The Organizational Incompetence of the Buffalo Bills

[Gordio]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I never agreed with the build for now and the future.  You can't do both.  Beane should've just torn the building down before building it back up.  If you don't want to trade up for your QB in the draft, make sure we suck.  You get what you can out of McCoy (popular player but old for a running back) like they did with Watkins and Darby.  You don't give up a 3rd for Benjamin.  You don't resign Tyrod Taylor.  You don't have to give up Cordy Glenn.  Finishing where we did cost us two 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick because we wouldn't of traded for Benjamin if we sucked.  All picks that could've been used to fill the massive holes we have at a lot of positions. Yes, ending the drought was nice, but long term it may not have been a good thing.  

 

 

The thing that aggravates me is they created by their own stupid doings most of the holes on the roster.  You don't give up on a good young left tackle like Glenn.  Zay Jones is a bust.  Why get rid of AJ, at least he is a veteran & could help guide Allen.  McDermott/Beane are in over their heads & have no idea how to build a team, that much I am confident in.  If Allen does not pan out, they will be fired after next season & they know it too.  I hope it works out with Allen, I really do but I got serious doubts about him.  He was not very good at Wyoming, I watched a lot of his games.  Yes he had nothing to work with, but his accuracy remains a major question mark.  Van Miller once told the one thing you can't teach with a QB is accuracy, either he has it or he doesn't.  He told me that after Losman's first year with the team telling me "he will never make because he is not accurate enough."  Keep in mind that was before he even took a meaningful snap with the Bills.  That statement should scare the hell out of every Bills fan when it comes to projecting Allen's future in this league.  

Edited September 14, 2018 by Gordio

[oldmanfan]

36 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

The thing that aggravates me is they created by their own stupid doings most of the holes on the roster.  You don't give up on a good young left tackle like Glenn.  Zay Jones is a bust.  Why get rid of AJ, at least he is a veteran & could help guide Allen.  McDermott/Beane are in over their heads & have no idea how to build a team, that much I am confident in.  If Allen does not pan out, they will be fired after next season & they know it too.  I hope it works out with Allen, I really do but I got serious doubts about him.  He was not very good at Wyoming, I watched a lot of his games.  Yes he had nothing to work with, but his accuracy remains a major question mark.  Van Miller once told the one thing you can't teach with a QB is accuracy, either he has it or he doesn't.  He told me that after Losman's first year with the team telling me "he will never make because he is not accurate enough."  Keep in mind that was before he even took a meaningful snap with the Bills.  That statement should scare the hell out of every Bills fan when it comes to projecting Allen's future in this league.  

Same old thing here.  Glenn was hurt almost all of last season, and Dawkins filled in admirably.  when you have a guy on a rookie contract performing well at the spot, and you can gain back cap dollars, it's done routinely in the league.  and they needed to move up to get their QB.  McCarron got beat out, although I would say they should now bring in a guy like Anderson to have that more veteran presence to help Allen out.  The accuracy thing has been beat to death around here.

 

It's Allen's show now.  We'll see how he does.

[Doc]

9 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Groy played fine when Wood went down a couple years ago.  He needs to get back to that level.  Your memory is very selective.

 

He did play well.  What's troublesome is his needing to get back to that level.  He should already be there.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He did play well.  What's troublesome is his needing to get back to that level.  He should already be there.

Yep.  Can't figure out what's going on with him.  Scheme is one thing.  Being dominated physically is another.

[billsredneck1]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I think you have a point.  It would have been nice if Richie hadn't lost his mind in the offseason.  And Miller has regressed for whatever reason.

 

to piggy back off of "whose playing next to you", i believe miller struggles at rg are due to playing next to mills.  i also think groy has to be aware of inside stunts coming around ducasse to be any help on the right side.  i can't believe we haven't made any attempt to upgrade the rt spot and i also think playing teller right now at lg couldn't hurt.

[CamboBill]

On 9/14/2018 at 8:44 AM, billsredneck1 said:

.....which is compounded by the fact that we are one snap away from seeing nate again. i can't believe they didn't roll with 3 at least til the deadline.

 

THIS more than anything else has me questioning the competence of the front office.

[BillsFan1988]

On 9/10/2018 at 1:57 PM, BuffaloBillsMagic1 said:

over 50 million in dead cap space says it all...... WRs says it all...OL says it all, special teams say it all.....DL says it all..Murphy, Lawson,. Lo=tuia..all pathetic and Kyle has slowed down and not a starter anymore.  We are old and need replacemnts galore on OL, DL, WRs, OLBs, and Clay, our prozed TE sucks.  Zay Jones is useless and Benjamin does not look like he even tries at times to catch the ball. Letting go of McCaron so no vet to mentor Josh other than Mr. August, Peterman is pitiful.....

Let's throw in the waste of money on Vontae Davis and DiMarco. This org has no clue how to run a professional football team. 

On 9/10/2018 at 3:59 PM, BuffaloRush said:

 

Yes I totally agree.  But did they really underestimate the OL?  Or were there just not many good options out there?  People are forgetting that Beane didn’t have the cap flexibility to sign players like Nate Solder or Andrew Norwell to huge deals.   

 

I guess you could say that they could have drafted some linemen.  But remember the #1 priority in the draft was QB, the second was defense.  There were a lot of needs on this and you can’t all address them at once - especially given the cap situation.  Whether it was OL, LB, WR or whatever other position it’s impossible to fix everything in a year.  This is why I am certain that Beane and McDermott were privately bracing for an off year given the roster they have.  

They had flexibility this is a poor excuse. Star got nearly 10mil per yr to plug holes. Vontae got 5 mil to sit on bench , Murphy got 7 mil to be injured and take more steriods. Stop making excuses for these bums . Call it what it is pure incompetence. 

[JaCrispy]

On 9/14/2018 at 12:54 AM, Doc Brown said:

I never agreed with the build for now and the future.  You can't do both.  Beane should've just torn the building down before building it back up.  If you don't want to trade up for your QB in the draft, make sure we suck.  You get what you can out of McCoy (popular player but old for a running back) like they did with Watkins and Darby.  You don't give up a 3rd for Benjamin.  You don't resign Tyrod Taylor.  You don't have to give up Cordy Glenn.  Finishing where we did cost us two 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick because we wouldn't of traded for Benjamin if we sucked.  All picks that could've been used to fill the massive holes we have at a lot of positions. Yes, ending the drought was nice, but long term it may not have been a good thing.  

Easy bro...you are making way too much sense. 

[SoTier]

On 9/14/2018 at 7:42 AM, Gordio said:

 

 

The thing that aggravates me is they created by their own stupid doings most of the holes on the roster.  You don't give up on a good young left tackle like Glenn.  Zay Jones is a bust.  Why get rid of AJ, at least he is a veteran & could help guide Allen.  McDermott/Beane are in over their heads & have no idea how to build a team, that much I am confident in.  If Allen does not pan out, they will be fired after next season & they know it too.  I hope it works out with Allen, I really do but I got serious doubts about him.  He was not very good at Wyoming, I watched a lot of his games.  Yes he had nothing to work with, but his accuracy remains a major question mark.  Van Miller once told the one thing you can't teach with a QB is accuracy, either he has it or he doesn't.  He told me that after Losman's first year with the team telling me "he will never make because he is not accurate enough."  Keep in mind that was before he even took a meaningful snap with the Bills.  That statement should scare the hell out of every Bills fan when it comes to projecting Allen's future in this league.  

 

Good post.  However be prepared to be attacked by the resident Bills cheerleaders who take it as their mission in life to refute any criticism of whatever stupid moves McDermott and/or Beane make or have made ...

 

23 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Same old thing here.  Glenn was hurt almost all of last season, and Dawkins filled in admirably.  when you have a guy on a rookie contract performing well at the spot, and you can gain back cap dollars, it's done routinely in the league.  and they needed to move up to get their QB.  McCarron got beat out, although I would say they should now bring in a guy like Anderson to have that more veteran presence to help Allen out.  The accuracy thing has been beat to death around here.

 

It's Allen's show now.  We'll see how he does.

 

Well you're right but not in the way you think.  It's the same old Bills manure show that we've seen for the last twenty years, just new names and faces for the incompetents.

 

22 hours ago, Doc said:

 

He did play well.  What's troublesome is his needing to get back to that level.  He should already be there.

 

Groy was playing between Incognito and Miller when all three were playing in a blocking scheme that suited their skill sets in 2016.  He only played in 1 game last year in the new blocking scheme.

 

21 hours ago, billsredneck1 said:

to piggy back off of "whose playing next to you", i believe miller struggles at rg are due to playing next to mills.  i also think groy has to be aware of inside stunts coming around ducasse to be any help on the right side.  i can't believe we haven't made any attempt to upgrade the rt spot and i also think playing teller right now at lg couldn't hurt.

 

It's playing between Ducasse and Miller that's the issue.  Miller played beside Mills in 2016.    Miller struggled in the current blocking scheme last season, which is why he was benched last season.  That may be true of Mills as well.   Again, that's on Dennison and Castillo who took a decent OL from 2016  and decided to force them into their own system even though the Bills continued to have a run-first offense.

[oldmanfan]

28 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Good post.  However be prepared to be attacked by the resident Bills cheerleaders who take it as their mission in life to refute any criticism of whatever stupid moves McDermott and/or Beane make or have made ...

 

 

Well you're right but not in the way you think.  It's the same old Bills manure show that we've seen for the last twenty years, just new names and faces for the incompetents.

 

 

Groy was playing between Incognito and Miller when all three were playing in a blocking scheme that suited their skill sets in 2016.  He only played in 1 game last year in the new blocking scheme.

 

 

It's playing between Ducasse and Miller that's the issue.  Miller played beside Mills in 2016.    Miller struggled in the current blocking scheme last season, which is why he was benched last season.  That may be true of Mills as well.   Again, that's on Dennison and Castillo who took a decent OL from 2016  and decided to force them into their own system even though the Bills continued to have a run-first offense.

Same old thing for years and years, huh?  List the playoff teams last year.

 

you probably won't because you'll be too busy ranting about how Terry just wants to suck money out of your wallet...,

[CamboBill]

On 9/13/2018 at 9:39 AM, Doc said:

 

I'm not missing any point.  Allen is the future at QB.  Get him playing time.  Peterman looked like he earned the starting job in pre-season so they gave him a chance.  He failed miserably.  Even if McCarron were here, I'd still turn to Allen because he's potentially a franchise QB whereas the other guys are not.  There is no need for someone to "absorb snaps" while getting the team nowhere in terms of wins or developing the high-pick QB.

 

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.  From my perspective, protecting and nurturing a possible Franchise QB candidate is THE single most important thing.  We invested a ton to get to a high enough 1st round pick to get him.  It is up to us to see that he is properly developed and put into situations where he can likely succeed.

 

TBH, I know we going to have a bad year this year but I am not even all that stressed about how bad our def looks now.  Sort it out next year.

 

All I want is to see is proper management and grooming of the highest QB prospect we have drafted in ages.

 

We are a bad team -- we cannot just throw him out there sink or swim.

 

We are not off to a good start, with only 2 QB on our roster and one of them is Peterman

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, CamboBill said:

 

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.  From my perspective, protecting and nurturing a possible Franchise QB candidate is THE single most important thing.  We invested a ton to get to a high enough 1st round pick to get him.  It is up to us to see that he is properly developed and put into situations where he can likely succeed.

 

TBH, I know we going to have a bad year this year but I am not even all that stressed about how bad our def looks now.  Sort it out next year.

 

All I want is to see is proper management and grooming of the highest QB prospect we have drafted in ages.

 

We are a bad team -- we cannot just throw him out there sink or swim.

 

We are not off to a good start, with only 2 QB on our roster and one of them is Peterman

Question.  Is it not correct that, to get the protection and nurturing you want, they would have used all their picks on other players and hence would not have drafted the guy you want protected and nurtured?  

 

Different ways to build teams of course.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...so McBeane wraps up his 1st draft/cap cleanup and McD enters his 2nd season career wise as a HC and we're ALREADY incompetent......sure are some potential NFL execs lurking here in the bushes (poison ivy)......think we should have a reunion hire and bring back Russ, Whaley, Marv & Buddy to right this sinking ship....

[Nihilarian]

4 minutes ago, CamboBill said:

 

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.  From my perspective, protecting and nurturing a possible Franchise QB candidate is THE single most important thing.  We invested a ton to get to a high enough 1st round pick to get him.  It is up to us to see that he is properly developed and put into situations where he can likely succeed.

 

TBH, I know we going to have a bad year this year but I am not even all that stressed about how bad our def looks now.  Sort it out next year.

 

All I want is to see is proper management and grooming of the highest QB prospect we have drafted in ages.

 

We are a bad team -- we cannot just throw him out there sink or swim.

 

We are not off to a good start, with only 2 QB on our roster and one of them is Peterman

Well said.

 

The single most important objective right now is protecting that rookie QB so he can develop into a franchise QB. More important than wins, more important than building the defense.

 

That 2nd first round pick at LBer in this years draft while needed and important...an actual NFL center was needed more. That pick in the 3rd round while needed, a better RG was needed more. This regime is making the very same mistake we have seen over and over with new head coaches since the Marv Levy days. We saw it with Jauron, with Gailey, with Marrone, with Mularkey, with Greg Williams. I can't tell you how many draft picks I've seen wasted on DB's over the years. 

 

Because if this young man develops into another Aaron Rodgers the franchise is set at the most important position on the roster for years to come. Plus it will give this team an actually fighting chance to compete in the division against the Patriots.  

 

As it looks right now the Buffalo Bills will be making the first overall selection in the 2019 NFL draft and they will probably need to draft a QB again. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

Well said.

 

The single most important objective right now is protecting that rookie QB so he can develop into a franchise QB. More important than wins, more important than building the defense.

 

That 2nd first round pick at LBer in this years draft while needed and important...an actual NFL center was needed more. That pick in the 3rd round while needed, a better RG was needed more. This regime is making the very same mistake we have seen over and over with new head coaches since the Marv Levy days. We saw it with Jauron, with Gailey, with Marrone, with Mularkey, with Greg Williams. I can't tell you how many draft picks I've seen wasted on DB's over the years. 

 

Because if this young man develops into another Aaron Rodgers the franchise is set at the most important position on the roster for years to come. Plus it will give this team an actually fighting chance to compete in the division against the Patriots.  

 

As it looks right now the Buffalo Bills will be making the first overall selection in the 2019 NFL draft and they will probably need to draft a QB again. 

 

...and that would be because Allen's EXTENSIVE body of work has him as a bust?.....doesn't that contradict your statement "so he can develop"??........what exactly is his allotted "window of development"?.....good Lord the plot thickens............

[vincec]

34 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...so McBeane wraps up his 1st draft/cap cleanup and McD enters his 2nd season career wise as a HC and we're ALREADY incompetent......sure are some potential NFL execs lurking here in the bushes (poison ivy)......think we should have a reunion hire and bring back Russ, Whaley, Marv & Buddy to right this sinking ship....

I agree with giving McDermott some slack. He proved a few things last season, IMO. But I think you’re giving Beane unwarranted credit compared to Whaley and Nix. So far, he hasn’t shown himself to be any better than them. His free agen class has totally stunk and his major accomplishment so far has been dumping decent players for mid to low round draft picks so that the current team is virtually devoid of talent. As I’ve said many times, the goal is to turn draft picks into good players, not to opposite.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, vincec said:

I agree with giving McDermott some slack. He proved a few things last season, IMO. But I think you’re giving Beane unwarranted credit compared to Whaley and Nix. So far, he hasn’t shown himself to be any better than them. His free agen class has totally stunk and his major accomplishment so far has been dumping decent players for mid to low round draft picks so that the current team is virtually devoid of talent. As I’ve said many times, the goal is to turn draft picks into good players, not to opposite.

 

 

....certainly not giving anything to or anointing anyone quite yet......career wise, all three have been in the personnel arena for a number of years at varying levels....Whaley was tutored by Steelers' Colbert who has been GM since 2000....Nix was under AJ in SD for 7 or 8 years....both were tenured longer (I think) than McBeane in the GM role....so if after wrapping up his FIRST draft, you' telling me he has earned his ouster from the coveted TBD "One & Done Gang" , I certainly disagree...comparable credit?...nope.....not a bad start with some mistakes as expected?...yup...........

[BillsfanAZ]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Well said.

 

The single most important objective right now is protecting that rookie QB so he can develop into a franchise QB. More important than wins, more important than building the defense.

 

That 2nd first round pick at LBer in this years draft while needed and important...an actual NFL center was needed more. That pick in the 3rd round while needed, a better RG was needed more. This regime is making the very same mistake we have seen over and over with new head coaches since the Marv Levy days. We saw it with Jauron, with Gailey, with Marrone, with Mularkey, with Greg Williams. I can't tell you how many draft picks I've seen wasted on DB's over the years. 

 

Because if this young man develops into another Aaron Rodgers the franchise is set at the most important position on the roster for years to come. Plus it will give this team an actually fighting chance to compete in the division against the Patriots.  

 

As it looks right now the Buffalo Bills will be making the first overall selection in the 2019 NFL draft and they will probably need to draft a QB again. 

Yes the Oline is bad. No the Bills should not have passed on Edmonds and Phillips to get less talented Olineman. Allen and Edmonds were rated in the top ten over all. If you can get a top ten pick at 16 you do it. There are things the Bills can do scheme wise to help the Oline. 

 

Every QB is different. Ever since that story came out about Harrington everyone thinks Allen is going to be the same type of player. Nobody on this site knows anything about Allen's mental make up so why are you jumping to conclusions that he cant handle it and the Bills will be drafting another QB next year......I hope you were kidding  because aside from Allen suffering a career ending injury the Bills will not be drafting a QB next season.  If they did, McBeane would be looking for new jobs right after the draft. They will sign a vet back up which they should have done this offseason. 

 

It may take a game or two for things to slow down for Allen. What if the Bills defense shows up and Allen does just enough to pull out a win in the next game or two?  

 

I think the Bills backing into the playoffs last year has heightened expectations of fans this season when they should be managed. Too many people are expecting to win now when the Bills are most likely a year or two away from hopefully being a contender. 

[vincec]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....certainly not giving anything to or anointing anyone quite yet......career wise, all three have been in the personnel arena for a number of years at varying levels....Whaley was tutored by Steelers' Colbert who has been GM since 2000....Nix was under AJ in SD for 7 or 8 years....both were tenured longer (I think) than McBeane in the GM role....so if after wrapping up his FIRST draft, you' telling me he has earned his ouster from the coveted TBD "One & Done Gang" , I certainly disagree...comparable credit?...nope.....not a bad start with some mistakes as expected?...yup...........

Stripping the team of most of their talent and bringing in a crop of useless free agents IS a bad start, IMO. That’s my concern. Hopefully drafting Allen will bail him out but he hasn’t done much to help the rookie out. He couldn’t find a mentor or transitional QB, he has a crap OL to protect him and no WR to throw to.

[ColoradoBills]

32 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

Yes the Oline is bad. No the Bills should not have passed on Edmonds and Phillips to get less talented Olineman. Allen and Edmonds were rated in the top ten over all. If you can get a top ten pick at 16 you do it. There are things the Bills can do scheme wise to help the Oline. 

 

Every QB is different. Ever since that story came out about Harrington everyone thinks Allen is going to be the same type of player. Nobody on this site knows anything about Allen's mental make up so why are you jumping to conclusions that he cant handle it and the Bills will be drafting another QB next year......I hope you were kidding  because aside from Allen suffering a career ending injury the Bills will not be drafting a QB next season.  If they did, McBeane would be looking for new jobs right after the draft. They will sign a vet back up which they should have done this offseason. 

 

It may take a game or two for things to slow down for Allen. What if the Bills defense shows up and Allen does just enough to pull out a win in the next game or two?  

 

I think the Bills backing into the playoffs last year has heightened expectations of fans this season when they should be managed. Too many people are expecting to win now when the Bills are most likely a year or two away from hopefully being a contender. 

 

It not just about the draft picks.  It's fine to use the top 3 the way they did.

Bills had plenty of money to sign at least one well above average OLman during FA.

What is bad about that is there was an unusual amount of good Center FAs available.

Bills picked a cheap one and how has that worked out?