The negativity from the fanbase is not a knee jerk reaction to week 1

[QB Bills]

Rest assured OP, there are fans out there that agree with you 100%. The ones who don't appeal to authority. Those who have watched this same song and dance time and again and correctly stated it was doomed to fail from the beginning. Basically fans who don't squeeze their eyes shut and plug their ears and start singing the shout song anytime someone says something critical about the team. The problem is, most of us just don't have the energy to deal with these loud koolaid drinkers anymore. It's been 18 years of incompetent management and this latest installment is no different.

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, QB Bills said:

Rest assured OP, there are fans out there that agree with you 100%. The ones who don't appeal to authority. Those who have watched this same song and dance time and again and correctly stated it was doomed to fail from the beginning. Basically fans who don't squeeze their eyes shut and plug their ears and start singing the shout song anytime someone says something critical about the team. The problem is, most of us just don't have the energy to deal with these loud koolaid drinkers anymore. It's been 18 years of incompetent management and this latest installment is no different.

Do yourself a favor and look at the roster of playoff teams last year.  

[SinceThe70s]

10 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

 

Therein lies the trick. It’s NOT necessarily confidence in Peterman, it’s not being willing to put Allen out too early. You MUST live with he incompetence to avoid putting Allen in too soon. The other option was AJ, who played WORSE in preseason, and they magically got a draft pick for. It’s NOT about bad backups, it’s ALL about who will take the beatings until they decide to put Allen is. 

 

We're on the same page in more ways than not.

 

Where we disagree is whether we "MUST live with the incompetence".

 

I think having a competent backup should have been part of the plan. I think they thought that too but failed miserably with their judgement of Peterman and AJ. It's hindsight but taking a flyer on Teddy Bridgewater might have been a better option.

 

 

 

 

 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

We're on the same page in more ways than not.

 

Where we disagree is whether we "MUST live with the incompetence".

 

I think having a competent backup should have been part of the plan. I think they thought that too but failed miserably with their judgement of Peterman and AJ. It's hindsight but taking a flyer on Teddy Bridgewater might have been a better option.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, Teddy would have been the better bet. The Jets are starting to look smart. UGH! Got the better backup plus Darnold. The Giants win idiots of the decade award. 

 

At this stage, we MUST live with it, since we have no better options. Tense is all that’s in question.  

[Ayjent]

So how easy is it going to be to lure FAs to Buffalo if the Bills can’t right this ship?  I’m asking that question because it is a negative factor along with the perception of Buffalo as a place to live. If the team looks totally devoid of talent or very lean on talent it’s going to be a hard sell and utilizing that cap space isn’t going to be easy to do efficiently and to avoid toxic contracts. The cap room argument for this team getting better is a red herring.  Drafting is going to be key to this team getting rebuilt and there better be a massive focus on the OL and then some skill players on offense - they can’t slow roll getting a decent offense around Allen if they actually want to be able to properly evaluate him, but given what they did to help out the inexperience at the position this season that should be concerning people...a lot.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Ayjent

[Figster]

10 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Things would be so much more pleasant and productive around here if this message board would divide off into two separate message boards.

 

One for the kool aid "positive" people and one for the "negative" realists.

 

95% of the fighting around here comes from eternal conflict between those two fundamental differences in perspective.

 

Little productive football discussion takes place as a result.

 

 

 Myself personally, a forum that everyone agrees sounds boring.   

 

A difference of opinion doesn't have to result in fighting and some of the best football discussions on TBD stem from them IMO.

 

No reason both sides of a debate can't come away from a good discussion having learned something new in my humble opinion.

 

  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

10 hours ago, BeginnersMind said:

Last year, a bunch of vets played their hearts out and got lucky to make the playoffs on a team with a -57 point differential. 2 pro bowlers from that team are no longer in football, the rest aged, and they are paying 50 million to players not on the roster. And the #1 pick isn't contributing because he needs to develop. 

 

Beane tried to fix it with smoke and mirrors last year and this with short term cap friendly contracts to aging vets, but until the team clears age and cap hell, there's not a great foundation in Buffalo. There is literally NOTHING to build on for the 3-4 year future from last year except Dawkins and White...maybe Milano. No other player from 2017-2018 will be on the team in 2020. Think about how bad that is.

 

That is the turd sandwich courtesy of Whaley and Ryan. There is no quick fix, but the fixing starts over the next two years. Hopefully after 3 years of drafting and smarter cap management, the team can start to resemble something. 

 

If you think a pop gun quick fix of drafting a WR this year would fix the hell they are in, you're nuts. This team clears cap hell next season. Their young QB, who they do not want to ruin by putting him in too early, needs to grow. There is hardly a single position where they don't need help. Cap hell and 2 more drafts could put them in a spot where they may improve. 

 

I just hope management doesn't cave to a frustrated fan base and change the GM and coach who got handed literally nothing to work with. How is the plan of changing a coach and GM every third year working out over the last 20+ years?

 

And yes, let's attack McDermott and Beane for not hanging on to a guy who wanted more money...but couldn't lead a TD drive in the playoffs. And who completed 30% of his passes Sunday. Or blame them for getting rid of AJ McCarron...who was clearly lining up to save the season! At least they got a pick for him. God only knows what the Raiders were thinking. 

You know, this is a common cop out I am starting to see more and more often. Heck even McDermott said it this week. This is the team we “inherited” and now we’re trying to build it the “right way”. 

 

Well McDermott and Beane, it’s on you too. You didn’t have to trade 23 year old Ronald Darby for a 3rd, he could have been your corner opposite White for 2 more years. You didn’t have to bench Taylor and put in a 5th Round rookie. 

 

McDermott you didn’t have to trade up for Zay Jones, who has been a complete bust, and you didn’t have to trade up for Dion Dawkins, giving away two more draft picks. 

 

You gutted prominent players on the offensive line in Glenn and on the defensive line in Dareus. 

 

Whaley handed you Poyer and Hyde. 

 

Whaley also handed you Clay and McCoy and Hughes and Alexander. All guys that you couldn’t find anyone better than. 

 

Did Beane read the situation right by trading #12, #53, #56 to move up 5 spots for Allen? A team was really going to move up ahead of the Bills? Let alone was Allen the right choice? 

 

Did we have to trade #65 for Edmunds? Was why Preston Brown allowed to walk? 

 

Deonte Thompson was let go, Jordan Matthews wasn’t resigned, Dez Bryant is still out there, did the Bills really do everything they could to improve WR?

 

Did Mike Tolbert have to be the one and only backup RB last year while we leaned on 29 year old McCoy? 

 

Why did this FO think Chris Ivory was worth signing? 

 

Do McDermott and Beane watch these games, 40+ points being scored, Quarterbacks throwing for 400 yards and think we are going to build an offense like that? Or are they Dick Jauron/Doug Marrone disciples who believe in hard work, punting and snowy Buffalo rock pounding? 

 

I think it’s too early to judge Beane and McDermott fully, but neither one gives me a great feeling that they know what they are doing. Neither one gives me a feeling that we are going to have a watchable offense on Sundays. They give me the feeling that we are stuck in the same conservative mindset. The same type of Coaching we always get. They give me the feeling that their minds are stuck in Carolina, stuck on winning 17-14 games with Kaolin Clay on Special Teams, stuck on punting to play field position and kicking FGs on 4th-1. 

 

The Bills are out there trying to run McCoy out of Shotgun, and throwing 5 yard outs on 3rd-8 to avoid turnovers and keep the down and distance manageable. Trying to beat teams like the Saints and Rams by pinning them in their own end..... 

 

Its not not too early to judge. Playoffs in 2017 bought them through 2019, but next offseason better be good. You don’t get 5 year rebuilds. And stop blowing picks by trading up all the time, there are holes everywhere on this roster. Might have to bypass the choir boy to get a guy who can run a 4.30. 

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

This is why the franchise can’t have a quick trigger. They’ve already shown to be pretty adept at drafting.

^^

6 hours ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Of note, those 5 are the five best. There’s guys like Milano and maybe Teller that could appear on that list as well. They’re proving more effective in the draft than Whaley.

^^

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Potential franchise QB and leader of their D.  Starting LT.  Shut down corner (whatever that means).  Starting DT next year.  Slot CB this year.  Good return guy in Ray Ray.  Potential starting G in Teller.

 

Yeah,  not bad.

 

 

 

Adept at drafting?  White is a nice pick, and Dawkins may become a good LT but nobody else from the 2017 draft is even promising.  Milano is an undersized LB who wouldn't be a starter on many other NFL rosters ... but spending 2 picks to get Zay Jones and wasting a fifth round pick on Peterman makes the 2017 draft look pretty crappy already even though it's still too early to judge 2017.

 

Since Allen, Edmunds, Phillips, and Johnson have played in exactly 1 NFL game, nobody knows how good -- or bad -- they'll turn out to be.  As for Teller, the supposed "potential starting guard," he wasn't even active for the game.

 

When these guys have been in the league for 3 years or so, then you can fairly judge if a draft is good, bad or indifferent.  Of course, part of judging a HC/GM's drafting prowess is how decisions.  For instance, many Bills fans crucify Whaley for trading up in 2014 to get Sammy Watkins when he could have taken another top WR like OBJ or Jarvis Landry who were both available at the Bills original spot, but they conveniently ignore that trading up to get Jones when better prospects like JuJu Smith-Schuster would have been available may be even worse if Jones turns out to be a bust.

 

Moreover, evaluation of McDermott/Beane's drafting prowess will not only be judged by whether or not Allen develops into a franchise QB, but it also upon how good Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, and Josh Rosen -- all QBs McDermott/Beane could have taken instead of Allen -- turn out compared to Allen.

 

30 minutes ago, Augie said:

Why is it the positive people do it with a sense of hope a general kindness? No hate against those with differing opinions. The HATERS bring some serious hate. I’d rather read a well developed opinion of why the long term plan is impossibly doomed. That is what they are selling, but I think it’s mostly in reaction to short term results. Sure, Sunday was a horrific mess. Over-reacting is easy, and what some people live for. I hope the rest of their lives are less miserable. Might I suggest they just go away to feel better until they can just jump back on the bandwagon? (Oh boy, that will bring the predictable responses from the usual suspects!) 

 

I think the long term view is the way to go, and I’m OK with that. 

^^

28 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

May I politely suggest we don’t feed the trolls? 

 

Pot, meet Kettle.  Calling people who dare to disagree with your views "trolls" is hardly "a general kindness".  In fact, the OP has been repeatedly attacked, insulted, and mocked by posters who disagree with him/her in this thread while only 2 or 3 "positive" posters actually attempted to refute what he had to say in his original post. 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I will always fly the realist flag. 

 

This organization has been mostly garbage since 1960 outside of 1988-1993.

 

Beane/McDermott look like the same ultra conservative coaches we’ve had here since Jauron. Trying to play 1970’s football in 2018. 

 

Sorry, that’s what it looks like. 

[Figster]

9 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I will always fly the realist flag. 

 

This organization has been mostly garbage since 1960 outside of 1988-1993.

 

Beane/McDermott look like the same ultra conservative coaches we’ve had here since Jauron. Trying to play 1970’s football in 2018. 

 

Sorry, that’s what it looks like. 

Staying with Tyrod Taylor would have been ultra conservative vs the player turnover and gamble on Allen IMO.

 

Firing our OC and bringing in Daboll also doesn't strike me as ultra conservative. 

[Billsflyer12]

42 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

You know, this is a common cop out I am starting to see more and more often. Heck even McDermott said it this week. This is the team we “inherited” and now we’re trying to build it the “right way”. 

 

Well McDermott and Beane, it’s on you too. You didn’t have to trade 23 year old Ronald Darby for a 3rd, he could have been your corner opposite White for 2 more years. You didn’t have to bench Taylor and put in a 5th Round rookie. 

 

McDermott you didn’t have to trade up for Zay Jones, who has been a complete bust, and you didn’t have to trade up for Dion Dawkins, giving away two more draft picks. 

 

You gutted prominent players on the offensive line in Glenn and on the defensive line in Dareus. 

 

Whaley handed you Poyer and Hyde. 

 

Whaley also handed you Clay and McCoy and Hughes and Alexander. All guys that you couldn’t find anyone better than. 

 

Did Beane read the situation right by trading #12, #53, #56 to move up 5 spots for Allen? A team was really going to move up ahead of the Bills? Let alone was Allen the right choice? 

 

Did we have to trade #65 for Edmunds? Was why Preston Brown allowed to walk? 

 

Deonte Thompson was let go, Jordan Matthews wasn’t resigned, Dez Bryant is still out there, did the Bills really do everything they could to improve WR?

 

Did Mike Tolbert have to be the one and only backup RB last year while we leaned on 29 year old McCoy? 

 

Why did this FO think Chris Ivory was worth signing? 

 

Do McDermott and Beane watch these games, 40+ points being scored, Quarterbacks throwing for 400 yards and think we are going to build an offense like that? Or are they Dick Jauron/Doug Marrone disciples who believe in hard work, punting and snowy Buffalo rock pounding? 

 

I think it’s too early to judge Beane and McDermott fully, but neither one gives me a great feeling that they know what they are doing. Neither one gives me a feeling that we are going to have a watchable offense on Sundays. They give me the feeling that we are stuck in the same conservative mindset. The same type of Coaching we always get. They give me the feeling that their minds are stuck in Carolina, stuck on winning 17-14 games with Kaolin Clay on Special Teams, stuck on punting to play field position and kicking FGs on 4th-1. 

 

The Bills are out there trying to run McCoy out of Shotgun, and throwing 5 yard outs on 3rd-8 to avoid turnovers and keep the down and distance manageable. Trying to beat teams like the Saints and Rams by pinning them in their own end..... 

 

Its not not too early to judge. Playoffs in 2017 bought them through 2019, but next offseason better be good. You don’t get 5 year rebuilds. And stop blowing picks by trading up all the time, there are holes everywhere on this roster. Might have to bypass the choir boy to get a guy who can run a 4.30. 

This 1000x over!!

[THEHARDTRUTH]

11 hours ago, Chemical said:

All the people complaining about the negativity on this board. If just one of them had a single reason not to be negative about the coach and GM I'm willing to listen. So far all I've seen is MORE people attempting to make fun of me for complaining, which is the origin of the post.

Pretty much what this board is about Chemical. If your looking for intelligent conversation regarding the Bills you are in the wrong place.

Edited September 12, 2018 by THEHARDTRUTH

[John from Riverside]

44 minutes ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

Pretty much what this board is about Chemical. If your looking for intelligent conversation regarding the Bills you are in the wrong place.

intelligent conversation lol

 

You mean a place where people sit and around and cry in their beer about how much everything sucks on the bills.....

 

Yes thank god this place has not been allowed to turn into that

 

 

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I will always fly the realist flag. 

 

This organization has been mostly garbage since 1960 outside of 1988-1993.

 

Beane/McDermott look like the same ultra conservative coaches we’ve had here since Jauron. Trying to play 1970’s football in 2018. 

 

Sorry, that’s what it looks like. 

Realist...another name for punchbowl pisser

 

Beane/McDermott dont have ENOUGH time to make the evaluation you are trying to make all that is known is

 

- They are serious about their rebiuld and that is shown by the moves they have created to create the huge crap sandwich dead cap hit that we are experiencing this year

- They are not afraid to make changes

- They didnt have the money to be aggressive in free agency this year

- They understood the importance of drafting the franchise qb......and were aggressive to doing so

- Their free agent aquisiitions this year ARE shaky.....but its also early one game into the season

- Oh and DESPITE all of the above....they made the playoffs in their FIRST year

- Their future is extremely bright with the huge amounts of cap space and accumulation of draft picks.....and to evaluate them before you actually see what they do with that is.....well so unrealistic for a "realist"

[BeginnersMind]

13 hours ago, Keukasmallies said:

 

5/53 = 9.4% and that proportion does not a team make.  BUT those five are certainly NFL quality players and deserve better than they are getting from their teammates.

 

3/5 of those guys were not in the team Beane took over. 

 

But somehow this mess is his fault. 

 

It will take years to undo the Whaley Ryan disaster. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 hours ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

Pretty much what this board is about Chemical. If your looking for intelligent conversation regarding the Bills you are in the wrong place.

What is “intelligent conversation” regarding the Bills? 

 

Is it should Chris Ivory see more touches? When does Kahari Lee see the field? Is Siram Neal a diamond in the rough?

 

Maybe it’s Ray Ray McCloud is ready to contribute now, or Wyatt Teller is progressing, Eddie Yarborough is in the rotation. 

 

Is that what intelligent conversation is to the enlightened posters here? 

[QB Bills]

5 hours ago, THEHARDTRUTH said:

Pretty much what this board is about Chemical. If your looking for intelligent conversation regarding the Bills you are in the wrong place.

Totally agree. It wasn't always like this though. Somehow, the koolaid drinkers have become more emboldened in their lack of football knowledge and taken over the last couple of years. Kind of a microcosm of the entire country actually. 

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

What is “intelligent conversation” regarding the Bills? 

 

Is it should Chris Ivory see more touches? When does Kahari Lee see the field? Is Siram Neal a diamond in the rough?

 

Maybe it’s Ray Ray McCloud is ready to contribute now, or Wyatt Teller is progressing, Eddie Yarborough is in the rotation. 

 

Is that what intelligent conversation is to the enlightened posters here? 

Yes, relative to one of the hysteria around here.

[SoTier]

6 hours ago, Figster said:

Staying with Tyrod Taylor would have been ultra conservative vs the player turnover and gamble on Allen IMO.

 

Firing our OC and bringing in Daboll also doesn't strike me as ultra conservative. 

 

This reply is disingenous, and it hardly proves that McDermott isn't ultra-conservative.

 

The Bills had many other options for a veteran QB than simply keeping Taylor or trading Taylor and going with Peterman.   McDermott and Beane chose to go with Peterman rather than with Taylor, McCarron or another veteran QB.  

 

The same with the OC options.   The choice wasn't just keep Dennison or go with Daboll.  There were numerous OC candidates with much better credentials -- ie, real success as NFL OCs -- than Daboll.

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

This reply is disingenous, and it hardly proves that McDermott isn't ultra-conservative.

 

The Bills had many other options for a veteran QB than simply keeping Taylor or trading Taylor and going with Peterman.   McDermott and Beane chose to go with Peterman rather than with Taylor, McCarron or another veteran QB.  

 

The same with the OC options.   The choice wasn't just keep Dennison or go with Daboll.  There were numerous OC candidates with much better credentials -- ie, real success as NFL OCs -- than Daboll.

Name some

[Ayjent]

22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Name some

Norv Turner - great track record with QBs

Mike McCoy - proven OC with success

Todd Haley - another proven commodity, but a jerk

 

All with HC experience as well, and way more success as OCs.  You think DaBoll is a better option?  If so, why?

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Ayjent