MAJBobby Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Idandria said: It was a weird play in Arizona where the safety blitzed and was totally unblocked. Had Trent not been a rookie, maybe he would have picked it up. A QB with experience sees these things coming. A rookie may not, and can get blasted as a result. And actually wasnt ruined by it but it is a simple excuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelius Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I think you can ruin a rookie QB, but I don't agree that playing a rookie QB early ruins them at all. Hell, start that rookie Day 1. Not everybody has a Favre/Rodgers situation. Making a rookie learn the job early, like any job really, is not a death sentence. The over-achievers will prosper. What I do think ruins them is the indecisiveness and paranoia from coaching staffs/owners/whatever that causes rookie QBs to get pulled two games after you start them. Who then start them again two games later, and then rinse, repeat, etc. That seems more reserved for project QBs taken too early (EJ, Kizer), and it just does not seem to ever work out. Allen is raw, but is not a project QB. He's an A+ ideal mold of a prototypical 2018 QB, so you just can't pull him after starting him in fears of ruining his mental. You need to just keep running him out there at this point. That shouldn't ruin him if he's a true #1, but the horrible injuries that he may sustain behind this line definitely could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) Was Goff ruined getting sacked 4 times a day his rookie year And looking all around like trash? or Wentz? What about Watson ruined because of the knee inj, or what about to good Carr? Edited September 13, 2018 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelius Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Was Goff ruined getting sacked 4 times a day his rookie year And looking all around like trash? or Wentz? What about Watson ruined because of the knee inj, or what about to good Carr? No, no, no, and no. All good points. If you have anybody talented that plays anywhere near a real #1 then you run them out. I was honestly surprised that Peterman even started week 1, but better somewhat late than never I guess. Starting talented rookie QBs is more the norm right now than the whole sit, wait, and cultivate idea that seems to be so popular but yet has really only successfully happened like three times in NFL history. Constant fortune only shines upon Satan worshipping freaks like Robert Kraft. You rarely have a Tom Brady sitting in your stable who has learned for 2 or 3 years and is just ready to go, coach! You all remember Charlie Whitehurst? It felt like that guy was cultivated to be the next #1 QB for something like a decade and it never panned out. Waiting is not always the best idea. Add Trubisky to that start immediately list, who actually looks to have taken a step forward this year. Edited September 13, 2018 by Nelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, aceman_16 said: David Carr waves hello (after his record breaking 76 sack rookie season). David Carr sucked. Did anyone actually watch David Carr? Or is he just conveniently trotted out to make a point you agree with? I see all these people talking about David Carr but I know you weren't watching the expansion Texans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, Nelius said: No, no, no, and no. All good points. If you have anybody talented that plays anywhere near a real #1 then you run them out. I was honestly surprised that Peterman even started week 1, but better somewhat late than never I guess. Starting talented rookie QBs is more the norm right now than the whole sit, wait, and cultivate idea that seems to be so popular but yet has really only successfully happened like three times in NFL history. Constant fortune only shines upon Satan worshipping freaks like Robert Kraft. You rarely have a Tom Brady sitting in your stable who has learned for 2 or 3 years and is just ready to go, coach! You all remember Charlie Whitehurst? It felt like that guy was cultivated to be the next #1 QB for something like a decade and it never panned out. Waiting is not always the best idea. Add Trubisky to that start immediately list, who actually looks to have taken a step forward this year. It just goes back to the old thinking of these NFL types. There is such little innovation in this league. Instead the old thinking types dominate this league and people absolutely love them for some reason. I guess it is because it is what they have been told all their lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boludo Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Here are all the QBs that got drafted and immediately started week 1 of their rookie year. It contains half the starters in the league. You don't ruin young QBs - the bad ones sink, the good ones swim. 2008: Matt Ryan (1st round) Joe Flacco (1st round) 2009: Matthew Stafford (1st overall) Mark Sanchez (1st round) 2010: Sam Bradford (1st overall) 2011: Cam Newton (1st overall) Andy Dalton (2nd round) 2012: Andrew Luck (1st overall) Robert Griffin III (1st round) Ryan Tannehill (1st round) Brandon Weeden (1st round) Russell Wilson (3rd round) 2013: EJ Manual (1st round) Geno Smith (2nd round) 2014: Derek Carr (2nd round) 2015: Jameis Winston (1st overall) Marcus Mariota (1st round) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said: David Carr sucked. Did anyone actually watch David Carr? Or is he just conveniently trotted out to make a point you agree with? I see all these people talking about David Carr but I know you weren't watching the expansion Texans. Wait what you mean his 4.9 sacks didnt ruin him. Goff only had 4 sacks a game so that is a entire .9 sacks more. It obviously ruined the bad carr. Sarcasm off 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 35 minutes ago, Idandria said: It was a weird play in Arizona where the safety blitzed and was totally unblocked. Had Trent not been a rookie, maybe he would have picked it up. A QB with experience sees these things coming. A rookie may not, and can get blasted as a result. And from that point decided he could never throw down field? That's a weird symptom of a concussion. It's far more likely the league got tape on him and took away the little he could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, aceman_16 said: David Carr waves hello (after his record breaking 76 sack rookie season). How does his 4.9 sacks a game ruin him BUT Goffs 4.0 sacks a game DONT ruin him? ? 1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said: And from that point decided he could never throw down field? That's a weird symptom of a concussion. It's far more likely the league got tape on him and took away the little he could do. Ding ding ding. He was a Third round pick for a reason. But people love thinking he was on his way to being the next Montana before that hit, because Walsh said so, but the reality is he was playing like a 3rd round pick and the league caught up to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, TonyBeets said: David Carr is the only QB I feel was ruined. In recent times anyway. Carr is the perfect example. Played behind a terrible oline his rookie year and it destroyed him. I just don't want to see Josh Allen suffer the same fate. God I wish we signed a good veteran quarterback rather than stick with Peterman or McCarron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Carr is the perfect example. Played behind a terrible oline his rookie year and it destroyed him. I just don't want to see Josh Allen suffer the same fate. God I wish we signed a good veteran quarterback rather than stick with Peterman or McCarron. Why did his 4.9 sacks a rookie season ruin him but Goff 4.0 sacks a game roomie season didnt ruin him? more likely it was Carr wasnt that good and well goff is. Interesting huh? Edited September 13, 2018 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostwriter Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Typically coaches get 3 years, if even the best QB gets stuck with a moron coach, yes they can get ruined, look at Andrew Luck, his career would be vastly different with say Sean McVay as his head coach. Luck's career was almost ruined and he is a generational prospect, most QBs aren't good enough to overcome what he has.. If McD and Daboll are morons, Allen will likely bust, only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelius Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said: Carr is the perfect example. Played behind a terrible oline his rookie year and it destroyed him. I just don't want to see Josh Allen suffer the same fate. God I wish we signed a good veteran quarterback rather than stick with Peterman or McCarron. But on the other hand David Carr is also the best real chance that the Raiders have had since friggin' Gannon. 15 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 rookie QBs are 3-4 years older than LeBron James was when he made his NBA debut. There's no need to coddle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 no. I don't believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) Coaches will seemingly do anything to protect a QB's confidence. Pete Carroll apparently traded, cut, or didn't re-sign several veteran members of the Seahawks this off season because they dared to question Russell Wilson. Countless teams over the years have held their rookie QBs back from starting in order to not expose them to the potential of immediate failure or adversity before they were ready, including the Browns, Cards, and up until Peterman crapping the bed, the Bills, this year. Clearly the NFL thinks you can ruin QBs. Sometimes sports leagues have medieval thinking. I don't think this is one of those times. Edited September 13, 2018 by VW82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Jim Kelly was sacked a whopping 153 times in his first 3 pro seasons. 75 in his first USFL year. Adversity simply reveals the quality of the player, it doesn’t change it. You can’t ruin a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I remember Jim Kelly getting manhandled by the Jets d-line his first start. He turned out okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceman_16 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 53 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: How does his 4.9 sacks a game ruin him BUT Goffs 4.0 sacks a game DONT ruin him? ? 'Cause 4.9 is basically 25% more than 4? And btw.... 25% more is significant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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