Our Problem... Josh Allen Can't Win

[Midwest1981]

... and not in the way you think.  In fact, it may have very little to do with him.  But it's his situation- THIS situation- that makes it inherently difficult for him, as well as the Bills.  Let me explain.  First of all, what I was afraid would happen if Peterman won the job HAS happened.  Not just "Joe" (largely informed) "Fan" but also the media- Colin Cowherd each of the last two days has corroborated this, to cite but one example- are snickering at Peterman starting because of the "five picks in one half" performance he may never live down.  And Peterman beating out Allen naturally leads to more snickers, "Wow, if Josh Allen can't even beat out Nathan Peterman"... Josh Allen can't win from the perspective that it was widely acknowledged leading up to the draft, even among Allen supporters, that he required patience.  But then when he's granted that patience it's not because he's not ready as much as it's perceived he'll never be ready, if he can't beat up the "abominable" likes of Nathan Peterman.

 

That's just one problem.

 

The other problem is... this is the NFL in 2018.  How patient are Bills fans- and the Bills themselves- willing to be?  I'm absolutely willing to be patient; Allen has demonstrated enough to make me believe that he isn't the fundamentally lost cause many summarily dismissed him as pre-draft... but the Bills' surrounding cast, skill position "weaponry" and especially our offensive line, has also demonstrated enough that they could really threaten to undo any of the progress Allen has made and have him running for his life, locking onto targets, suffering mechanically, and even suffering serious injury (we were all lucky he remained unscathed from preseason's week #3) if he's out there playing any time soon.

 

I understand that trading up for Allen/Edmunds cost of 5 of our top-65 picks.  But it was still inexcusable to do so little with our remaining draft capital- not until deep in day #3- to provide some offensive help for the highest QB we've ever taken.  Yes, I know that will be addressed in time, specifically next offseason.  But QB's don't get the same time now that they used to.

 

Yes, I'm willing to be patient.  But in the new CBA (signed 7 years ago)... QB's are MUCH easier to move on from than before- the financial commitment/entanglement is just no longer there.  We didn't sign Allen to a 6-year, $78 million dollar deal with $50 million guaranteed like Sam Bradford did in 2010 (or Stafford the year before... or Alex Smith four years before, who lasted 8 years in San Francisco despite atrocious early career play).  Remember the outcry by many when Doug Marrone benched E.J. Manuel after week #4 of just his sophomore season?  "You don't- you CAN'T- bench a QB after just 15-20 starts!?  He needs at least 30."  Well, we did, and other than a week 17 game in 2016 to spite Tyrod and the recently fired Rex Manuel never started another game.  

 

Just two years ago the Broncos traded up in the 1st-round to draft Paxton Lynch.  Well, a mere four starts later- those four starts were evidently enough- and he's not only not starting; he isn't even on Denver's roster.  There's also some consensus that 2016 #1 overall pick Jared Goff was another really bad year in 2017- if it resembled 2016- from quite possibly the Rams looking for the next guy.

 

I'm not saying that any of this is right- I'm just saying that it 'is,' at least how other teams have operated recently, given that the CBA allows teams to extricate out of lesser high 1st-round contracts and given irrationally impatient owners & fanbases.  I'm willing to give Allen the time he needs but Buffalo must be, too.  And unfortunately we don't have an Alex Smith having his best statistical season and leading the Chiefs to a divisional title to obscure that our rookie is sitting.  Instead we have Nathan Peterman and the jokes that follow.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Midwest1981

[Warcodered]

So what your saying is you wish we had a better QB to start so Josh would sit longer?

[ddaryl]

posters / thread starters need to stop over thinking this stuff

[greeneblitz]

I agree with the OP 100%

[Bangarang]

I have no idea what’s going on here. Can anyone explain it like I’m 5?

[Augie]

The Bills don’t care what Cowherd or anyone else is saying. I think they have all the patience they need, and maybe the OP needs some trust to go with the professed patience. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

If you need Colin Cowherd to corroborate your opinion i might suggest you refrain from starting posts.  And I dont get your point here, so your Bronco example traded up for Lynch, they moved.  You have to pick the QBs and see if they work,. if Allen craps out like lunch, Bills will do the same thing reload in a few years.  So what is the point.  You have to pick the QBs and take a chance, there are very few locks like PEyton Manning.

[HOUSE]

I have the answer but someone is at the door..

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

I have no idea what’s going on here. Can anyone explain it like I’m 5?

Another poster upset that Colin Cowherd and other media members are making jokes at Peterman/Allen's expense with hints of insecurity and hidden "I didn't want Allen" agenda mixed in. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Another poster upset that Colin Cowherd and other media members are making jokes at Peterman/Allen's expense with hints of insecurity and hidden "I didn't want Allen" agenda mixed in. 

I for one and just bored to tears with sloppy lazy 5 ints in one half "analysis".

[TheElectricCompany]

Yes, he can. He'll play this year and hopefully look great. 

If he looks terrible, then yeah, the boo birds are going to fly. 

[LeGOATski]

It's a tough spot for him to be in, for sure. He just needs to block out the noise. None of it matters. It's reactionary.

 

If Josh works hard and does well, the noise will sound like a symphony again.

 

Even if the team sucks, Josh can still come out a winner. He just needs to prove it on the field.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, RoyBatty is alive said:

I for one and just bored to tears with sloppy lazy 5 ints in one half "analysis".

I agree with that. But until Nate provides them something else to talk about...that is who he is. Its up to Peterman to show all the work he put in during the off-season was beneficial. 

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I have no idea what’s going on here. Can anyone explain it like I’m 5?

 

If I could, I would, but it’s all kinda fuzzy to me too. I think he wants a Pro Bowl QB now....so we don’t have to play Allen now. Or maybe let him play and suck forever, but possibly.....something else....like give him time to get good. I think it’s in there somewhere. 

 

Whatever it is, he can’t win... so I think we’ve ruled out him being good already, despite our patience. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Augie

[wppete]

We need to get the season started already because we are starting to lose it on here.

Edited September 5, 2018 by wppete

[mjt328]

Who cares what anyone thinks? 

 

At some point Josh Allen will get on the field, and he will either sink or swim.

It's really that simple.

 

If Allen turns into a Pro-Bowl/Franchise quarterback, all the armchair critics will simply forget everything they said against him.

[Tatonka68]

Learning from the bench in an oxymoron. An idiotic neanderthal idea. Learn something by not doing it. How does that actually make sense to people? Allen played with a bad offensive line and bad receivers in Wyoming nothing new here. 

[Alphadawg7]

I am struggling to connect anything you just said to the thread title...

 

Not one person in the NFL cares about statements from Colin or any other chickened in the media.  And both Beane and McD stated from day 1 they will NOT RUSH Allen along, so its not remotely a surprise he isnt starting week 1.  The only surprise is that Nate beat out AJM, not that he beat out Allen.  

 

And for the last time, you can NOT build an entire roster up in ONE offseason.  They made moves to grab the QB's they needed...the QB in Allen then the "QB" of the defense in a Edmunds.  Both are young, both are here for the future.  To get top level prospects it takes assets, and we made the moves necessarily to BOTH get those key prospects they coveted at VERY important positions, but also clear our Cap space for next year to be in a great Cap situation for the future.  

 

Its quite possible we will take a step back this year with our win/loss record, but all the moves to date are not about winning this year, its about the future and winning for years to come.  All this panic and freaking out about this year is ridiculous and people are way too short sighted to see just how well we are set up for next year from the cap, young prospects, and the draft.  It will certainly be an offensive heavy FA and Draft offseason next year I am sure to put weapons and blockers around Allen.  

[Midwest1981]

First of all, this isn't an anti-Allen angle at all.  He's shown enough for me, even if it hasn't been with and against the 1st's (at least beyond training camp), that he has some unique talent and is making strides.  I just hope that the Pegula's, and other Bills fans, are willing to truly live with the growing pains.

 

Rex wasn't given two full years.  That was the right move and- yes- breaking the Playoff drought built up a lot of cache and goodwill- but McBeane and Allen may require three full years (excluding last year).  Allen may not start this year and if he does the results may not be pretty, even if he's mostly absolved of blame because we haven't set him up well to immediately succeed.  Then next year the results should improve but it might be incremental- we could see modest improvement as it takes some time for a newly-configured offensive line to gell and for Allen to build rapport with new skill position players.

 

Even if things go well, it may not be until year #3 that we see what we all hope to.  That might mean a 3/4 win 2018 followed by a 5-7 win 2019.

 

I said the other day in another thread I started that I'm not terribly worried about this season because it's fundamentally about Allen learning his craft and - if/when he gets on the field- gradually getting better, plus us developing other guys who represent our future (like Edmunds).

 

But we must all be prepared to live with the likely growing pains, from ownership on down.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Midwest1981

[4_kidd_4]

I’m not reading that.