So this is “The Process”?

[BeginnersMind]

19 hours ago, pop gun said:

That's where I have the problem, it didn't have to be. They were an average team, a tweak here or there the right way could have made them a lot better than average. 

 

There was no need to jettison everybody who was worth a damn in the name of "process" to become a terrible team, for what, their own guys? High first round pick, they just had that, twice in 2018. McBean better hope this team is good enough soon enough or McBean isn't going to be around too long.  Today was pathetically unacceptable! 

 

Last year's wins were smoke and mirrors, as you know. That was a miraculous season in terms of results for what was closer to a 5-11 team in talent. The only reason they got to 9-7 was because of crazy turnover ratios in the first several games of the season. 

 

So take the 5 win team and add some spice of: Incognito loses his mind and Woods retires. That's not something they could have predicted. Now draft a guy at #7 that they need to develop (and they do), and you also have a first round talent who's not helping this season, which makes them worse. 

 

Then add that last year, they were getting *some* production from the players they are paying 47 million in dead cap space to this year. (The only guy with moderate talent that they gave up for little was Dareus and his was the worst of all contracts. )

 

All this amounts to what is, indeed, a building process. When the Sixers used "Trust the Process," all the fans knew that it meant they would be tanking for a few years to get good picks and jettison terrible contracts. And slowly build a culture. It did not happen in 2 years, or even 4. And it was not a steady rise. You cannot fix something this broken (You do remember Rex Ryan right? Not to mention decades of awful management...this team has barely a draft pick on it from the last 5 years!) in a couple years. It will take a whole bunch of years for the organization and team to reflect what this duo+Kim is trying to do, and this year should be the worst one. 

 

If you want to attack Star, AJ, Davis, and Murphy signings, I get it. But with the exception of AJ, they are on one-year deals and never part of the future. Beane took a flyer that some vets might help patch something together this season. After one game, I won't judge all of those decisions but I also don't care much. Of course I want them to win, but I'd rather have 3-13 this year, clear this cap hell they are in, and look for improvement next year. If this team isn't markedly better after year 4, with a better cast of players and a team trending upwards towards what looks like several years of playoff appearances, there's a problem. Right now, there's not.

 

What I know won't work: Firing another coach/GM after 17 games like the "Fan Owners" want. That's been proven for, umm, 30 ish years in Buffalo.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by BeginnersMind

[reddogblitz]

23 hours ago, Skins Malone said:

I like McD but i understand why fans are upset.  Yes its just one game but 47 to 3...it was awful.  Eventually this team needs to start building on success and not going backward.  Its just seems like its always one step forward two steps back.  Eventually it has to be win now and not a rebuild.  

 

I always thought once we broke the drought it would be time to win, not time to rebuild.

 

But this is not really different from what we've don the last 2 times we went 9-7 before and when we made the POS before that.

 

2000 - Made the playoffs 2 years in a row but lose inhearbreaker PO  losses.  Time to reload and make another run?  No, run off the QB and rebuild.

 

In 2004 we had a really good defense and a team that came back from some bad losses due to "push outs" and other bad calls.  Then won 7 out of last 9 or whatever it was.  Team has some serious mojo workin'.  time to reload and made a run? no, time to cut your QB and rebuild with a second year QB and re do our Defense.

 

2014 - We have a great run and get to 9-7.  time to re load?  No, time to rebuild again. This time the QB left on his own. (Not tirelessly bills fault).

 

2017 - We break the drought.  Won 5 out of last 7.  Serous mojo.  Time to re laod and make a serious run?  Of course not.  It's not what we do.   Run off the QB and go with a 2nd year guy and rook.

 

If I though the Bills could actually get worse on purpose to get better and actually get better I might be for it.  But I don't.

 

What do they say about doing the same thing and expecting different results?

 

Nobody shoots themselves in the foot like the Buffalo Bills.

26 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

Last year's wins were smoke and mirrors, as you know. That was a miraculous season in terms of results for what was closer to a 5-11 team in talent. The only reason they got to 9-7 was because of crazy turnover ratios in the first several games of the season. 

 

I don't know that and I call BS.

 

The Team didn't win because they were lucky, they won because they came together as a team and were better than the sum or their parts.  they stoppped finding new ways to lose like they had for years.  Found ways to win instead.  Down 7 with 3:00 to go vs Bucs, we win by 3.  Snow game we win instead of losing like past teams would have.

 

that's a good thing.

 

I agree with pop gun.  We should have re loaded and made a run for it.

[QCity]

11 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I don't know that and I call BS.

 

 

It was an absolute fluke. The team had a -57 point differential and the offense and defense were ranked near the bottom of the league. There wasn't a single piece on that team worth building around. That's the truth. The offseason is over, it''s time to face reality.

[Klaista2k]

22 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

 

you're crazy if you think this team can win 4 games

You're right.

 

After yesterday I think 0-16 is a real possibility. 

[zow2]

If the process is releasing players that look pretty good on the field but maybe not the perfect fit for “culture”, then the process stinks.  You think everyone that John Harbaugh keeps on the Ravens is a choir boy?!?  No. But he understands when you have to keep guys that straddle the line 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, QCity said:

 

It was an absolute fluke. The team had a -57 point differential and the offense and defense were ranked near the bottom of the league. There wasn't a single piece on that team worth building around. That's the truth. The offseason is over, it''s time to face reality.

 

No, that's your opinion.

[downunderbill]

23 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Because we have an absurd amount of free money, 10 draft picks and (hopefully) a franchise QB at the helm. Just suffer one year and we can do it. 

 

My thoughts exactly. Dump everyone absorb a bad year and re-tool.

I don't think it's going to be as bad against the Chargers. All Allen needs to do is get some first downs Android not gas the defence. 

But what ever happens is going to be a fun year on TSW, just need to find that bipolar medicine.

[QCity]

26 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

No, that's your opinion.

 

It really isn't.

[Nihilarian]

R-E-L-A-X guys. 

 

Most realists looked at this team this year and knew it was going to be a tough road. What we didn't expect was a performance like we saw against the Ravens. The team came out flat and got hammered pretty quickly. 

 

We learned that Nate Peterman is not now, nor never will be the answer at QB for this team. We also learned that Brian Daboll's quick strike, a pass-first offense isn't going to work with these players. Kinda like Dick Jauron wanting a no-huddle offense and cutting his OC two weeks before the opener and his starting RT because he couldn't get to the line fast enough... then after two weeks that no-huddle was scrapped.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 9/9/2018 at 5:24 PM, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

As Bills fans we’ve become very good at coming up with excuses for why other teams are better than us

 

I read it as giving a reason, not an excuse: other teams are better than us because they have better players

[Happy]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I read it as giving a reason, not an excuse: other teams are better than us because they have better players

 

Right now, more experienced players; we don't know what we have yet in some of these young guys.  We have a fairly young team, and the older vets (save Shady), haven't been stepping up - think Clay and Benjamin.

[TSOL]

I do think this whole Peterman debacle is going to end up defining McDermott the way the stupid Sammy Watkins trade defined Whaley. From McD benching Tyrod last year for him, when it was clear at that point that Peternuts wasn't NFL quality. To McD thinking he was gonna go through this season selling Peterman to the fans, the simple fact that McD thought Peterman was in any way shape or form a NFL Qb is ridiculous. And going into the season with only him and Allen is an epicly stupid decision all together. 

 

To the process, I say pshaw

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Right now, more experienced players; we don't know what we have yet in some of these young guys.  We have a fairly young team, and the older vets (save Shady), haven't been stepping up - think Clay and Benjamin.

 

Erm, the average age on both offense and defense is 27 - and that's with 4 young guys (QB, Zay Jones, Dawkins, Miller) starting on offense and 4 guys 29 or older.  We have 4 young guys (White, Milano, Edmunds, Shaq) starting on defense and 4 guys 29 or older.  So that would make 8 guys plus some backups where we might not know what we have yet, and 14 guys where what they are is pretty well established.  And our coaches seem to think it's pretty well established that 2 of the 8 (Miller and Shaq) are tenuous.  Jones did not look good last year, though I'm in the "give him time" camp myself.  I'm not quite sure, but I don't think that's a particularly young team.

 

I repeat, other teams are better than us because they have better players.  You're correct that some of the older vets haven't been stepping up.  That's part of being a better player.

 

Now maybe this is the horrid tank year and next year, we'll magically hit on every draft pick and sign splended FA.  A number of those old vets who mostly aren't stepping up were signed by the current coach/GM (Benjamin, Kerley, Ducasse, Lotulelei who is the big-buck, big guarantee guy, P. Gaines and not starting Trent Murphy and Vontae Davis), which kind of worries me about our talent identification abilities, but maybe that's just me.

 

I'm concerned - not off the rails, not calling for heads, just concerned - that @BADOLBILZmay be correct that these are guys who feel that character is more important than talent, when really you need talent and willingness to put forth poop-in-your-pants ache-all-over effort every play on game day - which may not be what McDermott defines as character.

[Happy]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Now maybe this is the horrid tank year and next year, we'll magically hit on every draft pick and sign splended FA.  A number of those old vets who mostly aren't stepping up were signed by the current coach/GM (Benjamin, Kerley, Ducasse, Lotulelei who is the big-buck, big guarantee guy, P. Gaines and not starting Trent Murphy and Vontae Davis), which kind of worries me about our talent identification abilities, but maybe that's just me.

 

It's not just you, I think others are wondering the same thing, myself included.  I want to give Beane the benefit of the doubt that he's working under a tight cap situation where he can't afford to sign a better player at this time.  They were interested in Mack, but didn't have the resources to acquire him, so Beane knows more talent is needed.  Just right now he can only go after bargain basement players.  Star may end up being his biggest mistake thus far.

[wppete]

[Batman1876]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Erm, the average age on both offense and defense is 27 - and that's with 4 young guys (QB, Zay Jones, Dawkins, Miller) starting on offense and 4 guys 29 or older.  We have 4 young guys (White, Milano, Edmunds, Shaq) starting on defense and 4 guys 29 or older.  So that would make 8 guys plus some backups where we might not know what we have yet, and 14 guys where what they are is pretty well established.  And our coaches seem to think it's pretty well established that 2 of the 8 (Miller and Shaq) are tenuous.  Jones did not look good last year, though I'm in the "give him time" camp myself.  I'm not quite sure, but I don't think that's a particularly young team.

 

I repeat, other teams are better than us because they have better players.  You're correct that some of the older vets haven't been stepping up.  That's part of being a better player.

 

Now maybe this is the horrid tank year and next year, we'll magically hit on every draft pick and sign splended FA.  A number of those old vets who mostly aren't stepping up were signed by the current coach/GM (Benjamin, Kerley, Ducasse, Lotulelei who is the big-buck, big guarantee guy, P. Gaines and not starting Trent Murphy and Vontae Davis), which kind of worries me about our talent identification abilities, but maybe that's just me.

 

I'm concerned - not off the rails, not calling for heads, just concerned - that @BADOLBILZmay be correct that these are guys who feel that character is more important than talent, when really you need talent and willingness to put forth poop-in-your-pants ache-all-over effort every play on game day - which may not be what McDermott defines as character.

Tre, Dawkins, Milano, Allen, Edmunds and Phillips give me reason to feel positive. Those are good young players. Although realistically Allen is the only one that matters. 

[Happy]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I'm concerned - not off the rails, not calling for heads, just concerned - that @BADOLBILZmay be correct that these are guys who feel that character is more important than talent, when really you need talent and willingness to put forth poop-in-your-pants ache-all-over effort every play on game day - which may not be what McDermott defines as character.

 

That sounds reminiscent of the Dick Jauron era (shaking as I type that).  Larry Tripplett, for example, was a character guy who got pushed around at the DT spot.  I really hope their definition of character is one of give full effort, do your job, be focused, and don't be a screw up.

[Jauronimo]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:05 PM, The Senator said:

 

Mc Stupid puts the least prepared, most undertalented, most undisciplined, most undercosched squadron the field, and starts perhaps the worst QB of all time, and we’re supposed to”trust the process”?

Did you know Trust the Process is an anagram for Shutter Corpses????  I just listened to McD's presser played in reverse and I think I heard the voice of Tom Donahoe telling me to drink babies blood. Spooky. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by Jauronimo

[reddogblitz]

7 hours ago, QCity said:

 

It really isn't.

 

It really is.

[Skins Malone]

21 hours ago, nucci said:

like making the playoffs last year?

Clearing that was the point of the post...you must not have understood.  That would be the success.  But we need to build on that.  Not make the playoffs and then have another garbage year where we are "rebuilding"