McBeane's way of rebuilding makes no sense

[Laughing Coffin]

Some of us here make it sound like we were lush with talent all over the field in 2016. 

 

But the fact of the matter is, aside from Beane dumping a few players, this team was already garbage heading into 2017.

Dareus / Darby I agree with those 2 players definitely. We could have kept Dareus and dealt with a lot less dead cap situation after next year, we are eating his cap space anyways still and we could have had him on the field for the same price we're paying not to have him here, and he would have likely kept our interior DL respectable until then. As far as our CB2 position, it's in absolute shambles, so the Darby deal was not good in my opinion either.

Maybe not resigning Robert Woods/Marquise Goodwin, but those were decisions made by Whaley/McDermott. Can't blame them on Goodwin, he was always a tad banged up, just got hurt again after a promising 2017 campaign where he came out relatively unscathed. The best ability is availability, after all. Robert Woods seemed like a "process" guy I'm surprised we didn't throw 7 mil his way per year. Whenever he was listed as questionable on the IR he was likely going to be out there on the field, seemed like a guy who wanted to just play football

So unless I'm missing anyone from the 2016 Bills, our "roster of talent" equates to 2-3 guys (4 if you want to count Sammy, who's done nothing to warrant getting 16 mil a year so far) that we should have kept in their respectful spots, and built around them instead of creating holes that we still haven't filled. Not to mention we had 2 starting OL retire/go mental.

Tyrod masked our OL issues a lot more than most give him credit for, this team did not belong at 9-7 last year, especially our team the 2nd half of the year, soon as we dealt Dareus we started to get GASHED in the run game.  It was glaringly obvious how important he was at clogging the middle. If we would have played to our roster's talent on paper, our team likely was a 5-11 6-10 team that would have been lush with picks in this most recent draft.  We would have been able to sit at our position and drafted Allen, keeping the rest of our day 2 picks.

[Buftex]

I am not a Beane/McDermot hater, but I think the roster they inherited was much better than what we have now.  I realize, this is a work in progress, and I am hopeful they build something better than what they are trying to replace...but they aren't there yet.  In my opinion, Rex Ryan and his coaching staff were the biggest obstacle to the Bills success.

[Laughing Coffin]

2 minutes ago, Buftex said:

I am not a Beane/McDermot hater, but I think the roster they inherited was much better than what we have now.  I realize, this is a work in progress, and I am hopeful they build something better than what they are trying to replace...but they aren't there yet.  In my opinion, Rex Ryan and his coaching staff were the biggest obstacle to the Bills success.

 

There's turnover for every roster every NFL season.  We were 3 years younger in 2015-2016, we had Lorenzo Alexander in a scheme where he had a great year, now he's an outlier.  When there's consistent holes to fill each season, and our GM Doug Whaley was unable to get quality players to help with the natural turnover rate, a team's roster will of course degrade.

[Virgil]

Robert Woods should have been resigned.  His contract is a bargain and he’s really shown what he can do with a QB. 

 

Dareus I’m torn on.  He wasn’t motivated and didn’t fit the process. But isn’t that a coaches job to motivate and reach players. 

 

Darby makes no sense to me still.  Especially with our current DB situation and the style we run. 

 

Nothing could be done about the O-Line situation.  There weren’t any FA’s and we filled other positions of need with picks.  It sucks and was unexpected. 

 

The money we spent on Murphy and Star is the biggest question for me.  If we don’t get a pass rush going or plug the run, we just wasted 20 mil. 

[Laughing Coffin]

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

Robert Woods should have been resigned.  His contract is a bargain and he’s really shown what he can do with a QB. 

 

Dareus I’m torn on.  He wasn’t motivated and didn’t fit the process. But isn’t that a coaches job to motivate and reach players. 

 

Darby makes no sense to me still.  Especially with our current DB situation and the style we run. 

 

Nothing could be done about the O-Line situation.  There weren’t any FA’s and we filled other positions of need with picks.  It sucks and was unexpected. 

 

The money we spent on Murphy and Star is the biggest question for me.  If we don’t get a pass rush going or plug the run, we just wasted 20 mil. 

 

 

Yes Star is/will be proven as an awful use of 50 mil over 5 years. And we're essentially stuck with him through 2020, where then we can dump him with only a 5 mil dead cap hit.  If we were to dump him in 2019, he'd cost nearly 8 mil in dead cap, and with his salary being a bit over 10 mil that year, it just makes sense to keep him even if he's rotational depth.  What a nightmare.

 

Murphy's contract is much more friendly, and we can dump him after this season for a measly 3.5 mil dead cap hit, or the year after for a 1.75 mil cap hit.  He was coming off a strong 2016 campaign and unfortunately got hurt last year before the season, it was a calculated gamble that I don't hate.  I'd actually like to see us do something similar with CB Jason Verrett from the chargers, who has been snakebit by back to back year ending injuries (achilles and ACL).  I'd bring him in on a similar Trent Murphy deal situation.

[apuszczalowski]

They had much more "talent" on the roster when they took over

 

They now have much more "potential talent"

[26CornerBlitz]

McBeane 1

[mead107]

10 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Seems McBeane is intent on gutting this roster of players from the Whaley regime and doing a full blown rebuild. I have no problems with doing a rebuild, but the way they are doing it makes absolutely no sense. Moving up and wasting draft picks on two players in the first round this past year was not a smart move. If the Bills are going to be at the top of the draft in 2019, then they could have drafted their QB of the future then instead of what they gave up for Allen. It's too early to tell if Allen and Edmunds will pan out. Both guys have the physical size and traits to be very successful. I am glad that McBeane is trying to address the QB position, because it's been neglected for way too long. Maybe McBeane liked the QB's in this draft class better than the 2019 draft class...who knows. I just think it's not a smart move to use up all these picks when there are so many holes to fill on the team. O-linemen take time to develop, so I think it would have been good for the Bills to use some of this draft capital and address the O-line early. I think building up the lines on both side of the ball first should be a teams priority.

 

It seems McBeane's FA pick ups/trades have been more misses than hits. Now, if these players McBeane are signing are just "stop-gap" players, then that's one thing, but if they're being counted on to be impact players, then McBeane has really screwed up. Vontae Davis, Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy, Kelvin Benjamin, Corey Coleman, Jordan Matthews...not an impressive list of players. Seems McBeane was hoping somebody on the D-line would be free to get to the QB with Lotulelei clogging up the middle, but so far this preseason and in Week 1, it hasn't come to fruition. If Lotulelei doesn't pan out, that could be more dead cap money if he gets cut or traded. 

So you have all the answers?  What team do you work for ??????? 

[Doc Brown]

It's tough to evaluate receivers when you have Tyrod Taylor throwing them the ball as we can see with the play of Woods and Goodwin since leaving.  

[34-78-83]

1 hour ago, Heitz said:

 

Best article I've seen on what the Bills are trying to build - not everyone thinks it makes no sense...

 

Very few actually think it makes no sense. It's just a loud vocal minority. Of course it makes sense. It will still depend on a few things that are somewhat out of their control, like Allen living up to his potential.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I’m not buying McDermott’s sob story about inheriting a bad team that needed new culture. 

 

Hey Beane, it’s 2018, might want to do better than Chris Ivory and Jeremy Kerley.

[apuszczalowski]

their problem is they have decided to take a risky approach that involves alot of time and patience and may or may not work out.

In todays era of sports, most GMs/coaches don't get that luxury of time to institute long/slow rebuild plans.

Especially if some results are not seen quickly or progress is not being made soon.

Some may have their owners support with a long/slow approach, but if things don't start getting better soon, they lose that owners support and are looking for new jobs.

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's tough to evaluate receivers when you have Tyrod Taylor throwing them the ball as we can see with the play of Woods and Goodwin since leaving.  

Disagree, around here people thought Woods was a good WR, specifically a #2 WR though who would most likely get #1 WR money. As for Goodwin, the belief around here was that he just couldn't stay healthy to be on the field and wanted to be an olympic track star more then NFL WR so his heart wasn't into putting in the work here

[2ForMacAdoo]

3 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Whaley was awful.  He was only the most recent in  a string of truly horrible GMs.  Beane inherited a complete mess. Given how late he was hired last year, there was not more for him to do than assess the team.   He made the judgment the team wasn't never going far with Taylor at QB ( a judgement any sane human could make) .  He made similar evaluations of everyone on the team. His ultimate conclusion was for better or worse that there was nothing to build around.  A couple of old guys in Kyle Williams and LeSean McCoy that are fan favorites who are too old be be part of a long term future. And after that: nothing.  So he decided to come up with the strategy of  clearing the deck for 2019 and starting from scratch.  The only two players on the roster who matter at this point are Edmunds and Allen.  Everyone else will be replaced with a draft pick or a free agent pickup from next years 90 million of cap space.   The over all vision makes sense. 

 

The thing that is most distressing is that his cronyism with guys like Benjamin and Star L.  call his judgement into question.  If 2019 is a playoff year, then the strategy  made sense.  If it is some sort of babystep from an abysmal 2018 to a slightly better 2019, then It is 95% likely he is just the latest clown in the Bills GM clown show. 

Edmunds and Allen, yes but please, please don't call Tre' davious chopped liver. That boy Tre day can play. And dance too. That dude is a keeper. Those 3 guys are our future. Period.

[Ayjent]

9 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

 

I get so tired of this argument. 

Many of the best QBs in NFL history were drafted to the WORST franchises in the league.  Bad O-Lines.  Bad receivers.  No running game.

 

If you have the chance to draft a franchise QB (especially on a team that hasn't had one in 20 years), you don't ask questions.  YOU DO IT!!!!

 

What if Beane had kept those 2018 picks, and used them to upgrade the O-Line and WR corps instead?  Then we get to the 2019 Draft with the #1 Pick.... and all of the prospects are terrible.  Or maybe we are drafting at #2 or #3 overall and there is only one good QB available. 

 

For all the b!+ching about roster management, the Bills have a potentially VERY STRONG foundation to build the future team on.  Quarterback (Allen), Left Tackle (Dawkins), Middle Linebacker (Edmunds) and Cornerback (White).  If those guys work out, we could be set for a very long time.

 

 

 

Okay best QBs in the league right now?

 

Brady - started playing on a playoff calibre team taking over for injured Drew Bledsoe

Big Ben - team around him was very good and could really protect him and overcome his mistakes (although he didn't make that many)

Aaron Rodgers - took over for Brett Favre on a pretty good team, not great, but didn't walk into a mess.

Drew Brees - a worse situation than all of the above and didn't really show much in his first year - by the time the Chargers drafted Rivers, Brees was playing pretty well - not to mention they also drafted Ladanian Tomlinson the same year as Brees and had a decent line.

*Philip Rivers - I'm a lot lower on Rivers than many people, mainly because he's done nothing when it matters to get any accolades and he puts up good numbers but doesn't really play as good as his numbers.  But he had LT in his prime, a good line and a lot of weapons in place when he became starter.

Russel Wilson - great defense, good running game, and solid line

Matt Ryan - Had a good team around him, good WRs, good RBs, solid line (Went 11-5)

Cam Newton - Had Steve Smith, good RBs, and a serviceable line.

 

I could keep going, but the fact is that these goods are all bona fide good QBs in the league and they all had a much better situation than this.  There are guys that are just so good they do excel (Peyton Manning - and even he had Marshall Faulk and a GM that understood they needed OL and WRs to help their QB), but that is the exception and hardly any walk into this type of mess and succeed.  The recent young guys having success are coming out looking polished and playing well, with the exception of Goff who had to suffer one year with the worst HC you could have as a QB (Jeff Fisher).  I'm not necessary sold on Goff, but he is playing pretty decent and has a great offensive head coach that knows what he is doing on that side of the ball.   The Bills are basically the closest thing to the Rams situation with Goff, a conservative HC with a pretty barren team on Offense, other than a good RB, and a good defense (although I would argue that both sides of the Ball for the Rams were better in Goff's rookie year in terms of talent than the current Bills roster).   His situation drastically changed and so did his success. My point is that there is a much higher likelihood for guys to fail in bad situations than good and the best in the league usually start off in decent situations.  It definitely happens at times when guys succeed in bad situations and other fail in good situations, but the success stories are more frequent the better the situation.

 

Now Allen's situation has to get much better by next year too.  I'm not sure they are going to unearth the next great offensive mind to coach Allen, but the pocket book should be wide open to attract the very best OC they can that has shown he can develop the position.  But would that happen under Beane and McDermott?  Was Daboll really the guy they thought was the best OC for a new QB or was it a position they needed to fill knowing that they may be in the market again soon?  I don't know if I'd buy the latter with a straight face, because they knew they were getting a QB in the draft and they knew the other guy on the roster they were going to keep and liked was only a second year guy.  So they had a good idea that they would have a pretty inexperienced QB group - Daboll has to be their guy they think is best for this job. 

 

Seriously,  think about that for a minute - we are talking about a HC that is not an Offensive mind that is going to call plays, so this is Daboll's show - an unproven OC to coach unproven talent at QB who doesn't look like he had any say in the staff.  However, Daboll can't really get a fair shake with the talent, but if it is horribly inept as it appears it could be, will they make him a sacrificial lamb to the masses and search out a OC that is fully capable of improving Allen's situation at all costs?  Not really fair to Daboll unless they are just putrid - if you are any good, I suppose you can make it work to some degree with smoke and mirrors, but really that's not a pretty lineup out there.

 

Hell I'd rehire Anthony Lynn or Greg Roman in a heartbeat fair or not to a semi-unproven guy like Daboll (I guess you could still say Peterman is unproven too despite a couple of bad stints as a starter).  Lynn (who knows how patient they will be with him if they don't win this year) and Roman (OC would be a promotion for him) can get a lot out of marginally skilled players at QB and I'd love to see what they could do with a guy like Allen.  Norv Turner would be a great option (could possibly leave if the new ownership wants to start with a different staff and replace Rivera).  Someone innovative, someone who help define the development of a player, not be part of a greatest organization as an unremarkable replaceable part in a well oiled machine.  Daboll's success came with Alabama as co-OC and the Patriots as a positional coach, not much outside of the evil empires.   

 

They need to make some big moves outside of personnel, as well as with it.  But they've got to get it right ASAP.  I'm glad there are some people optomistic about the chances that they get it right.  My point is that they have to get a lot of things right and not miss on much to get this turned around - they better be really as good as they think they are by getting into themselves into this position.  The question is whether they knew this was the position they were getting into? 

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Ayjent

[ProcessAccepted]

44 minutes ago, Buftex said:

I am not a Beane/McDermot hater, but I think the roster they inherited was much better than what we have now.  I realize, this is a work in progress, and I am hopeful they build something better than what they are trying to replace...but they aren't there yet.  In my opinion, Rex Ryan and his coaching staff were the biggest obstacle to the Bills success.

 

They've cleared out a lot of the players that didn't fit their vision, now we just have to suffer through the dead cap hit this year. It won't be fun but it'll be alright.

 

The only thing that I really want to see this year is evidence that the current roster play improving. If the coaching staff can build that fight till the bitter end mentality we'll be in great shape when they start adding talent.

[BADOLBILZ]

44 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Nothing could be done about the O-Line situation.

 

Eh.

 

Still pretty sure the Cordy Glenn trade will be haunting them.

 

The Bengals only need to get a couple good seasons out of him to make it a worthwhile acquisition and my guess is he will still be a starting OT in the NFL in 2022 and he should be playing LT for the Bills now and Dawkins rightfully should be the LG or RT.........good LT's are very scarce.

 

They will likely have to spend a chip of equal or greater value to get his replacement and THEN go thru growing pains to develop that player for a couple years.

 

What Beane really needs is his heralded ALL STAR cast of personnel people to find some gems to fix some of the holes they've created........they've been very unproductive to this point, IMO.

 

 

[Best Player Available]

36 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's tough to evaluate receivers when you have Tyrod Taylor throwing them the ball as we can see with the play of Woods and Goodwin since leaving.  

Letting Woods walk a huge mistake. The guy is showing why in LA.

He is an exciting guy to watch in particular when he is a blocker. 

Allen could have used him. I think he resigned at about 8 million per year.

[THEHARDTRUTH]

8 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Do you feel better now?  I never said anyone had to be an expert.  Now get to your anger management class before you are late.

You manage to look dumber with every post. Good job.

[Aussie Joe]

Maybe Woods wanted to leave?

 

He was a free agent right?

 

 

[BillsFan4]

It was reported long before McDermott was hired, that the Bills weren’t even trying to negotiate a new deal with Woods. Not 100% sure of the reason.

But I did read that he wanted to go home to California (which is what ended up happening). It makes me think that maybe he wasn’t interested in re-signing here.