McBeane's way of rebuilding makes no sense

[All_Pro_Bills]

14 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

That’s true. If the Bills are going to be a bad team this year, I’d rather they finish last in the league and get the best draft pick. It’s going to take some time to do a rebuild, so they might as well do it the right way.

If we're indeed in Tank 2.0 the idea situation would be the Bills getting the 1st pick and a quarterback needy team finishing 2nd.  That would place higher value on the #1 pick because anybody wanting a QB would have to pay the price to jump in front of the 2nd spot.  That might yield a 2019 1st & 2020 1st plus some other picks but I'm getting way ahead of things as there are 15 games left.

 

I'm not ready to label Beane a failure or a success yet.  Some of his moves have been good and others not so much.  Overall, his drafts have been pretty good but his free agent pick ups not so good so far.  I didn't like the McCarron trade to the Raiders and the Coleman trade with the Browns was a total disaster.  Cleveland gets a pick, the Bills cut the guy and eat the cap hit, and now the Patriots sign the guy for close to nothing.  Maybe Beane should have gone the veteran QB route to get some solid experience in the QB room?  And unless you thought Dareus was going to fail another drug test and get hit with a one-year suspension dumping him to the Jags for a late round pick and creating a hole in the DL which he filled with an expensive free agent contract didn't thrill me either.  So net/net you improve nothing except maybe attitude which doesn't translate into tying up blockers or pressuring the passer.  The OL looks like another disaster. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

9 minutes ago, QCity said:

This isn't a remodel where they are just replacing the drywall. They are completely leveling the house and repouring the foundation. That foundation consists of players like Josh Allen and Tremaine Edwards, and right now there just isn't much built on top of them (yet).

 

He's building this house the exact way it should be built (whether fans understand this or not) -- through the draft. Unfortunately, it's going to take time. It's a waste of energy getting upset over 1-yr contract stop-gaps like Vonte Davis.

 

So while the knee-jerk crowd is out there having a conniption after each loss this year, know this -- if Beane is right about Allen, he's already the best GM we've had in the last 20 years.

 

not quite.

 

should have traded Tyrod last year so we didn't have to give up very valuable draft picks.

 

Otherwise we are right on track.

 

 

[Jerry Jabber]

34 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Getting a QB high was an absolute necessity. Far from making no sense, it was the only move that did make any sense, except maybe bringing in Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins.

 

Calling it a waste is missing the point. There are very very few ways to bring in a guy with a legitimate shot at being a franchise guy. When you have one of those chances you have to go for it even if it's expensive. They had to get a guy who might grow to become the franchise QB we've needed for so long. Unless they wanted our run of prolonged mediocrity/badness to continue.

 

And yeah, OLs take time to develop. So do QBs. But it's a hell of a lot easier to draft a good OL even if you're winning than it is to draft a good
QB.

 

And yes, moving up delayed filling the holes on the roster.

 

It's worth it. Same as in house construction, building a good strong, stable foundation delays the building of the walls and the installation of the plumbing and everything else, really. But it's necessary to build that strong foundation regardless of the delay. Same thing here. It's necessary to bring in a legitimate potential QB because it's almost impossible to get one when you have a good enough roster elsewhere to consistently win eight or nine games. You never get the chance to draft a potential franchise guy. This is the only way to get it done, and also the smart way.

 

If we're rebuilding as you say (I'm not sure I agree, but put that aside), then you have to keep understanding what a rebuild is. It's not something you do if you want to have a great chance to win the year you trade up and draft your QB. You are sacrificing the short term for the long term. Which is a great idea if the long term is very successful, and true rebuilds increase the chances of extreme success.

 

What was your prediction for the year? Did you think we'd win eight or nine or ten games? People who predicted a lot of wins this year weren't quite understanding how long it takes to build consistent success when you're switching schemes and the regime before you put you in awful salary cap shape.

I agree that taking a QB high in the draft is a necessity. It's something that previous Bills GM's should have done a long time ago. I disagree with how McBeane is going about the tear down and rebuild. Last year, McBeane tried to win now and do the rebuild, which IMO is counterproductive, It should be one or the other. If the intent was to take a QB high and get their QB of the defense [Edmunds], then they should have traded Tyrod Taylor last year and went with Nathan Peterman or some other journeyman last season. The Bills could have had a top 10 pick in the draft and only had to move up slightly (or not at all) in the draft to take Allen, plus kept more of their draft capital to pick better players. 

[Heitz]

13 minutes ago, COTC said:

and how about that punter with no game experience, didn’t he flub a snap and fumble, typical of someone with no field experience. Another bean head scratcher. 

 

You're digging deep if you want to the fault the punter for Sunday...clearly you're digging deep regardless I guess... o_O

[mjt328]

42 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Seems McBeane is intent on gutting this roster of players from the Whaley regime and doing a full blown rebuild. I have no problems with doing a rebuild, but the way they are doing it makes absolutely no sense. Moving up and wasting draft picks on two players in the first round this past year was not a smart move. If the Bills are going to be at the top of the draft in 2019, then they could have drafted their QB of the future then instead of what they gave up for Allen. It's too early to tell if Allen and Edmunds will pan out. Both guys have the physical size and traits to be very successful. I am glad that McBeane is trying to address the QB position, because it's been neglected for way too long. Maybe McBeane liked the QB's in this draft class better than the 2019 draft class...who knows. I just think it's not a smart move to use up all these picks when there are so many holes to fill on the team. O-linemen take time to develop, so I think it would have been good for the Bills to use some of this draft capital and address the O-line early. I think building up the lines on both side of the ball first should be a teams priority.

 

It seems McBeane's FA pick ups/trades have been more misses than hits. Now, if these players McBeane are signing are just "stop-gap" players, then that's one thing, but if they're being counted on to be impact players, then McBeane has really screwed up. Vontae Davis, Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy, Kelvin Benjamin, Corey Coleman, Jordan Matthews...not an impressive list of players. Seems McBeane was hoping somebody on the D-line would be free to get to the QB with Lotulelei clogging up the middle, but so far this preseason and in Week 1, it hasn't come to fruition. If Lotulelei doesn't pan out, that could be more dead cap money if he gets cut or traded. 

 

So from what I gather from this post, your biggest complaint is that Brandon Beane should have:

1.  Kept all of his picks in the 2018 draft

2.  Waited to draft his QB in 2019

 

Just for the moment, I will disregard the fact that Buffalo had the extra draft capital and opportunity to make the QB move this year (knowing for sure there was a prospect they really liked) - and that nobody has any clue what next year's draft order or prospect class will look like.

 

Instead, I will simply point out the fact that you (as a fan) are extremely upset about the Bills not fielding a competitive team in 2018... and your solution is that they should have pushed off the addition of their rookie QB until 2019 -- basically extending the rebuilding process past next season as well.

 

 

[Jerry Jabber]

6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

If we're indeed in Tank 2.0 the idea situation would be the Bills getting the 1st pick and a quarterback needy team finishing 2nd.  That would place higher value on the #1 pick because anybody wanting a QB would have to pay the price to jump in front of the 2nd spot.  That might yield a 2019 1st & 2020 1st plus some other picks but I'm getting way ahead of things as there are 15 games left.

 

I'm not ready to label Beane a failure or a success yet.  Some of his moves have been good and others not so much.  Overall, his drafts have been pretty good but his free agent pick ups not so good so far.  I didn't like the McCarron trade to the Raiders and the Coleman trade with the Browns was a total disaster.  Cleveland gets a pick, the Bills cut the guy and eat the cap hit, and now the Patriots sign the guy for close to nothing.  Maybe Beane should have gone the veteran QB route to get some solid experience in the QB room?  And unless you thought Dareus was going to fail another drug test and get hit with a one-year suspension dumping him to the Jags for a late round pick and creating a hole in the DL which he filled with an expensive free agent contract didn't thrill me either.  So net/net you improve nothing except maybe attitude which doesn't translate into tying up blockers or pressuring the passer.  The OL looks like another disaster. 

If that scenario pans out, then McBeane is a genius. 

[The_Dude]

Nothing about any of this makes sense. 

 

My bold prediction: Bills fans will want McDumbass fired by the end of the year. 

[ny33]

54 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

 

 

 

Agreed. Something that often gets overlooked is that the Bills traded too much for the 7th pick:

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/4/26/17288354/buffalo-bills-overpay-to-trade-up-for-josh-allen-draft-chart-jimmy-johnson-value

 

Arizona paid far less in the Rosen trade.

 

This wasn't a year where people were clamoring to trade up. We probably could have given up less and had enough resources to at least pick up a 2nd/3rd round lineman.

Edited September 11, 2018 by ny33

[Best Player Available]

27 minutes ago, COTC said:

 

It is def not too early to judge. 

 

Ignorance isnt an excuse. 

 

 

You.'re right it's not too early to judge. You're an idiot...

[oldmanfan]

28 minutes ago, COTC said:

 

It is def not too early to judge. 

 

Ignorance isnt an excuse. 

 

 

If you can't make any sense quit posting

[COTC]

4 minutes ago, Heitz said:

 

You're digging deep if you want to the fault the punter for Sunday...clearly you're digging deep regardless I guess... o_O

Naw man. This is shallow, just scratching the surface. 

[Jerry Jabber]

Just now, mjt328 said:

 

So from what I gather from this post, your biggest complaint is that Brandon Beane should have:

1.  Kept all of his picks in the 2018 draft

2.  Waited to draft his QB in 2019

 

Just for the moment, I will disregard the fact that Buffalo had the extra draft capital and opportunity to make the QB move this year (knowing for sure there was a prospect they really liked) - and that nobody has any clue what next year's draft order or prospect class will look like.

 

Instead, I will simply point out the fact that you (as a fan) are extremely upset about the Bills not fielding a competitive team in 2018... and your solution is that they should have pushed off the addition of their rookie QB until 2019 -- basically extending the rebuilding process past next season as well.

 

 

Nope, I'm not upset that the Bills could possibly field a bad team this year. I just think they are not building this team the right way and are mismanaging their assets, kind of like Tim Murray did with the Sabres as he spent draft picks and prospects like a drunken sailor. Why would you draft a QB high and don't have a decent enough O-line to protect the kid? If Allen plays the rest of the season, he'll give David Carr a run for his money on being the most sacked NFL QB in history. What do you think that will do for Allen's development? 

[John from Riverside]

51 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Seems McBeane is intent on gutting this roster of players from the Whaley regime and doing a full blown rebuild. I have no problems with doing a rebuild, but the way they are doing it makes absolutely no sense. Moving up and wasting draft picks on two players in the first round this past year was not a smart move. If the Bills are going to be at the top of the draft in 2019, then they could have drafted their QB of the future then instead of what they gave up for Allen. It's too early to tell if Allen and Edmunds will pan out. Both guys have the physical size and traits to be very successful. I am glad that McBeane is trying to address the QB position, because it's been neglected for way too long. Maybe McBeane liked the QB's in this draft class better than the 2019 draft class...who knows. I just think it's not a smart move to use up all these picks when there are so many holes to fill on the team. O-linemen take time to develop, so I think it would have been good for the Bills to use some of this draft capital and address the O-line early. I think building up the lines on both side of the ball first should be a teams priority.

 

It seems McBeane's FA pick ups/trades have been more misses than hits. Now, if these players McBeane are signing are just "stop-gap" players, then that's one thing, but if they're being counted on to be impact players, then McBeane has really screwed up. Vontae Davis, Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy, Kelvin Benjamin, Corey Coleman, Jordan Matthews...not an impressive list of players. Seems McBeane was hoping somebody on the D-line would be free to get to the QB with Lotulelei clogging up the middle, but so far this preseason and in Week 1, it hasn't come to fruition. If Lotulelei doesn't pan out, that could be more dead cap money if he gets cut or traded. 

Who are the players that we moved up for that are not performing up to snuff other then Zay Jones?

 

I will say it before and I will say it again.....making the playoffs last year has confused everyone regarding this rebiuld and it is understandable....we were NOT supposed to be that good last year......that is a testiment to the coaching of the team.  

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I see Dunkirk Don has returned.

 

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

54 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Seems McBeane is intent on gutting this roster of players from the Whaley regime and doing a full blown rebuild. I have no problems with doing a rebuild, but the way they are doing it makes absolutely no sense. Moving up and wasting draft picks on two players in the first round this past year was not a smart move. If the Bills are going to be at the top of the draft in 2019, then they could have drafted their QB of the future then instead of what they gave up for Allen. It's too early to tell if Allen and Edmunds will pan out. Both guys have the physical size and traits to be very successful. I am glad that McBeane is trying to address the QB position, because it's been neglected for way too long. Maybe McBeane liked the QB's in this draft class better than the 2019 draft class...who knows. I just think it's not a smart move to use up all these picks when there are so many holes to fill on the team. O-linemen take time to develop, so I think it would have been good for the Bills to use some of this draft capital and address the O-line early. I think building up the lines on both side of the ball first should be a teams priority.

 

It seems McBeane's FA pick ups/trades have been more misses than hits. Now, if these players McBeane are signing are just "stop-gap" players, then that's one thing, but if they're being counted on to be impact players, then McBeane has really screwed up. Vontae Davis, Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy, Kelvin Benjamin, Corey Coleman, Jordan Matthews...not an impressive list of players. Seems McBeane was hoping somebody on the D-line would be free to get to the QB with Lotulelei clogging up the middle, but so far this preseason and in Week 1, it hasn't come to fruition. If Lotulelei doesn't pan out, that could be more dead cap money if he gets cut or traded. 

Just out of my own curiosity, what the hell do you know about building an NFL roster?

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

For years the complaint is that they (the front office) was not addressing the QB position.  Now the complaint is they did not address the O-line before addressing QB.  

 

D***** if you do, D***** if you dont.  

[Sweats]

54 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Getting a QB high was an absolute necessity. Far from making no sense, it was the only move that did make any sense, except maybe bringing in Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins.

 

Calling it a waste is missing the point. There are very very few ways to bring in a guy with a legitimate shot at being a franchise guy. When you have one of those chances you have to go for it even if it's expensive. They had to get a guy who might grow to become the franchise QB we've needed for so long. Unless they wanted our run of prolonged mediocrity/badness to continue.

 

And yeah, OLs take time to develop. So do QBs. But it's a hell of a lot easier to draft a good OL even if you're winning than it is to draft a good
QB.

 

And yes, moving up delayed filling the holes on the roster.

 

It's worth it. Same as in house construction, building a good strong, stable foundation delays the building of the walls and the installation of the plumbing and everything else, really. But it's necessary to build that strong foundation regardless of the delay. Same thing here. It's necessary to bring in a legitimate potential QB because it's almost impossible to get one when you have a good enough roster elsewhere to consistently win eight or nine games. You never get the chance to draft a potential franchise guy. This is the only way to get it done, and also the smart way.

 

If we're rebuilding as you say (I'm not sure I agree, but put that aside), then you have to keep understanding what a rebuild is. It's not something you do if you want to have a great chance to win the year you trade up and draft your QB. You are sacrificing the short term for the long term. Which is a great idea if the long term is very successful, and true rebuilds increase the chances of extreme success.

 

What was your prediction for the year? Did you think we'd win eight or nine or ten games? People who predicted a lot of wins this year weren't quite understanding how long it takes to build consistent success when you're switching schemes and the regime before you put you in awful salary cap shape.

 

 

......well said

[unclepete]

It's interesting how people's perceptions are shaped by their whether or not they "like" someone. Whaley brought a lot of talent in but the fan base always seemed to question his ability. McBeane has missed on personnel decisions and the team seems to have substantially regressed (possibly the worse team we've had in 20 years), and there's a segment of the fan base that's optimistic. If we're bad again next year, and nothing leads me to believe otherwise, why wouldn't we let them go?

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, unclepete said:

It's interesting how people's perceptions are shaped by their whether or not they "like" someone. Whaley brought a lot of talent in but the fan base always seemed to question his ability. McBeane has missed on personnel decisions and the team seems to have substantially regressed (possibly the worse team we've had in 20 years), and there's a segment of the fan base that's optimistic. If we're bad again next year, and nothing leads me to believe otherwise, why wouldn't we let them go?

 

The reason why many like them is because the Bills made the playoffs last year, especially when it ostensibly looked to everyone that they were tanking by getting rid of so many talented players.  That buys them some BOTD.  Again if they hit on Allen and Edmunds, and do something good with that $90M in cap room next year...

[unclepete]

Just now, Doc said:

 

The reason why many like them is because the Bills made the playoffs last year, especially when it ostensibly looked to everyone that they were tanking by getting rid of so many talented players.  That buys them some BOTD.  Again if they hit on Allen and Edmunds, and do something good with that $90M in cap room next year...

I agree but it seems like making the playoffs was in spite of themselves. Not to rehash old arguments but there were mixed messages sent with Benjamin trade and the Tyrod benching. If we wanted to tank we should ridden Peterman out for the year to see what he had and positioned ourself to get a QB without giving up as many assets. Not trade for Kelvin Benjamin. Not go into the year unsure about what Peterman brought to the table.