Nobody should be doubting Beane or McDermott

[COTC]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...I must have missed something......on their first drive, Ravens moved down the damn field faster than Grant took Richmond....shouldn't that be on Frazier?.......who I still don;t think did squat in the pre-season about the Run D getting gashed badly...no Daboll creativity as in try anything?......Castillo's rock solid OL again?.....hard to watch guys like McVay (CREDIT to Wade as his DC) or Pederson get "it" in their respective 2nd years as HC's (and they don't clap clap clap).....it's too often and "OBDitis" fault....pretty sure one of Moo-Larkey's clubs still holds the team record for most scores on opening drives......come 2nd half adjustments, they got smoked faster than a pork shoulder butt............

Good post.  Low and slow baby!!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I will continue to doubt anyone who sees Nathan Peterman as an NFL QB.

 

...just baffling....guy looks good in TC as well as pre-season (granted they're rubber bullets)....go "live ammo" in the real deal and the guy collapses.........

[Peter]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

SoCo, the point some others see is that Beane's choices CREATED the dead cap situation that is now being used as a rationale to excuse other actions/lack of action.

 

Those may have been good choices, they may have been hard but necessary choices, or they may have been poor choices, but they are choices, and can be questioned, and in view of other decisions questioned. 

 

For example, they held a fire sale on Dareus and created $13.5M dead cap; then they signed 29 year old Star Lotulelei to a 5 year, $50M contract with a $6.7M cap hit this year. 

One viewpoint would be they traded a younger player who has shown more talent, for a long-term investment in an older, lesser talent.  Maybe it was a good move, or a necessary move, but can you see that it kind of isn't logically consistent with the idea of lacking the cap space to do anything this past year, AND with needing to get younger?

 

They created the situation that is now being used to excuse them.  Maybe it's a necessary situation, but the point is, the brutal dead cap and the limited cap space for FA this year are the result of situations they chose.

 

 

Yep.

 

This is kind of like the kid who kills his parents and then asks for the court's mercy because he is an "orphan."

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, One Buffalo said:

This pretty much says my point of view... 

 

 

 

 

 

And it's a point of view worth expressing, and may prove right over time.

 

But there are other points of view; it's not "beyond doubt" as a viewpoint

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, COTC said:

Good post.  Low and slow baby!!

 

...LMAO!......just got my new Camp Chef pellet smoker.....did brisket, ribs and bacon wrapped chicken breasts.....even had room left for Peterman if he preferred "non-contact smoked".....

[Heitz]

Just because some don't like or get the plan current management has, doesn't mean it's bad / wrong.  

 

Might be, might not be, we gonna find out...

[Augie]

Well, this has gone over about as I expected.  ?

Edited September 11, 2018 by Augie

[LEE1]

A lot of you make some interesting points. They do have a plan in place a plan they’ve been scheming since the regime change. They can stay the coarse that’s not the problem their long term plan might even pan out. But they knew and had ample time to address the monkey wrench that got thrown into their plans. Losing 2 starting OL and doing little to address it because it doesn’t go along with the PLAN is unacceptable and naive. But what’s done is done very little can be done to change it now. They have to make the necessary adjustments on offense to compensate. 2 rookie QB’s a weak OL so far unproductive WR’s. Simplify the offense quit running the offense under center use more screens and short passes. That takes pressure of inexperienced QB’s keeps defenses honest and opens up the run game. The Bills are in no way down and out like so many are saying. They don’t even have to change that long term plan just their strategy.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said:

They had plenty of time to adjust to the best 60% of the starting OL leaving. (not enough time left to scout is SO LAME)

Honestly, the OL was not good last year either (or the last 20 years for that matter).

Tyrod/McCoy made them LOOK serviceable because they were quick scramblers.

OL should have been majorly addressed. Been saying it for 20 years... but especially after losing those 3 guys. 

 

 

Glenn wasn’t much of a factor last season - the other two yes...

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

Well, this has gone over about as I expected.  ?

 

...depressing if it did NOT, right?............

[B Fan in LA]

2 hours ago, SoCoBills said:

These guys have a plan. Unfortunately though sometimes plans can be thrown off the rails by uncontrollable occurrences and even the best laid plans burn to ashes. 

 

I believe Beane and McD are constantly evaluating & constantly looking to improve the team but not at the expense of the bigger picture. If we have Wood & Incognito I think we are worlds better than we are right now. I think that makes our offense immediately competent. It’s eye opening to discover exactly how important the big guys along the inside of your OL are when you don’t have any good ones isn’t it?

 

McD botched the season with some terrible moves.

The perfect QB for this disastrous OLine is TT, and they gave him away for a 4th round pick.

Allen could've watched and learned from a seasoned vet for the whole season.

 

Those guys are dopes, IMHO.

 

[One Buffalo]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

And it's a point of view worth expressing, and may prove right over time.

 

But there are other points of view; it's not "beyond doubt" as a viewpoint

 

True...  I have resigned myself to a miserable year this year, which means we will see lots of "sky is falling" chicken little's around here.  That is not to say that all criticism is unwarranted.  McBeane shouldn't get a free pass entirely, but I am of the mind that a year from now is when they should really start to be held to account.  Right now they are still laying the foundation, which includes digging out the old to make way for the new, painful and ugly work. A year from now we should be seeing the above ground product that can and should be critiqued.   

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...depressing if it did NOT, right?............

 

I’m almost numb to depression after Sunday. I mean.......REALLY? We waited all year for.....THAT? 

[GreggTX]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said:

They had plenty of time to adjust to the best 60% of the starting OL leaving. (not enough time left to scout is SO LAME)

Honestly, the OL was not good last year either (or the last 20 years for that matter).

Tyrod/McCoy made them LOOK serviceable because they were quick scramblers.

OL should have been majorly addressed. Been saying it for 20 years... but especially after losing those 3 guys. 

 

So what other positions should they not have addressed in order to address multiple weaknesses on the OL? QB? MLB? CB? DT? DE?

[Aussie Joe]

12 minutes ago, B Fan in LA said:

 

McD botched the season with some terrible moves.

The perfect QB for this disastrous OLine is TT, and they gave him away for a 4th round pick.

Allen could've watched and learned from a seasoned vet for the whole season.

 

Those guys are dopes, IMHO.

 

 

4th Round?

 

It was the first pick in the 3rd Round... at the time a lot of experts here said that he was not worth anything and they would have to cut him..

 

[Ayjent]

6 minutes ago, One Buffalo said:

 

True...  I have resigned myself to a miserable year this year, which means we will see lots of "sky is falling" chicken little's around here.  That is not to say that all criticism is unwarranted.  McBeane shouldn't get a free pass entirely, but I am of the mind that a year from now is when they should really start to be held to account.  Right now they are still laying the foundation, which includes digging out the old to make way for the new, painful and ugly work. A year from now we should be seeing the above ground product that can and should be critiqued.   

I get the patience and understand it, but the evidence is starting to mount and I'm afraid the results aren't going to be much better next year.  I don't understand what all the cap space is going to do for the Bills other than get them into more bad contracts.

[Dr. K]

53 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

SoCo, the point some others see is that Beane's choices CREATED the dead cap situation that is now being used as a rationale to excuse other actions/lack of action.

 

Those may have been good choices, they may have been hard but necessary choices, or they may have been poor choices, but they are choices, and can be questioned, and in view of other decisions questioned. 

 

For example, they held a fire sale on Dareus and created $13.5M dead cap; then they signed 29 year old Star Lotulelei to a 5 year, $50M contract with a $6.7M cap hit this year. 

One viewpoint would be they traded a younger player who has shown more talent, for a long-term investment in an older, lesser talent.  Maybe it was a good move, or a necessary move, but can you see that it kind of isn't logically consistent with the idea of lacking the cap space to do anything this past year, AND with needing to get younger?

 

They created the situation that is now being used to excuse them.  Maybe it's a necessary situation, but the point is, the brutal dead cap and the limited cap space for FA this year are the result of situations they chose.

 

Precisely. 

[BuffaloBillies]

4 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

So what other positions should they not have addressed in order to address multiple weaknesses on the OL? QB? MLB? CB? DT? DE?

 

Personally, I was a trade down guy last year and will be again next year. Too many needs. Need multiple top-3 round talents on OL (as well as the other positions you list). Getting just one 5th round OL every year (for example) does not build a line. Need to totally invest in OL since it's been grossly ignored for a very long time. At one time, I think we had 6 picks in the top 3 rounds last year before the trades (is that right?). Would have been a good time to get 3 top-3 round linemen. Every position's important, obviously... just seems like OL is always an afterthought. Just my opinion, but I think OL is the most important position group on the team.

[oldmanfan]

They hopefully have the leaders of their offense and defense after last year's draft.  Now what?  

 

I recall all listening to Polian once explaining how he puts a team together.  He said you have to decide what positions you felt were essential, and that's where you spend your money.  His as I recall were QB, LT, WR, rush DE, and CB.  The rest you fill in as you can.

 

Given that, Beane and McD and their positions?  I think QB and MLB.  Got them, hopefully.  LT?  Should have that in Dawkins.  CB?  White.  They need a good pass rushing DE.  They need a good WR.  

 

If they go by a similar mindset to Polian, they need to fill in the D line, O line.  I personally disagree; I'd invest more in lines.  But the problem this year is the guys they use as O linemen aren't good enough.

 

So next year, lot of cap space, lot of draft picks.  Should be able to address a lot of needs.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

So what other positions should they not have addressed in order to address multiple weaknesses on the OL? QB? MLB? CB? DT? DE?

 

C'mon Gregg, there are always different ways of accomplishing a task.  People want to take a snapshot at a particular point in time and then say "well what else should they have done?" but it's not that simple.

 

We had some of those weaknesses because we let the players walk when we could have re-signed them on quite reasonable contracts (EJ Gaines, Preston Brown) or traded them for peanuts and assumed a lot of dead cap (Dareus, plus additional cap to sign Star) or traded them for picks (Darby, Watkins, Taylor)

 

Maybe those were all necessary or wise moves, but it's totally fair to point out that we were bandaging self-induced wounds, and that the choices we made reflected the team's priorities - on which OL was either near the bottom, or mis-perceived as having been adequately addressed by the additions of Ducasse, Bodine, and Newhouse.