The Organizational Incompetence of the Buffalo Bills

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....the whole shtick is pathetically laughable 'round these parts.....absolutely NO ONE knew this was to be a transitional year.......cap cleanup/jettison dead wood & malcontents/spending constraints are all "outta the blue" shockers.......why even TBD'ers forecasted 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 as well as a 3 "W's" thrown in for good measure....yet the Peace Bridge is loaded with jumpers, the Razor Club is offering free wrist slittings and season tix are being burned in effigy.....so the first game was a woeful stinker......to paraphrase....fire McBeane....fire Mc D....fire Daboll...fire the Rockpile Beerman (not sure what the hell HE did)....for starters....

 

.so all of the "forecasts" went by the wayside when the Bills chalked up their first (UGLY) loss towards the L"L" prognostications of 12, 11 10 or even 13.....a tad bi-polar I would say.....however, OTAG is a bit "perturbed" with the following observations:.....this club was woefully unprepared which starts right at the top with your HC.......secondly, Frazier, Daboll and Castillo were our proverbial "Moe, Larry & Curly" on the painful Sunday....ZERO answers or counter punches versus a formidable Ravens club....talent level is obviously questionable in this transition year, but you scheme to your personnel's strengths (save the "ain't got none crap) and at least show some semblance of a counter punch whether weak or not.....

 

do I question some personnel moves?...damn right.....gonna focus solely on QB spot.....Peterman had a good camp & pre-season, ALL with rubber bullets......so McCarron is instantly expendable......weak TC and pre-season?...of course....guy comes back post injury to play the 4th with obvious ring rust, but tepidly rebounds in the last quarter.....so McBeane dumps him for a coveted and HIGHLY desirable 5th.....pick or bottle?.....knowing the REALISTIC of the QB position, namely Peterman's performance with "live ammo" and Josh still learning, garnering a HIGHLY valuable 5th is the right move?....sure this gang will make gaffes as they move along but the misjudgment about being "set at QB" is inexcusable IMO........

Edited September 13, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[SoTier]

On 9/12/2018 at 1:58 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t really know where to put his but is anyone else a little terrified that twice Sean McDermott thought Nathan Peterman was capable of starting an NFL game? 

 

Absolutely.  IMO, he shouldn't have been on the roster in 2017, and shouldn't be on the roster this season.  At best he might become a backup QB, but that would be after he'd hung around the NFL for a few years on the practice squad.  He doesn't have a good enough arm to ever be a starter for an NFL team.  At present, he doesn't have the experience and knowledge to make him a realistic backup prospect, either.   He's played okay against other backups in preseason, but he's clearly not up to playing QB against first teamers when games count.  I'm completely mystified how an NFL HC can not see that and name him the starter -- twice.

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

19 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

McCarron was the worst QB on the roster.

He was at least functional, showed moxie in the final ps game and actually started and finished a playoff game a few years ago. Peterman cannot play in the league. 

[Bing Bong]

I'd literally have any GM in our drought history than Beane. Note just before he arrived we improved the secondary overnight. Note ever since he joined the Bills he's downgraded every position, lest we forget he thought Matthews would replace Watkins, and cut that dude for a Panthers team more that happy to dump his Butterfingers. Note that McDermott denied tanking and took our biggest strength at secondary (pre Beane) and made the playoffs with this Beaneless QB making do with NO WRs, along with several other Whaley's guys on offense Beane didn't have time to dump. Note that following that Beane had a full off-season to gut the offense such that every defender sat week 1 watching Peterman force them onto the field to the point they gave up.

 

McDermott's alright by me. He broke the drought. Remind me again what Beane's role on the roster was last year's playoff run? Mostly getting picks.

 

Beane simply didn't have enough time to gut the roster before our secondary led us to the end of the drought. He needed an offseason

[SoTier]

15 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

It may or may not he the Carr situation; that will be determined by the mental makeup of the player.  Allen seems pretty tough.  

Plus the two situations are somewhat dissimilar.  Houston was an expansion franchise.  It was going to take them a while to build in the trenches.  Buffalo got caught with an unexpected retirement and a perhaps slightly predictable losing of the mind of two good players.  They felt Groy could do the job at one and hopefully he gets his head out of his butt and starts playing the way he did a couple years ago.  The other one I hope a rookie comes in and starts soon.  Either way they have 10 picks and millions of cap dollars next year to address this, so Allen may have one year behind a suspect line vs. several that Carr had.

 

The Bills' talent level is expansion level, so how are they THAT dissimilar to an actual expansion team?.  

 

McDermott and Beane are the ones who need to get their heads out of their butts.  Groy was an UDFA who bounced around various teams' PS until the Bills signed him in 2015.  He was never good enough to challenge Wood in his tenure with the Bills.  That he's better than Russell Bodine doesn't imply that Groy is a starting caliber player but simply demonstrates just how poor a signing Bodine was.

[Fadingpain]

19 hours ago, CamboBill said:

Not as bad as Peterman --- and he was an experienced guy who can absorb snaps

Wait.  You're suggesting Peterman was worse than AJ?  

 

Peterman was 33 for 41, 431 yds, 80.5 completion %, 10.5 yards per pass, 3 TD, 1 INT, and a QB rating of 124.7.

 

AJ was 23 for 50, 284 yds, 46.0 completion %, 5.7 yards per pass, 3 TD, 2 INT, QB rating 67.4.  

 

What are you smoking and can you please mail me some?

 

 

 

 

[billsfan89]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Harrison got $9.25M/year 2 years ago.  Given the way salaries rise, $10M/year is about right.  But yes, he'll have to earn it.  Just pointing out that he did what he was brought in here to do against the Ravens and it's way too early to make any judgments.

 

Snacks when he got that contract was coming off of being a top run defender in the league for back to back seasons with the Jets, Star had not been as successful or highly rated in his previous seasons. I think that Star should have been in the 6-8 AAV range as opposed to 10. I think the FO overbid on a player based off of being familiar with him.

 

Now that's not to say that I don't think Star can't be productive and anchor the run defense, but rather that they overpaid for him and if his contract is a bust that's a huge negative on the FO. 

 

Where I am concerned with the front office is their pro-personnel evaluations. The 2017 draft looks to be a good draft (White, Dawkins, and Milano will look like hits and if Zay Jones could be productive the draft will go from good to great) and I like what they did in the 2018 draft (Although it will be heavily dependent on Allen panning out.) 

 

But if they can't improve their pro-personnel decision then they won't be able to supplement the roster with the free agents needed and all that cap space become a lot less useful. 

[Fred Clause]

On 9/10/2018 at 7:33 AM, nucci said:

and many think a top pick next year fixes everything

3 or 4 top picks certainly is a start

[billsredneck1]

On 9/12/2018 at 9:36 PM, CamboBill said:

That is just frightening and made all the worse by trading away the only non-rookie alternative to peterman.

.....which is compounded by the fact that we are one snap away from seeing nate again. i can't believe they didn't roll with 3 at least til the deadline.

[billsredneck1]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Absolutely.  IMO, he shouldn't have been on the roster in 2017, and shouldn't be on the roster this season.  At best he might become a backup QB, but that would be after he'd hung around the NFL for a few years on the practice squad.  He doesn't have a good enough arm to ever be a starter for an NFL team.  At present, he doesn't have the experience and knowledge to make him a realistic backup prospect, either.   He's played okay against other backups in preseason, but he's clearly not up to playing QB against first teamers when games count.  I'm completely mystified how an NFL HC can not see that and name him the starter -- twice.

 

 

well guess what? when ducasse gets pushed backwards and steps on josh's ankle,  nate will be named the starter thrice....we need to pray....and i still support nate. that ravens game had some seriously sucky weather. they couldn't even keep a damn camera lens clear an apparently didn't try to... it was like watching a game in the mid 70's.

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The Bills' talent level is expansion level, so how are they THAT dissimilar to an actual expansion team?.  

 

McDermott and Beane are the ones who need to get their heads out of their butts.  Groy was an UDFA who bounced around various teams' PS until the Bills signed him in 2015.  He was never good enough to challenge Wood in his tenure with the Bills.  That he's better than Russell Bodine doesn't imply that Groy is a starting caliber player but simply demonstrates just how poor a signing Bodine was.

Groy played fine when Wood went down a couple years ago.  He needs to get back to that level.  Your memory is very selective.

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Wait.  You're suggesting Peterman was worse than AJ?  

 

Peterman was 33 for 41, 431 yds, 80.5 completion %, 10.5 yards per pass, 3 TD, 1 INT, and a QB rating of 124.7.

 

AJ was 23 for 50, 284 yds, 46.0 completion %, 5.7 yards per pass, 3 TD, 2 INT, QB rating 67.4.  

 

What are you smoking and can you please mail me some?

 

 

 

 

 

How do their regular season game stats compare?  Peterman choked hard and that's all it is.

 

17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Groy played fine when Wood went down a couple years ago.  He needs to get back to that level.  Your memory is very selective.

 

To me Groy is still an unknown.  He had 11 starts in 4 years.  His handful of Center starts was next to a seasoned pro bowler and his QB

could escape 2 D lineman in a phone booth.  The next handful of games will tell what he really is capable of.

[Doc Brown]

I never agreed with the build for now and the future.  You can't do both.  Beane should've just torn the building down before building it back up.  If you don't want to trade up for your QB in the draft, make sure we suck.  You get what you can out of McCoy (popular player but old for a running back) like they did with Watkins and Darby.  You don't give up a 3rd for Benjamin.  You don't resign Tyrod Taylor.  You don't have to give up Cordy Glenn.  Finishing where we did cost us two 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick because we wouldn't of traded for Benjamin if we sucked.  All picks that could've been used to fill the massive holes we have at a lot of positions. Yes, ending the drought was nice, but long term it may not have been a good thing.  

Edited September 14, 2018 by Doc Brown

[Socal-805]

On 9/10/2018 at 5:13 AM, Keukasmallies said:

Wow, just a long line of excuses.  I'm afraid that neither the coaches nor the GM can see a way out of their dilemma at this point.  The remainder of the season will  be very interesting in terms of realignment of the organization's thinking.  Imagine the Pegula's thoughts this morning....

 

Maybe Kim can come in and do some GM magic and fix this thing!?!?!

 

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I never agreed with the build for now and the future.  You can't do both.  Beane should've just torn the building down before building it back up.  If you don't want to trade up for your QB in the draft, make sure we suck.  You get what you can out of McCoy (popular player but old for a running back) like they did with Watkins and Darby.  You don't give up a 3rd for Benjamin.  You don't resign Tyrod Taylor.  You don't have to give up Cordy Glenn.  Finishing where we did cost us two 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick because we wouldn't of traded for Benjamin if we sucked.  All picks that could've been used to fill the massive holes we have at a lot of positions. Yes, ending the drought was nice, but long term it may not have been a good thing.  

 

+ 100 %

 

 

[SoTier]

6 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Groy played fine when Wood went down a couple years ago.  He needs to get back to that level.  Your memory is very selective.

 

FYI, how an OLer plays in games is influenced by how well or poorly the OLer(s) beside him play.  That's why teams can have decent/good OLs even when not all the OL personnel are particularly good.  Furthermore, like all football players, OLers are better at doing some things than others.  Between 2016 when Groy played 7 games for Pro Bowler Eric Wood and 2018 when he was named starting center, the Bills OL underwent a major transformation which significantly undermined its effectiveness, including a new OL coach, Juan Castillo, and a new blocking scheme that the OLers struggled to adjust to.

 

In 2016, Groy played between Pro Bowl LG Richie Incognito and promising rookie RG John Miller under OL coach Aaron Kromer who used a blocking scheme that suited the lineman the  Bills had.  In 2018, Groy is playing between career back RG Vlad Ducasse who was moved to LG and RG John MIller who struggled in OL coach, Juan Castillo's, blocking scheme last year.   Miller never really adjusted as he was benched early on and never challenged Ducasse for the starting position.   Groy played in 1 game in 2017 in Castillo's scheme, so there's no evidence that he adjusted to the new blocking scheme any better than Mtiller.  It's entirely possible that the only reason Groy and MIller are starting is because the dogs the Bills signed in FA are even worse.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by SoTier

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I never agreed with the build for now and the future.  You can't do both.  Beane should've just torn the building down before building it back up.  If you don't want to trade up for your QB in the draft, make sure we suck.  You get what you can out of McCoy (popular player but old for a running back) like they did with Watkins and Darby.  You don't give up a 3rd for Benjamin.  You don't resign Tyrod Taylor.  You don't have to give up Cordy Glenn.  Finishing where we did cost us two 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick because we wouldn't of traded for Benjamin if we sucked.  All picks that could've been used to fill the massive holes we have at a lot of positions. Yes, ending the drought was nice, but long term it may not have been a good thing.  

 

And that's why last year I was arguing for the tank to happen.

 

But NO. Was shouted down then.

 

[SoTier]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I never agreed with the build for now and the future.  You can't do both.  Beane should've just torn the building down before building it back up.  If you don't want to trade up for your QB in the draft, make sure we suck.  You get what you can out of McCoy (popular player but old for a running back) like they did with Watkins and Darby.  You don't give up a 3rd for Benjamin.  You don't resign Tyrod Taylor.  You don't have to give up Cordy Glenn.  Finishing where we did cost us two 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick because we wouldn't of traded for Benjamin if we sucked.  All picks that could've been used to fill the massive holes we have at a lot of positions. Yes, ending the drought was nice, but long term it may not have been a good thing.  

 

Maybe the Bills should have thought ahead in 2017 and taken Mahomes or Watson rather than trading back.  When the opportunity to draft a franchise QB presents itself, a smart organization acts while an incompetent one trades back and takes a DB.

Edited September 14, 2018 by SoTier

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Maybe the Bills should have thought ahead in 2017 and taken Mahomes or Watson rather than trading back.  When the opportunity to draft a franchise QB presents itself, a smart organization acts while an incompetent one trades back and takes a DB.

 

Broken record is broken.

 

[WideRightRevenge]

On 9/12/2018 at 10:49 AM, CamboBill said:

Looks like Allen is starting ... ready or not .... because our management incompetently gave away our only other alternative.

 

Let the official derailing of this kids career begin.  No blockers.  No Receivers.  Few who really give a damn.

 

The good news is that Bosa looks to be out so the over under on how many times Allen gets sacked is down to 5. lol.

 

Yuck.

 

We can only hope and pray for the best --- that is what happens when management fails to create contingency plans.

 

Should be right at home .. given the talent of his Wyoming team .. we'll see what happens

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

FYI, how an OLer plays in games is influenced by how well or poorly the OLer(s) beside him play.  That's why teams can have decent/good OLs even when not all the OL personnel are particularly good.  Furthermore, like all football players, OLers are better at doing some things than others.  Between 2016 when Groy played 7 games for Pro Bowler Eric Wood and 2018 when he was named starting center, the Bills OL underwent a major transformation which significantly undermined its effectiveness, including a new OL coach, Juan Castillo, and a new blocking scheme that the OLers struggled to adjust to.

 

In 2016, Groy played between Pro Bowl LG Richie Incognito and promising rookie RG John Miller under OL coach Aaron Kromer who used a blocking scheme that suited the lineman the  Bills had.  In 2018, Groy is playing between career back RG Vlad Ducasse who was moved to LG and RG John MIller who struggled in OL coach, Juan Castillo's, blocking scheme last year.   Miller never really adjusted as he was benched early on and never challenged Ducasse for the starting position.   Groy played in 1 game in 2017 in Castillo's scheme, so there's no evidence that he adjusted to the new blocking scheme any better than Mtiller.  It's entirely possible that the only reason Groy and MIller are starting is because the dogs the Bills signed in FA are even worse.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you have a point.  It would have been nice if Richie hadn't lost his mind in the offseason.  And Miller has regressed for whatever reason.

 

I think there are scheme issues, and if I'm Daboll and McD I'd be going crazy on Castillo right now.  But my impression is that it is mostly a physical thing.  I looked at last week, and also looked at the Bengals preseason game.  Here's Ducasse, he weights like 330.  Groy and Miller each go around 300-310.  They have simply been dominated physically.  I don't know how a 330 lb guard can literally just get shoved right back 5 yards as if he's a rag doll.  Groy and MIller routinely get blown up.  That's just terrible to me, and the reason why I'd be perfectly happy if they started Teller and Ike Sunday.  From preseason it looks like at least they wouldn't get blown up like that.