Is it time for Kaepernick?

[PolishPrince]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dont lump me in with fanatical society, sorry thats just not whats going on here.

 

You actually just prove more of your biased opinion in your statements.  You let MONEY impact on whats fair or not.  It doesn't matter how much MONEY Kap does or does not have.  People like you keep going down this bulls*t narrative that because he has money he cant possibly be treated unfairly.  His PERSONAL WEALTH has literally NOTHING to do with determining what is right or wrong.  The fact you bring up money like so many others tells me you are incapable of being rational about the actual situation.  This is where I firmly leave this conversation, the moment anyone starts talking about how he doesn't deserve to complain or deserve to be treated better because he already has money is just utterly ridiculous and has absolutely ZERO...and I mean ZERO relevance to his situation.  

 

All good man, we will agree to disagree.  This is my last reply, its not worth discussing anymore.  Doesn't make you or me right or wrong, its just going down directions that are useless, irrelevant, and are real pet peeves of mine.  Just cant stand when people try and act like people can't complain when treated unfairly because they have money when most people cant fathom the amount of work, sacrifice, and dedication it took to be in position to make that money in the first place...regardless if earned in sports, business, etc.  

You are right, his personal wealth shouldn't effect it... and it doesnt overall. I NEVER SAID he doesnt deserve to complain, or be treated unfairly because he is wealthy - literally never said this ever. I DID say it is "hard to feel sorry about 'sacrificing everything' " which is an opinion, and how I feel  - again never said he deserves to get treated differently lol.

So for someone asking to not be lumped in with other Kap supporters, do not take my words completely out of context as an attempt against me.

[eanyills]

3 minutes ago, PolishPrince said:

"if, as I suspect." again ... its all assumption with as of now 0 proof, its literally your guess. If I am an NFL owner, and I think Kap is the difference of getting into playoffs or a super bowl... I dont give a crap what another owner says or wishes. Im going to sign him if I think it's worth it... and if these owners try screwing me for doing so - then you take their threats/blackmail whatever to the police/media.....

 

 

But it does matter what your own owner thinks. If your owner is a conservative (and a majority of the owners are old money conservatives), they may simply not sign off on employing Kap.

 

and that’s perfectly legal. When an owner does sign off on Kap, maybe it’s just not a fit, they don’t need a QB, or they don’t want a PR circus.

 

There’s no collusion.

[Boatdrinks]

Interesting how some people just cannot accept that you do what your employer wants ( if it is legal of course) OR you go work somewhere else. What could be more fair than that ? Let’s not pretend that money hasn’t always been the determining factor in what does or doesn’t get done in business. It’s just business after all. Nike proved that just as much as the NFL. Does Kaep take a knee for every dollar he gets at the expense of an exploited worker in a third world sweatshop? What a hero. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, PolishPrince said:

You are right, his personal wealth shouldn't effect it... and it doesnt overall. I NEVER SAID he doesnt deserve to complain, or be treated unfairly because he is wealthy - literally never said this ever. I DID say it is "hard to feel sorry about 'sacrificing everything' " which is an opinion, and how I feel  - again never said he deserves to get treated differently lol.

So for someone asking to not be lumped in with other Kap supporters, do not take my words completely out of context as an attempt against me.

 

All good, and like I said you brought up his money and thats just a massive pet peeve of mine the moment anyone does.  Again, we can peacefully agree to disagree overall...its not personal, we dont have to be on the same page.  You are entitled to all your opinions just as I am even I we strongly disagree on some points.  You won't change my mind, nor do I expect to change yours.  We both expressed our sides, all good.  

[PolishPrince]

3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Interesting how some people just cannot accept that you do what your employer wants ( if it is legal of course) OR you go work somewhere else. What could be more fair than that ? Let’s not pretend that money hasn’t always been the determining factor in what does or doesn’t get done in business. It’s just business after all. Nike proved that just as much as the NFL. Does Kaep take a knee for every dollar he gets at the expense of an exploited worker in a third world sweatshop? What a hero. 

This is what is so ironic about Nike having this SJW ad and movement going forward. Meanwhile they have a laundry list of Human Rights complaints against them, but because they use Kap as a poster child suddenly a lot of SJW types love Nike? It's really weird to me.

As a disclaimer since some people have tried making me like some crazy hateful nutcase. I will still buy Nike when I need/want an item. I like their product/quality on some things and I will still buy them, thats how I base my purchases. People who burn their stuff are stupid too.

 

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

All good, and like I said you brought up his money and thats just a massive pet peeve of mine the moment anyone does.  Again, we can peacefully agree to disagree overall...its not personal, we dont have to be on the same page.  You are entitled to all your opinions just as I am even I we strongly disagree on some points.  You won't change my mind, nor do I expect to change yours.  We both expressed our sides, all good.  

Fair enough broski (thats Polish for bro by the way). Glad we can come to a reasonable end

[mannc]

6 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Interesting how some people just cannot accept that you do what your employer wants ( if it is legal of course) OR you go work somewhere else. What could be more fair than that ? 

Not every workplace is the same.  These are union employees in a highly specialized field. Therefore, they don’t necessarily have to “do what their employer wants”.  Get it?

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Interesting how some people just cannot accept that you do what your employer wants ( if it is legal of course) OR you go work somewhere else. What could be more fair than that ? Let’s not pretend that money hasn’t always been the determining factor in what does or doesn’t get done in business. It’s just business after all. Nike proved that just as much as the NFL. Does Kaep take a knee for every dollar he gets at the expense of an exploited worker in a third world sweatshop? What a hero. 

 

Dog Killers.  People Killers.  Woman Beaters.  Child Abusers.  All good, let em play right...as long as they help you win.  

 

...but screw the guy who gave millions to charity and tons of his time to help kids and his community BEFORE ever taking a knee because he was tired of the ethnic imbalance in and injustice in our law enforcement and legal systems.  That guy is the monster *sarcasm* 

 

And just curious...where was your Nike sweatshop backlash the rest of your life when you, your friends, your family were all sporting something Nike before the Kap campaign?

Edited September 10, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Gugny]

30 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Right....this thread predictably (maybe that’s why it was started?) disintegrated into the same old. Allow me to try to refocus a bit:  assume Kap didn’t carry the anthem baggage. Would you prefer bringing him in as a backup/bridge starter, or would you prefer one or more of the other unsigned veteran QBs out there? 

 

I wanted the Bills to bring him in two years ago.  At this point - no - since they drafted Allen and Tyrod is gone.  But before?  You betcha and yes, over any other unsigned veteran QB out there.

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

I wanted the Bills to bring him in two years ago.  At this point - no - since they drafted Allen and Tyrod is gone.  But before?  You betcha and yes, over any other unsigned veteran QB out there.

Thanks. Any others out there who would bring in Kap solely based on on-field performance? I would, even now. Why not? Would he upset the fragile winning culture of Nate Peterman’s locker room?  Would having him start half a dozen games while Allen digests the playbook and how to read NFL defenses set Allen back in any way? Would he give you a worse chance to win than Peterman/Allen, even if you named him starter for next Sunday’s game?  Of course not. So it all comes down to the anthem stand (umm, kneel) and maybe money. Money I get. The anthem thing I don’t, since there’s a bunch of other kneelers playing every Sunday. 

[PolishPrince]

9 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Thanks. Any others out there who would bring in Kap solely based on on-field performance? I would, even now. Why not? Would he upset the fragile winning culture of Nate Peterman’s locker room?  Would having him start half a dozen games while Allen digests the playbook and how to read NFL defenses set Allen back in any way? Would he give you a worse chance to win than Peterman/Allen, even if you named him starter for next Sunday’s game?  Of course not. So it all comes down to the anthem stand (umm, kneel) and maybe money. Money I get. The anthem thing I don’t, since there’s a bunch of other kneelers playing every Sunday. 

Which is why I dont believe in the collusion aspect.

I personally believe its strictly about money, and the unwanted constant media attention. Seriously, imagine if Baltimore brought him in as a backup, and lets even assume Kap takes a paycut for a backup roll. Lets say Flacco (who is not great, but I think pretty decent and consistent) has a crapper of a game... I can just see the media like vultures and all the attention "SO IS KAP GOING TO START NOW, ARE YOU JUST HOLDING HIM BACK" - which I will admit isn't fair to Kap necessarily and not fully his fault... but sadly its a reality for the media and I think what a lot of teams are taking into account.

[Boatdrinks]

20 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dog Killers.  People Killers.  Woman Beaters.  Child Abusers.  All good, let em play right...as long as they help you win.  

 

...but screw the guy who gave millions to charity and tons of his time to help kids and his community BEFORE ever taking a knee because he was tired of the ethnic imbalance in and injustice in our law enforcement and legal systems.  That guy is the monster *sarcasm* 

 

And just curious...where was your Nike sweatshop backlash the rest of your life when you, your friends, your family were all sporting something Nike before the Kap campaign?

Never liked Nike. They’re too narrow, I think I bought one pair when I was in HS and that was it. Where was your backlash? Personally, I didn’t think Mixon should play in the NFL. It’s not up to me, though. The NFL is a business, and will do as they see fit to make money. That’s what businesses do. I’m not sure how they’re any different than Nike, they’ve just made a different choice. I think Kaep is scum, doesn’t mean I approve of others you referenced. They shut up and never put down the country. Smart business move. Perhaps the USA needs stronger DWI laws? Of course, you’d probably think stronger laws is code for racism. This is about football and business. 

[Lfod]

The grass is always greener on the other side. 

[Boatdrinks]

33 minutes ago, mannc said:

Not every workplace is the same.  These are union employees in a highly specialized field. Therefore, they don’t necessarily have to “do what their employer wants”.  Get it?

Why not ? I get the Union part, the specialization really means next to nothing. No different than any other business. There are work rules and all that, but no company owes anyone a platform to express their personal views. Get it ?

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Never liked Nike. They’re too narrow, I think I bought one pair when I was in HS and that was it. Where was your backlash? Personally, I didn’t think Mixon should play in the NFL. It’s not up to me, though. The NFL is a business, and will do as they see fit to make money. That’s what businesses do. I’m not sure how they’re any different than Nike, they’ve just made a different choice. I think Kaep is scum, doesn’t mean I approve of others you referenced. They shut up and never put down the country. Smart business move. Perhaps the USA needs stronger DWI laws? Of course, you’d probably think stronger laws is code for racism. This is about football and business. 

 

You see, there you go.  No one said anything about Nike (and they make more than shoes) before this Kap ad.  Jus like how you didn't rant online about it, didn't lecture your friends or family to protest Nike, etc.  It was a non issue, just like ALL the crap people buy thats made over seas in poor conditions, because if you think its limited to just Nike or shoes, then you are naive.  

 

So sorry, I dont want to hear about no sweat shop garage from people who wear, eat, and use all kinds of things daily made in poor conditions across the world by all kinds of brands.  And why should Joe Mixon get kept out of the NFL if guys who did worse have not?  I find this selective reasoning fascinating to be honest.  If Mixon cant play, then none of the others should have been allowed to play either.  And, Kap never harmed a single person, while these others killed animals, people, and abused women and children.  So its not even comparable circumstances.

 

I also find it interesting you called Kap scum when he has done more good for kids, communities, and people than probably this whole board combined BEFORE he ever even started kneeling.  Let me know when you give millions to kids and communities...let me know when you give countless hours of your time to help children, youth programs, and charities.  I actually do some myself, but even I cant hold a candle to how much Kap actually did.  You think he is scum because he stood for something he believed just because you dont approve of the forum he chose to do it.  Yet you dont know Kap at all as a person, he is a media creation you have bought hook line and sinker.  

 

Im ok if people disagree with his choice of forum, but to call him scum shows me you know nothing about the man and choose to make this about you not about the reality of what really happened.  I would bet everything I own in my life that 98% of the people upset that he doesn't stand are also NOT standing when watching the game at home or in a bar.  Every single person I know closely that is pissed he doesn't stand, has never even once stood themselves when I have watched games with them, unless in the stadium.  Country full of hyorocites who aren't standing themselves.  The last 2 years, I have yet to be in any bar where anyone has stood for the national anthem even once, in fact, they dont even have the courtesy to stop talking, drinking or eating during it.

 

PS:  He never trashed the country, he never trashed the military...what he said was trash is our social injustice, and he is right, it is trash and something that still needs to change here.

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Why not ? I get the Union part, the specialization really means next to nothing. No different than any other business. There are work rules and all that, but no company owes anyone a platform to express their personal views. Get it ?

No one said the league owes anyone anything, but they don't necessarily get to dictate to the players and not all work rules can be implemented unilaterally.  Many issues must be collectively bargained, including (probably) whether the league is allowed to discipline players for kneeling during the national anthem.   

[row_33]

1 hour ago, eanyills said:

 

 

But it does matter what your own owner thinks. If your owner is a conservative (and a majority of the owners are old money conservatives), they may simply not sign off on employing Kap.

 

and that’s perfectly legal. When an owner does sign off on Kap, maybe it’s just not a fit, they don’t need a QB, or they don’t want a PR circus.

 

There’s no collusion.

 

even if collusion is proven he gets $1 and they may treble the penalty to $3

 

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You see, there you go.  No one said anything about Nike (and they make more than shoes) before this Kap ad.  Jus like how you didn't rant online about it, didn't lecture your friends or family to protest Nike, etc.  It was a non issue, just like ALL the crap people buy thats made over seas in poor conditions, because if you think its limited to just Nike or shoes, then you are naive.  

 

So sorry, I dont want to hear about no sweat shop garage from people who wear, eat, and use all kinds of things daily made in poor conditions across the world by all kinds of brands.  And why should Joe Mixon get kept out of the NFL if guys who did worse have not?  I find this selective reasoning fascinating to be honest.  If Mixon cant play, then none of the others should have been allowed to play either.  And, Kap never harmed a single person, while these others killed animals, people, and abused women and children.  So its not even comparable circumstances.

 

I also find it interesting you called Kap scum when he has done more good for kids, communities, and people than probably this whole board combined BEFORE he ever even started kneeling.  Let me know when you give millions to kids and communities...let me know when you give countless hours of your time to help children, youth programs, and charities.  I actually do some myself, but even I cant hold a candle to how much Kap actually did.  You think he is scum because he stood for something he believed just because you dont approve of the forum he chose to do it.  Yet you dont know Kap at all as a person, he is a media creation you have bought hook line and sinker.  

 

Im ok if people disagree with his choice of forum, but to call him scum shows me you know nothing about the man and choose to make this about you not about the reality of what really happened.  I would bet everything I own in my life that 98% of the people upset that he doesn't stand are also NOT standing when watching the game at home or in a bar.  Every single person I know closely that is pissed he doesn't stand, has never even once stood themselves when I have watched games with them, unless in the stadium.  Country full of hyorocites who aren't standing themselves.  The last 2 years, I have yet to be in any bar where anyone has stood for the national anthem even once, in fact, they dont even have the courtesy to stop talking, drinking or eating during it.

 

PS:  He never trashed the country, he never trashed the military...what he said was trash is our social injustice, and he is right, it is trash and something that still needs to change here.

Man , you seem too invested in this lol... Not true,  I read stuff about Nike decades ago. It was out there, and this was way before the internet was a thing. Just never fit my feet well, I liked saucony and ASICS . Whatever. Yep, Kaep trashed the country. He said the country oppresses him and others like him. I don’t believe this is true, the country does none of this. He’s also against cops. That’s all I need to know about the man, really. Nobody in bars stands for the anthem. Some in the stands don’t, but there are idiots everywhere. I don’t like CKs chosen  forum for sure, but the message is even worse. It’s way overblown and just flat wrong in a lot of ways. I still think he’s a mediocre football player that’s not worth an ounce of the trouble, aside from being ignorant on many points. 

6 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

even if collusion is proven he gets $1 and they may treble the penalty to $3

 

Lol... a la the USFL. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Man , you seem too invested in this lol... Not true,  I read stuff about Nike decades ago. It was out there, and this was way before the internet was a thing. Just never fit my feet well, I liked saucony and ASICS . Whatever. Yep, Kaep trashed the country. He said the country oppresses him and others like him. I don’t believe this is true, the country does none of this. He’s also against cops. That’s all I need to know about the man, really. Nobody in bars stands for the anthem. Some in the stands don’t, but there are idiots everywhere. I don’t like CKs chosen  forum for sure, but the message is even worse. It’s way overblown and just flat wrong in a lot of ways. I still think he’s a mediocre football player that’s not worth an ounce of the trouble, aside from being ignorant on many points. 

 

Time for us to agree to disagree too.  Nothing you just said is actually accurate or factual in terms of Kap what he is against.  All good, we are Bills fans, this will be a agree to disagree case too.  Its not personal, but I strongly disagree with just about every thing you have said and at this point, we have both said our sides and neither of us is required to agree with the other or change our stance.  I tried to leave already, but admittedly let your convo suck me back in.   GO BILLS.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Boatdrinks]

8 minutes ago, mannc said:

No one said the league owes anyone anything, but they don't necessarily get to dictate to the players and not all work rules can be implemented unilaterally.  Many issues must be collectively bargained, including (probably) whether the league is allowed to discipline players for kneeling during the national anthem.   

Probably true, and I completely “ get” that. You’re very condescending. The league could, however discontinue the practice of playing the anthem altogether. They don’t have to allow “ protests”. They actually may be legally allowed to say , give players a choice of standing or staying in. We don’t know. 

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Time for us to agree to disagree too.  Nothing you just said is actually accurate or factual in terms of Kap what he is against.  All good, we are Bills fans, this will be a agree to disagree case too.  Its not personal, but I strongly disagree with just about every thing you have said and at this point, we have both said our sides and neither of us is required to agree with the other or change our stance.  I tried to leave already, but admittedly let your convo suck me back in.   GO BILLS.

I’m not going to change your mind, and I don’t care. He did wear cop /pig socks and his statements show he cleary is ignorant of and doesn’t understand use of force. He made those statements I mentioned , it’s a fact. You can look it up or choose to be ignorant of it/ brush it off. It’s all good. Go Bills. 

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

The Ravens said they offered him a contract, and he refused. Your other points have been refuted time and again. There is no American right to “ peacefully protest” on the job , and the NFL doesn’t owe anyone a platform to express their views on anything. They are a business, just like Nike. Kaep apologists don’t want to accept that. The guy is mediocre at football , and is bad for business in many ways. The first part isn’t enough to keep him from an NFL job, combined with the latter it is. 

If you really think he's bad for business, you may want to rethink that. The country is changing, and the a-hole who milks the issue the most has very low approval ratings. I'm not saying he's great for business, but I think the idea that he's bad for it is not based on any real evidence.