McBeane's way of rebuilding makes no sense

[BADOLBILZ]

14 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

If the coaching staff can build that fight till the bitter end mentality we'll be in great shape when they start adding talent.

 

 

So you thought they fought til the bitter end Sunday?

 

What we are seeing is the same thing we saw under Jauron..........team plays hard until they get down a couple scores then gets discouraged and they start making business decisions.

 

Nobody in the NFL is going to kill themselves for bad game plans,  poor in-game management and poor use of personnel anymore.

 

 

 

 

[Jeff1954]

Thank you to everyone who posted. You all know much more than me and I really appreciate the insights and points of view. I live in Sydney, Australia and only get to see the games on TV so the more opinions I read, the better I understand.

Just a couple of points.

It was widely reported that Brandon Beane made it very clear to Mr Pegula that it would take him three years to get the team’s financial situation back on track. Really, this is year Two. By the start of year three, the Bills’ cap situation will be looking terrific. In that sense, he has overachieved.

Coach McDermott achieved a better outcome with a clearly less talented team than Rex Ryan. He is still a rookie head coach. He too has earned the benefit of the doubt despite making his share of mistakes.

Their fates will and should depend on how Josh Allen is brought along. It seems to be the belief that it takes three years to evaluate draft picks.

Despite the understandable disappointment and frustration with poor performances, on all counts , they deserve a break from the “fire them!” comments for the next couple of years.

 

[78thealltimegreat]

I think they get the benefit of the doubt cause they really are building this team for next year   I doubt they expected this level of futility especially on the defensive side of the ball 

[ghostwriter]

I think we have a franchise QB. Beane will have a few years to build the team.

[Vod Kanockers]

1 hour ago, Laughing Coffin said:

Some of us here make it sound like we were lush with talent all over the field in 2016. 

 

But the fact of the matter is, aside from Beane dumping a few players, this team was already garbage heading into 2017.

Dareus / Darby I agree with those 2 players definitely. We could have kept Dareus and dealt with a lot less dead cap situation after next year, we are eating his cap space anyways still and we could have had him on the field for the same price we're paying not to have him here, and he would have likely kept our interior DL respectable until then. As far as our CB2 position, it's in absolute shambles, so the Darby deal was not good in my opinion either.

Maybe not resigning Robert Woods/Marquise Goodwin, but those were decisions made by Whaley/McDermott. Can't blame them on Goodwin, he was always a tad banged up, just got hurt again after a promising 2017 campaign where he came out relatively unscathed. The best ability is availability, after all. Robert Woods seemed like a "process" guy I'm surprised we didn't throw 7 mil his way per year. Whenever he was listed as questionable on the IR he was likely going to be out there on the field, seemed like a guy who wanted to just play football

So unless I'm missing anyone from the 2016 Bills, our "roster of talent" equates to 2-3 guys (4 if you want to count Sammy, who's done nothing to warrant getting 16 mil a year so far) that we should have kept in their respectful spots, and built around them instead of creating holes that we still haven't filled. Not to mention we had 2 starting OL retire/go mental.

Tyrod masked our OL issues a lot more than most give him credit for, this team did not belong at 9-7 last year, especially our team the 2nd half of the year, soon as we dealt Dareus we started to get GASHED in the run game.  It was glaringly obvious how important he was at clogging the middle. If we would have played to our roster's talent on paper, our team likely was a 5-11 6-10 team that would have been lush with picks in this most recent draft.  We would have been able to sit at our position and drafted Allen, keeping the rest of our day 2 picks.

What they’re never going to tell you... Last year was the tear down/tank year. Ship off anything you can get value for in the form of draft picks. Good QB class coming out, draft high. What they DIDNT plan on, was making the playoffs or having a winning record. How do you snap the longest drought in North American sports and come out and say.. “whoops! Wasn’t our intention?” Beane has been good so far at getting picks for players. However, Whaley is showing to be the master at digging through the trash and bringing in high quality players. Having the record that they did last year threw a wrench in their plans. Right now, you’re seeing them scramble to act like they planned for it all along.. Beanes ability to bring in any sort of quality FA is quite suspect to this point. 

[Laughing Coffin]

5 minutes ago, Vod Kanockers said:

What they’re never going to tell you... Last year was the tear down/tank year. Ship off anything you can get value for in the form of draft picks. Good QB class coming out, draft high. What they DIDNT plan on, was making the playoffs or having a winning record. How do you snap the longest drought in North American sports and come out and say.. “whoops! Wasn’t our intention?” Beane has been good so far at getting picks for players. However, Whaley is showing to be the master at digging through the trash and bringing in high quality players. Having the record that they did last year threw a wrench in their plans. Right now, you’re seeing them scramble to act like they planned for it all along.. Beanes ability to bring in any sort of quality FA is quite suspect to this point. 

 

 

Exactly.  Like I'll take the drought being over it was great to just to purge that weight looming on our staff/locker room/fan base.  But we really screwed the pooch in hindsight playing way above our projection.  IF we went 6-10 for instance we would have likely been able to keep most of our picks

[Ol Dirty B]

We hired a high school coach and AD. That's the problem. They have no clue about man management. 

42 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So you thought they fought til the bitter end Sunday?

 

What we are seeing is the same thing we saw under Jauron..........team plays hard until they get down a couple scores then gets discouraged and they start making business decisions.

 

Nobody in the NFL is going to kill themselves for bad game plans,  poor in-game management and poor use of personnel anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

Lol fight till the bitter end. I'd feel so much better if Benjamin caught that td so we put up 7.

 

This team is !@#$ing garbage. This isn't your high school team, I don't want to hear that nonsense. They need elite athletes and talent and they traded all that away and traded all that away.

[BillsSbSoon]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I’m not buying McDermott’s sob story about inheriting a bad team that needed new culture. 

 

Hey Beane, it’s 2018, might want to do better than Chris Ivory and Jeremy Kerley.

Im not buying that either. We had a lot of talent. The problem was it wasnt sustainable cause of the contracts given out when we still lacked a qb

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, BillsSbSoon said:

Im not buying that either. We had a lot of talent. The problem was it wasnt sustainable cause of the contracts given out when we still lacked a qb

 

It's absolutely sustainable with a qb on a rookie contract. 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

It's absolutely sustainable with a qb on a rookie contract. 

Did we have that QB on a rookie contract at the time we started these moves?

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Did we have that QB on a rookie contract at the time we started these moves?

 

No, but the plan was in place. They had 2 1st rounders before they got rid of Watkins, and Darby. I like Edmunds, but the capital used to get him, throw that all in the qb trade up and they probably could have found a way to Allen. And have Darby, Watkins, and Glenn. Not to mention the trade for Benjamin, do with that trade what you want. It makes no sense at this point.

[John from Riverside]

15 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

No, but the plan was in place. They had 2 1st rounders before they got rid of Watkins, and Darby. I like Edmunds, but the capital used to get him, throw that all in the qb trade up and they probably could have found a way to Allen. And have Darby, Watkins, and Glenn. Not to mention the trade for Benjamin, do with that trade what you want. It makes no sense at this point.

A Kuch type linebacker was absolutely needed for this defense......you may not agree with McD's vision but he is not being wishy washy in trying to get their....if he is trying to build the Panther's defenses (ranked in the top 10) it had a LB with great range that can get anywhere on the field......Edmunds was a big pick up for this team.

 

There are players I would rather have seen not go....but I am not going to make a final determination on McD and Beane until I see what they are actually trying to create

 

And they are gonna get that chance.....this turnover of coaches and gms is not helping this team either........the are going to get their opportunity of next offseason with that cap room and another set of draft picks

[BillsSbSoon]

19 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

It's absolutely sustainable with a qb on a rookie contract. 

Yeah but we didnt have that at the time. And before that, we were close in '14 with a really talented roster and ej was on a rookie deal and obv it didnt work and is part of why we are where we are now. 

Guys like woods wanted out because he was basically an extra blocker in our offense

[Ol Dirty B]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

A Kuch type linebacker was absolutely needed for this defense......you may not agree with McD's vision but he is not being wishy washy in trying to get their....if he is trying to build the Panther's defenses (ranked in the top 10) it had a LB with great range that can get anywhere on the field......Edmunds was a big pick up for this team.

 

There are players I would rather have seen not go....but I am not going to make a final determination on McD and Beane until I see what they are actually trying to create

 

And they are gonna get that chance.....this turnover of coaches and gms is not helping this team either........the are going to get their opportunity of next offseason with that cap room and another set of draft picks

 

Our defense, which they supposedly addressed gave up almost 50 points this week. With backups playing the second half. Edmunds could be great, but he isn't single handedly cutting that in half.

 

These guys have done an atrocious job this off season. I don't see how it can be cut any other way. Doesn't mean it will be that way forever, but I'm not a believer in them.

Just now, BillsSbSoon said:

Yeah but we didnt have that at the time. And before that, we were close in '14 with a really talented roster and ej was on a rookie deal and obv it didnt work and is part of why we are where we are now. 

Guys like woods wanted out because he was basically an extra blocker in our offense

 

As opposed to what WR would want to come here now? They still have that outdated philosophy 

[BillsSbSoon]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

As opposed to what WR would want to come here now? They still have that outdated philosophy 

If allen shows he can play, wr's will want to play with him.

[vincec]

6 hours ago, Buftex said:

I am not a Beane/McDermot hater, but I think the roster they inherited was much better than what we have now.  I realize, this is a work in progress, and I am hopeful they build something better than what they are trying to replace...but they aren't there yet.  In my opinion, Rex Ryan and his coaching staff were the biggest obstacle to the Bills success.

Not his entire staff either, IMO. Him and his brother were the primary problems. His offensive coaches and many of his position coaches were solid.

[PlayoffsPlease]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Did we have that QB on a rookie contract at the time we started these moves?

Yes, our week 1 starter Nate Peterman.  Hope that clears things up for you. 

 

 

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Forcing?  He agreed to it.  We are hardly privy to Richie's mental state and the discussions regarding the paycut behind closed doors.

 

With any paycut, there's the unspoken threat of "we may have to cut you if you don't agree," but Richie agreed, then melted down and reneged.  Hundreds of players before Richie have taken paycuts in their old age without resorting to calling the team owner's in the middle of the night screaming obscenities.  And once he did that, he was done in the NFL.  He was the author of his own fate.  You don't harass the boss who writes the checks just because you feel slighted.

 

It's a damn shame.  And it hurt the Buffalo Bills.  But no one carries more responsibility for that than Richie Incognito himself.

We agree then that you need decent NFLers around a QB to help your QB?  How you could be okay with Zay Jones as a #1 option in the year of our lord 2018 and in the same breath bemoan the offensive line is beyond me.

How did you come up with that fictitious conclusion? Making things up not only doesn't support your position it undercuts your credibility. 

 

With respect to Incognito the issue isn't so much keeping him or not. The issue is if you are not going to keep him then have an acceptable replacement who should at a  minimum be competent. The player who replaced RI was Ducasse. Not only is he not good enough to be a backup but he is not good enough to be in the league. 

[BillsVet]

7 hours ago, Vod Kanockers said:

What they’re never going to tell you... Last year was the tear down/tank year. Ship off anything you can get value for in the form of draft picks. Good QB class coming out, draft high. What they DIDNT plan on, was making the playoffs or having a winning record. How do you snap the longest drought in North American sports and come out and say.. “whoops! Wasn’t our intention?” Beane has been good so far at getting picks for players. However, Whaley is showing to be the master at digging through the trash and bringing in high quality players. Having the record that they did last year threw a wrench in their plans. Right now, you’re seeing them scramble to act like they planned for it all along.. Beanes ability to bring in any sort of quality FA is quite suspect to this point. 

 

The jury is still out on McCoach/Beane.  Whaley is running a third rate college all star game. McCoach/Beane are 9-8 in the regular season.

 

Neither McCoach or Beane strike me as the type who were content rebuilding and not really competing for 2 seasons. Their decisions are open to criticism, but the book has not been written on their tenure. Whaley's NFL career is, at the least, on hold no matter how well he dumpster dived.  

 

Last year was not a tank year and neither is this season.  Think they would have one of the oldest rosters in the league if that were the case? Doubtful.  Or spent what they did in UFA this off-season?

 

The main issue now is how flexible are they with the process. It got them through last year's peaks and valleys. This year will probably not result in playoff contention by week 12. 

[JohnC]

23 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

We seem to have a lot of those type of players. Players not good enough to be in the league. 

 

As as long as they buy in though as we get our asses kicked up and down the field....

This league and the system that it works under is predicated on a lot of player movements. Much of it is due to contracts (cap system) and a high rate of injuries. RI and Glenn were possible if not probable candidates to be moved. While Woods health situation was a surprise the status of the two other players was not. The next question was what was the plan to replace them? Very often you can't replace the departed players with equal talent but you should be able to replace them with acceptable talent levels. 

 

When you watch Ducasse you see a player that is constantly being overwhelmed and driven back on every play. That shouldn't have been a surprise because it reflects his history of play. Because of the departures on the line it was probable that this line wasn't going to be good. That doesn't mean that it had to be atrociously bad. That level of ineptitude from the line reverberates throughout the offense not giving it a chance to function. This was predictable and this is a shame.