GoBills808 Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Lurker said: 0.00001% of NFL QBs? Buy me a lottery ticket, won't you... At least he gave you a couple of examples. You gonna come up with a list of rookie QBs who were going to be good but got ruined by having to start too soon on a bad team? Doubt it. To name a few more guys who started as rookies with a below average offensive line and not a ton of help at WR: Wilson. Newton. Matt Ryan. Dalton (Green was a rookie). Luck. Roethlisberger had a nearly identical trajectory as Allen does now although with a much better offensive line. It's not unheard of. 2
GaryPinC Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 Good article, it's in-line with how Beane and McD positioned themselves in taking over this team. The one big fly in the ointment is trading AJ. We literally have no competent back up quarterback. Peterman was epically bad in his debut last year. Couldn't handle the pressure and doesn't have a good enough arm either. He shouldn't be in the NFL above the practice squad level. We're in dead money hell this year and have to suffer with a poor O-line and WR. Maybe that's all part of the plan. But if it is, a well thought out coach doesn't allow AJ to be dealt before NP and the O-line have proven themselves on some level in an actual game. Now, if Allen gets hurt, our already pathetic offense will collapse. If I were Daboll or McCoy, I'd be utterly pissed at the mess this offense has become.
BobChalmers Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: At least he gave you a couple of examples. You gonna come up with a list of rookie QBs who were going to be good but got ruined by having to start too soon on a bad team? You realize there is literally no way to know this, right? I believe David Carr was such an example, btw. I also believe Bills fans, far too many being complete fools, will run Allen out of town on a rail if he doesn't succeed, and won't cut him any slack at all for the weak team he has to work with.
GoBills808 Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 1 minute ago, BobChalmers said: You realize there is literally no way to know this, right? I believe David Carr was such an example, btw. I also believe Bills fans, far too many being complete fools, will run Allen out of town on a rail if he doesn't succeed, and won't cut him any slack at all for the weak team he has to work with. Of course. That was the point. 1
BobChalmers Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, GaryPinC said: Good article, it's in-line with how Beane and McD positioned themselves in taking over this team. The one big fly in the ointment is trading AJ. We literally have no competent back up quarterback. Peterman was epically bad in his debut last year. Couldn't handle the pressure and doesn't have a good enough arm either. He shouldn't be in the NFL above the practice squad level. We're in dead money hell this year and have to suffer with a poor O-line and WR. Maybe that's all part of the plan. But if it is, a well thought out coach doesn't allow AJ to be dealt before NP and the O-line have proven themselves on some level in an actual game. Now, if Allen gets hurt, our already pathetic offense will collapse. If I were Daboll or McCoy, I'd be utterly pissed at the mess this offense has become. This is based on the very questionable premise that McCarron was any good. He lost out to Peterman AND Allen for a good reason. They wanted Bradford, they didn't get him - AJM was the best they could do and he really wasn't worth having. 2
keepthefaith Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Idandria said: I love this from the article: “Peterman pulled the rare Blutarsky (passer rating: zero-point-zero) in Baltimore. The performance served as an encore to his five-interception effort against the Chargers in his first career start last fall.” was it ever an an encore performance to a historically bad debut. And I agree, Peterman needs to be known as Blutarsky going forward. The Blutarsky line is really funny except if you're Nate.
Fadingpain Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Ayjent said: Come on any article that lauds the Star signing should be looked at a tad skeptically. It's not a bad article, but its certainly one of those pieces that they are trying to sell to demoralized fan base. The obvious issues are skirted over (like failure to address the O line in the draft or FA in a meaningful way - na 5th round pick and a couple of below average OL FAs doesn't really scream investment in protecting your investment at QB). Even if you buy into the Tyrod point of view in the article, the fact remains that they could have signed Bridgewater at the level of 6 mil/yr or kept McCarron as a substantial investment in having the luxury to sit Allen if he wasn't ready in their eyes. Then the cap issues are kind of glossed over on how a team cap strapped created even more dead cap with a couple of their moves this offseason. I'm not totally sure why folks who live on a Bills information message board 24/7 look to national media guys to give them answers about their team. We know more about the big picture than these writers do, even if we lack some of their contacts.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 Getting Allen through the accumulation of picks has zero to do with the fiasco of the Peterman Principle that McD and Beane are wholly responsible for.
oldmanfan Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 27 minutes ago, Lurker said: 0.00001% of NFL QBs? Buy me a lottery ticket, won't you... There are some guys that don't make it if you throw them in as rookies, like Carr and such. And some that do, like the two I mentioned. And a lot more on either side of the argument. It is not just 0.0001% of NFL QBs that started as rookies and flamed out because of it. Perhaps the most direct recent example is Wentz. Came from a small school, was supposed to sit his rookie year and watch, but because of injury to Bradford got thrown in there. And he did fine. It will come down to the talent Allen has, and the intestinal fortitude he has. As to the latter, he doesn't strike me as the type that will fold under pressure. 8 minutes ago, BobChalmers said: You realize there is literally no way to know this, right? I believe David Carr was such an example, btw. I also believe Bills fans, far too many being complete fools, will run Allen out of town on a rail if he doesn't succeed, and won't cut him any slack at all for the weak team he has to work with. Just for fun let's count the number of posts saying he's a bust when he throws his first pick. 14 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: At least he gave you a couple of examples. You gonna come up with a list of rookie QBs who were going to be good but got ruined by having to start too soon on a bad team? Doubt it. To name a few more guys who started as rookies with a below average offensive line and not a ton of help at WR: Wilson. Newton. Matt Ryan. Dalton (Green was a rookie). Luck. Roethlisberger had a nearly identical trajectory as Allen does now although with a much better offensive line. It's not unheard of. Shhh. Facts are dangerous.
BillsFan4 Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said: I get what you're saying and had the same suspicion. On the other hand, I disagree with the critics who call Beane and McD "clueless" and the like. It's easy to see there's a rational plan behind all their moves. An effective plan? We'll see. I don't agree with every move Beane's made either. But there's real logic and football acumen at work. Agreed. I think they are far from clueless, and I think they have a clear plan + vision for this team (which is more than I can say for most of the previous regimes). I know that many around here really seem to have turned on them after last Sunday. But I am still a big fan of McDermott. This year was was always going to be a struggle, with the crazy amount of dead cap space and likely struggles of a rookie QB. I have high hopes for the future, though. 4
DC Tom Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 Except I'm not worried as much for Allen's confidence behind this line as I am for his physical health. 1
oldmanfan Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 16 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Never said he did. I was just saying that it sounds like he had a conversation with McDermott or Beane, where they explained their thinking on this season and some of the decisions they’ve made. I feel like Some of the stuff in that article clearly came at the direction of, or from a discussion with, Beane and/or McDermott. Your words, not mine.
Ayjent Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Of course! Terry P probably slipped Breer $100G under the table and asked him to write an article to instill faith for the fans. If SI wanted to sell an article and and get the most hits, they'd write an article ripping the Bills for all the moves. That's a crowded market right now, isn't it? A different take is to provide a positive perspective for those who are tired of the local and national media beating up their team. It's working. I never suggested anything was influenced by OBD, just saying that they have a market for positive Bills news in saturated bad news Bills market.
GoBills808 Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Getting Allen through the accumulation of picks has zero to do with the fiasco of the Peterman Principle that McD and Beane are wholly responsible for. Peterman is just a mini-fiasco imo. He was a 5th round pick. He played poorly in two games, both losses. We kept him over AJ McCarron. I'm not terribly upset over the whole Peterman thing if truth be told as long as it's in the past. 1
Mr. WEO Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: And some aren't. HOFers like Aikman and P Manning. Don't play Allen.....you'll RUIN him!!
BillsFan4 Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I feel like Some of the stuff in that article clearly came at the direction of, or from a discussion with, Beane and/or McDermott. Your words, not mine. You are right. That’s what I said. But also notice the “or from a discussion with” part. I guess i could have been more clear on what I meant. I wasn’t saying that they directed/forced him to write that article, as you seemed to imply. I was saying that maybe they called him up and discussed their thinking with him in order to help get their message out to the fans. Or maybe he wrote the article because of a conversation he had with them. Stuff like that happens all the ime. All I meant is that the way the article was written, it seemed to me that some of the info may have come from a Bills source. Edited September 13, 2018 by BillsFan4
Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Peterman is just a mini-fiasco imo. He was a 5th round pick. He played poorly in two games, both losses. We kept him over AJ McCarron. I'm not terribly upset over the whole Peterman thing if truth be told as long as it's in the past. Well he did last three minutes and thirty-eight seconds longer than the last fiasco! So there is progress! Either that or maybe McD is getting more stupider.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Peterman is just a mini-fiasco imo. He was a 5th round pick. He played poorly in two games, both losses. We kept him over AJ McCarron. I'm not terribly upset over the whole Peterman thing if truth be told as long as it's in the past. Sometimes a god-fearing man needs to recognize when a temptation is too strong to resist and remove the temptation from their life. As long as NP is on the roster I'm nervous as heck that McD will continue to have random outbursts of incompetence. 1
oldmanfan Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: You are right. That’s what I said. But also notice the “or from a discussion with” part. I guess i could have been more clear on what I meant. I wasn’t saying that they directed/forced him to write that article, as you seemed to imply. I was saying that maybe they called him up and discussed their thinking with him in order to help get their message out to the fans. Or maybe he wrote the article because of a conversation he had with them. Stuff like that happens all the ime. All I meant is that the way the article was written, it seemed to me that some of the info may have come from a Bills source. Gotcha. I think the article is pretty much exactly where McD was coming from. The kid gets his shot. Interesting about his take on the Cinci pre-season game. If anyone up front had decided to play in that game, maybe Allen starts last week and this whole debate would have been moot. 1
GoBills808 Posted September 13, 2018 Posted September 13, 2018 1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Sometimes a god-fearing man needs to recognize when a temptation is too strong to resist and remove the temptation from their life. As long as NP is on the roster I'm nervous as heck that McD will continue to have random outbursts of incompetence. So Peterman is the apple and McD is Adam...I suppose that makes Beane Eve and BullBuchanan the devil.
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