McBeane's way of rebuilding makes no sense

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

And EJ Gaines got injured before the season started.

 

Active Week 1

[ProcessAccepted]

46 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Jauron and Levy cleaned house too.   Do you honestly not remember losing Clements, Fletcher, Spikes and McGahee when they were coming off of a fan-satisfying year one under Dickie J?   People were loving them some DJ after the abysmal last season of slop that Mularkey left behind.   Jauron/Levy just did the bulk of their teardown AFTER year one........where McDermott and Beane did most of it between the first offseason of McD and the trade deadline.    They then spent their first pick in round one on Donte Whitner to replace the capable Lawyer Milloy they released and the rest of DJ's tenure trying to replace those aforementioned players in rounds 1 and 2 with McKelvin and Lynch and Poz.   You can't get better when it takes you several years just to get back to square one for moves made in the first 14 months of your tenure.

 

And you clearly don't know how the salary cap works.    The money they had to spend this offseason wasn't some hard figure.    They could structure contracts to put guaranteed dollars into the MASSIVE vacant spaces of salary cap that they have available in coming years.    Spaces which teams normally would save a portion of for their own young FA's........which the Bills basically have none of because they traded or let walk what amounts to about a half dozen recent first and second round picks.  They had VERY little REAL payroll restriction this offseason

.

And just like with Jauron/Levy don't kid yourself that all this wonderful salary cap space is going to be shrewdly used..........it's a sellers market in free agency nowadays.    That's how they ended up throwing a pile of money at Lotulelei, Murphy, Davis, Bodine and Newhouse........potentially 5 flameouts.

 

Honestly I just disagree with the basic tenet or your argument. I understand that there is really no way you are open to a different point of view, so I would even bother. I'll happily agree to disagree and send you on your way.

[freeagentqb]

I posted this in a different thread:

 

We're not rebuilding.  Sounds like a good idea, but we're not.

 

No, we are just a historically bad football team trying to get better.  Seen way too many "just wait till next year" posts that don't seem to ever pan out.  Sorry, but we're not that good at drafting,  picking up better players via trade or free agency, or assembling a proper mix of talent.  There is no magic wand that suggests we will do better next year.

 

So, I just watch the Bills each year and hope for the best..  I criticise them when they lose and jump for joy when they win.  Been doing that since 1960. 

[Doc]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Active Week 1

 

No, he wasn't.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

No, he wasn't.

 

Per NFL.com (at least in their player game logs) but you're correct pro.football.reference doesn't show him

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Per NFL.com (at least in their player game logs) but you're correct pro.football.reference doesn't show him

 

I checked the gamebook the other day (they re-designed the site since and I can't access it anymore :angry:) and he was inactive.  There are also zeros under "G" and "GS" for him.

[MAJBobby]

On 9/11/2018 at 12:46 PM, Jerry Jabber said:

Seems McBeane is intent on gutting this roster of players from the Whaley regime and doing a full blown rebuild. I have no problems with doing a rebuild, but the way they are doing it makes absolutely no sense. Moving up and wasting draft picks on two players in the first round this past year was not a smart move. If the Bills are going to be at the top of the draft in 2019, then they could have drafted their QB of the future then instead of what they gave up for Allen. It's too early to tell if Allen and Edmunds will pan out. Both guys have the physical size and traits to be very successful. I am glad that McBeane is trying to address the QB position, because it's been neglected for way too long. Maybe McBeane liked the QB's in this draft class better than the 2019 draft class...who knows. I just think it's not a smart move to use up all these picks when there are so many holes to fill on the team. O-linemen take time to develop, so I think it would have been good for the Bills to use some of this draft capital and address the O-line early. I think building up the lines on both side of the ball first should be a teams priority.

 

It seems McBeane's FA pick ups/trades have been more misses than hits. Now, if these players McBeane are signing are just "stop-gap" players, then that's one thing, but if they're being counted on to be impact players, then McBeane has really screwed up. Vontae Davis, Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy, Kelvin Benjamin, Corey Coleman, Jordan Matthews...not an impressive list of players. Seems McBeane was hoping somebody on the D-line would be free to get to the QB with Lotulelei clogging up the middle, but so far this preseason and in Week 1, it hasn't come to fruition. If Lotulelei doesn't pan out, that could be more dead cap money if he gets cut or traded. 

 

I have serious doubts about “The Process”

 

but not going to start airing all them just yet will make to many people upset I think. 

[VW82]

No their plan was a good one (i.e. accumulate enough assets that will allow you to pick your future captains). Pretty sure their intent is to move away from a collection of talented players (Whaley era) to more of a team building approach where the guys and chemistry compliment each other. But you need cornerstones first. The issue is did they get the right guys? That part remains to be seen. 

 

Also, I think they badly miscalculated Allen's market. I bet they could have stood pat at 12 and he would have been there. Hard to know for sure though.

 

The o line was bad luck. I'm sure they thought they'd have Richie and EWood for another year or two. That has to be a priority next off season along with WR. I have faith McBeane can find patch work solutions for the D until we can rebuild that side too. We're not nearly as far away there as week one would suggest. 

42 minutes ago, bobm said:

I posted this in a different thread:

 

We're not rebuilding.  Sounds like a good idea, but we're not.

 

No, we are just a historically bad football team trying to get better.  Seen way too many "just wait till next year" posts that don't seem to ever pan out.  Sorry, but we're not that good at drafting,  picking up better players via trade or free agency, or assembling a proper mix of talent.  There is no magic wand that suggests we will do better next year.

 

So, I just watch the Bills each year and hope for the best..  I criticise them when they lose and jump for joy when they win.  Been doing that since 1960. 

 

No man, we're definitely rebuilding. McBeane traded away virtually every good Whaley era player and brought in patch work solutions, then we used our draft capital to buy our captains of the future which they plan on rebuilding around. This is a classic rebuild.

Edited September 12, 2018 by VW82

[freeagentqb]

7 minutes ago, VW82 said:

No their plan was a good one (i.e. accumulate enough assets that will allow you to pick your future captains). Pretty sure their intent is to move away from a collection of talented players (Whaley era) to more of a team building approach where the guys and chemistry compliment each other. But you need cornerstones first. The issue is did they get the right guys? That part remains to be seen. 

 

Also, I think they badly miscalculated Allen's market. I bet they could have stood pat at 12 and he would have been there. Hard to know for sure though.

 

The o line was bad luck. I'm sure they thought they'd have Richie and EWood for another year or two. That has to be a priority next off season along with WR. I have faith McBeane can find patch work solutions for the D until we can rebuild that side. We're not nearly as far away there as week one would suggest. 

 

No man, we're definitely rebuilding. McBeane traded away virtually every good Whaley era player and brought in patch work solutions, then we used our draft capital to buy our captains of the future which they plan on rebuilding around. This is a classic rebuild.

Ok you can call it rebuilding but I call it trying to get better.  There's no guarantee that any future picks will be any good and think that history would show otherwise.  Maybe next year we'll all be saying just wait till next year.  McBeane 's doing the same as been done many times in the past.

[VW82]

5 minutes ago, bobm said:

Ok you can call it rebuilding but I call it trying to get better.  There's no guarantee that any future picks will be any good and think that history would show otherwise.  Maybe next year we'll all be saying just wait till next year.  McBeane 's doing the same as been done many times in the past.

 

Yup it's another in a long line of attempted rebuilds. But it's different from the Rex Ryan era which was mostly re-tool around veterans. All we can do is hope McBeane bets correctly on their guys. I actually like McD as a coach. Players seem bought in. We'll see if they can get the offense straightened out. Even if they're successful it's going to take at least 2-3 years to get this team back to the playoffs. They're starting from the ground up with very little young talent to work with.

Edited September 12, 2018 by VW82

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Yup it's another in a long line of attempted rebuilds. But it's different from the Rex Ryan era which was mostly re-tool around veterans. All we can do is hope McBeane bets correctly on their guys. I actually like McD as a coach. Players seem bought in. We'll see if they can get the offense straightened out. Even if they're successful it's going to take at least 2-3 years to get this team back to the playoffs. They're starting from the ground up with very little young talent to work with.

 

And they caused alot of that talent void themselves #Justsaying 

[reddogblitz]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And they caused alot of that talent void themselves #Justsaying 

 

and if it takes them 2-3years to land the playoffs again, they won't see it unless they buy a ticket

[mjd1001]

If Josh Allen turns out to be a QB worthy of a top 10 pick, then the strategy worked. 

 

The ONLY team in recent memory that has the rest of the team SO bad a franchise QB can't save them is the Colts, but even THEY ended up in the playoffs and an AFC championship game with their franchise QBs.

[VW82]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And they caused alot of that talent void themselves #Justsaying 

 

I know, I know. But again, it was just a collection of players. The leaders of that team were Kyle Williams, Eric Wood, and Shady who are all old and either no longer here or on their way out. You weren't going to be able to build around any of the other guys we were paying, so I get why they did what they did. It's really hard to find high character leaders who also have the talent, but it's so important you get them (and we paid out the nose to do so unfortunately). We weren't going anywhere with Dareus, Sammy, et. al. 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, VW82 said:

 

I know, I know. But again, it was just a collection of players. The leaders of that team were Kyle Williams, Eric Wood, and Shady who are all old and either no longer here or on their way out. You weren't going to be able to build around any of the other guys we were paying, so I get why they did what they did. It's really hard to find high character leaders who also have the talent, but it's so important you get them (and we paid out the nose to do so unfortunately). We weren't going anywhere with Dareus, Sammy, et. al. 

 

Why because McD said so?  Seems Goodwin and Woods culture is fine in their nee teams?  What about Sammy seems there is no issue in locker room in KC. 

 

Ooo how is Gilmore fitting in the Patriot way?

 

they were arrogant and caused this talent void and dead cap issue and I find it weird the amount of fans giving them a pass on what THEY CREATED 

[SoTier]

On 9/11/2018 at 1:49 PM, Thurman#1 said:

Getting a QB high was an absolute necessity. Far from making no sense, it was the only move that did make any sense, except maybe bringing in Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins.

 

Calling it a waste is missing the point. There are very very few ways to bring in a guy with a legitimate shot at being a franchise guy. When you have one of those chances you have to go for it even if it's expensive. They had to get a guy who might grow to become the franchise QB we've needed for so long. Unless they wanted our run of prolonged mediocrity/badness to continue.

 

And yeah, OLs take time to develop. So do QBs. But it's a hell of a lot easier to draft a good OL even if you're winning than it is to draft a good
QB.

 

And yes, moving up delayed filling the holes on the roster.

 

It's worth it. Same as in house construction, building a good strong, stable foundation delays the building of the walls and the installation of the plumbing and everything else, really. But it's necessary to build that strong foundation regardless of the delay. Same thing here. It's necessary to bring in a legitimate potential QB because it's almost impossible to get one when you have a good enough roster elsewhere to consistently win eight or nine games. You never get the chance to draft a potential franchise guy. This is the only way to get it done, and also the smart way.

 

If we're rebuilding as you say (I'm not sure I agree, but put that aside), then you have to keep understanding what a rebuild is. It's not something you do if you want to have a great chance to win the year you trade up and draft your QB. You are sacrificing the short term for the long term. Which is a great idea if the long term is very successful, and true rebuilds increase the chances of extreme success.

 

What was your prediction for the year? Did you think we'd win eight or nine or ten games? People who predicted a lot of wins this year weren't quite understanding how long it takes to build consistent success when you're switching schemes and the regime before you put you in awful salary cap shape.

 

If McDermott really felt that getting a QB was an "absolute necessity", why didn't he grab Mahomes or Watson in 2017 when the Bills had the 10th overall pick?   Having won the power struggle with Whaley, he ran the 2017 draft, and he traded back to take a DB and get an extra first rounder in 2018, which is nice but a team doesn't build a winning team by missing opportunities, especially when obtaining a better QB is an "absolutely necessity", and McDermott missed a big opportunity.  

 

Of course, taking Mahomes or Watson would have eliminated McDermott/Beanes favorite excuse that they had to trade away current talent in order to move up to draft a QB.

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Why because McD said so?  Seems Goodwin and Woods culture is fine in their nee teams?  What about Sammy seems there is no issue in locker room in KC. 

 

Ooo how is Gilmore fitting in the Patriot way?

 

they were arrogant and caused this talent void and dead cap issue and I find it weird the amount of fans giving them a pass on what THEY CREATED 

 

AMEN!!!!  

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

If McDermott really felt that getting a QB was an "absolute necessity", why didn't he grab Mahomes or Watson in 2017 when the Bills had the 10th overall pick?   Having won the power struggle with Whaley, he ran the 2017 draft, and he traded back to take a DB and get an extra first rounder in 2018, which is nice but a team doesn't build a winning team by missing opportunities, especially when obtaining a better QB is an "absolutely necessity", and McDermott missed a big opportunity.  

 

Of course, taking Mahomes or Watson would have eliminated McDermott/Beanes favorite excuse that they had to trade away current talent in order to move up to draft a QB.

 

Ding ding ding ding 

[John from Riverside]

48 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I have serious doubts about “The Process”

 

but not going to start airing all them just yet will make to many people upset I think. 

I think your doing the right thing and not starting with that just yet.

 

Its week 1.....it is amazing what talent at the QB position can do.....even if it is raw

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

Honestly I just disagree with the basic tenet or your argument. I understand that there is really no way you are open to a different point of view, so I would even bother. I'll happily agree to disagree and send you on your way.

 

Yes I know,  you don't have an argument you are just blowing hot air about McD getting the team to give full effort all the time and hoping people forget what they've seen in some games where they've flat out QUIT on McD because they didn't trust his coaching and personnel choices.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VW82]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Why because McD said so?  Seems Goodwin and Woods culture is fine in their nee teams?  What about Sammy seems there is no issue in locker room in KC. 

 

Ooo how is Gilmore fitting in the Patriot way?

 

they were arrogant and caused this talent void and dead cap issue and I find it weird the amount of fans giving them a pass on what THEY CREATED 

 

Sammy was always hurt, and then washed out in LA. He's been a huge disappointment, and was angling for a giant contract from us if you'll recall.  

 

Gilmore signed for 65M. Never was a leader and wasn't even that great a Bill tbh. Definitely not worth that money. It's different when you have Brady and Belichick in your locker room.

 

I'm sad we didn't keep Woods. His contract was totally reasonable and that one looks like a misfire but players also have to want to stay. It's not like we would have franchised him.

 

Bottom line, you pay your leaders that you want to build around and we didn't have any (outside of the old guard). The core of the team was old and needed a reset. It was a huge problem, and now at least that's been addressed (in theory).