Peterman/Brees comparison?

[iinii]

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Um no one thought Saints made a mistake, he was the premiere FA that year.  And everyone thought and knew Saban and Dolphins made a mistake not signing him first.  Dolphin fans remain bitter to this day over it.

 

This board loves to find people to make comparisons too, but sorry Brees is an awful choice of a comparison.  Bree’s has never at any point been incapable of effectively using any part of the field.  Meanwhile, Peterman is a legit liability when using the sidelines from the pocket.  

 

Let me tell you what doesn’t matter...distance, which does not correlate with velocity.  Just like 40 yard dash times doesn’t equate to full pads elslusoveness, acceleration, and speed.  In a test the QBs will load up to throw as far as they can, but in real game action you have split seconds to wind up and deliver a short throw with velocity.  And NP has struggled with that undeniably while guys like Brady and Brees (2 guys people keep comparing NP too) have never.  

 

I would love for NP to become a Brees like story, but honestly it’s just lazy and baseless to make the comparison right now.  NP hasn’t even shown he can win a game yet, let alone be anything close to 2 of the most prolific passers in NFL history.  Not to mention, NP doesn’t even play the same style of game as either Brees or Brady, I mean it’s just a lazy comparison just because they aren’t known for their arm strength either when their games and styles are totally different.  

Exactly. Just as Bum Phillips or Ditka said, I don’t care what his 40 time is, I want to know how fast he can get to the football. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, RPbillsfan said:

Sadly your gonna get roasted for your take but Le me join you in your comparison.  Very comparable skill set and for those that don't remember (I'm a native Hamburg resident who relocated to San Diego) Bree's had two very shaky years at the beginning leading the Chargers to draft Phillip Rivers.  Then in his 3rd season Bree's got it and started on his path to a hall of fame career.

 

Does Nate Peterman have the intangibles to succeed at a Drew Bree's level?  That's yet to be determined, however in a limited body of work all lot of the same attributes that Bree's has to make him a great QB do show in Peterman's play.

 

I think that the fans in Buffalo will see Nate on another team in a climate controlled stadium do very well in the future as Josh Allen is our future number 1.  Let's hope that the Bree's/Rivers scenario plays out in both Buffalo and in Nate's new team in the future

Why on earth would a Bills fan hope for a Brees / Rivers scenario for Allen and Peterman ?Last time I checked , one of those guys is going to the hall of fame and won a Super Bowl after the team that drafted him moved on. I know I don’t want that to happen here and most Bills fans would likely agree. Once Nate Peterman is no longer a Bill, I don’t want him to accomplish jack squat in the NFL. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, TigerJ said:

Interestingly, arm strength was a knock on Drew Brees when he came out of college.  I think he's worked on it, which can be done, and which Nate has done this past offseason.  So, yeah, that is somewhat of a similarity.

 

I defer if someone can provide links to different profiles, but I don't see it...nope, nothing in here on poor arm strength or lacking velocity.  Says he lacks accuracy and touch on deep balls.

 

To me, comparing Drew Brees with his passing record smashing college career, Purdue record for completion percentage, and gorgeous footwork/mechanics even then with Peterman is air-dreaming.  Brees didn't draft higher for two reasons - he's short, and he played from the shotgun in a spread offense.  Brees took several years to adjust to the NFL, possibly because of poor support (rumor has it Flutie was not a good QB room/locker room teammate).

Mayfield should send thank-you notes to Brees and Russ Wilson as their success is a major reason why he went #1 overall.

 

Begin past-in:

NFL Draft Scout from https://forums.chargers.com/archive/index.php/t-26178.html

#15 QB Drew Brees, Purdue, 6-0/213/4.83
Class/Draft Year: Sr/2001
Projected Round: 1-2
Rated number 2 out of 28 QB's

Overview
The unquestioned leader of the Boilermakers’ offense and one of the school’s most decorated athletes...The three-year starter shattered virtually every school passing record and also made his marks on the Big Ten Conference and NCAA Division 1-A record charts...Ranks fourth in NCAA annals with 1525 pass attempts, 942 pass completions and 11,815 yards in total offense (NCAA does not recognize bowl stats)...Including post-season action, he holds the Boilermaker and conference career-records with 1026 completions of 1678 passes for 11,792 yards, 90 touchdown tosses and 12,692 yards in total offense...His pass completion percentage of .611 set another Purdue all-time record...Only player in Big Ten Conference history to throw for over 500 yards in a game twice in a career...Threw for over 400 yards seven times, over 300 yards sixteen times and over 200 yards twenty-seven times during his career...Tied Wisconsin tailback Ron Dayne’s (1996-99) Big Ten Conference record by earning Player of the Week honors eight times during his career.

Analysis
Positives... Touch passer with the ability to read and diagnose defensive coverages...Confident leader who knows how to take command in the huddle...Very tough and mobile moving around in the pocket...Has a quick setup and is very effective throwing on the move... Throws across his body with great consistency...Hits receivers in stride and improvises his throws in order to make a completion...Puts good zip behind the short and mid-range passes...Shows good judgement and keen field vision...Has a take-charge attitude and is very cool under pressure...Hits receivers in motion with impressive velocity...Has superb pocket presence and uses all of his offensive weapons in order to move the chains...Has solid body mechanics and quickness moving away from center...Elusive scrambler with the body control to avoid the rush.
Negatives...Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun...Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws...Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment.

[Elite Poster]

8 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Brees has a weaker arm than Peterman...http://www.pass2win.com/ball-velocity-exposing-the-power-qb.html

 

Drew Brees has never been known for having a cannon, but he makes up for that with timing, deadly accuracy, and technique.

 

 

I've been making comparisons to Brees and Peterman for a while based mostly on the way they play and the situation they found themselves in on their rosters. Time will tell if he's able to put it together, but he's a smart kid who doesn't get rattled, and his skill set is shared by many really good QBs. He's got a hell of a mountain to climb, and I'm just hoping he gets that chance.

 

Started two games last year, had a chance to make something magical happen in his hometown in the playoffs, and now won the starting job. Is there any other fifth round QB that has had more chances in the history of the NFL?

 

Also find it HILARIOUS how people are downplaying the importance of arm strength because this thread is about homering over Peterman, but if we discuss Josh Allen, those physical attributes become important all of a sudden. 

 

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I defer if someone can provide links to different profiles, but I don't see it...nope, nothing in here on poor arm strength or lacking velocity.  Says he lacks accuracy and touch on deep balls.

 

To me, comparing Drew Brees with his passing record smashing college career, Purdue record for completion percentage, and gorgeous footwork/mechanics even then with Peterman is air-dreaming.  Brees didn't draft higher for two reasons - he's short, and he played from the shotgun in a spread offense.  Brees took several years to adjust to the NFL, possibly because of poor support (rumor has it Flutie was not a good QB room/locker room teammate).

Mayfield should send thank-you notes to Brees and Russ Wilson as their success is a major reason why he went #1 overall.

 

Begin past-in:

NFL Draft Scout from https://forums.chargers.com/archive/index.php/t-26178.html

#15 QB Drew Brees, Purdue, 6-0/213/4.83
Class/Draft Year: Sr/2001
Projected Round: 1-2
Rated number 2 out of 28 QB's

Overview
The unquestioned leader of the Boilermakers’ offense and one of the school’s most decorated athletes...The three-year starter shattered virtually every school passing record and also made his marks on the Big Ten Conference and NCAA Division 1-A record charts...Ranks fourth in NCAA annals with 1525 pass attempts, 942 pass completions and 11,815 yards in total offense (NCAA does not recognize bowl stats)...Including post-season action, he holds the Boilermaker and conference career-records with 1026 completions of 1678 passes for 11,792 yards, 90 touchdown tosses and 12,692 yards in total offense...His pass completion percentage of .611 set another Purdue all-time record...Only player in Big Ten Conference history to throw for over 500 yards in a game twice in a career...Threw for over 400 yards seven times, over 300 yards sixteen times and over 200 yards twenty-seven times during his career...Tied Wisconsin tailback Ron Dayne’s (1996-99) Big Ten Conference record by earning Player of the Week honors eight times during his career.

Analysis
Positives... Touch passer with the ability to read and diagnose defensive coverages...Confident leader who knows how to take command in the huddle...Very tough and mobile moving around in the pocket...Has a quick setup and is very effective throwing on the move... Throws across his body with great consistency...Hits receivers in stride and improvises his throws in order to make a completion...Puts good zip behind the short and mid-range passes...Shows good judgement and keen field vision...Has a take-charge attitude and is very cool under pressure...Hits receivers in motion with impressive velocity...Has superb pocket presence and uses all of his offensive weapons in order to move the chains...Has solid body mechanics and quickness moving away from center...Elusive scrambler with the body control to avoid the rush.
Negatives...Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun...Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws...Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment.

 

I think you are my favorite poster here. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Elite Poster

[Hapless Bills Fan]

57 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I remember people used to complain we would just hand the job to our QB. Now we have a legit open competition and people complain we didn't hand the job to our QB. You'll never make everyone happy.

 

Haha well.  I'm not 100% sure the competition was as legit and open as people looking from the outside may think.  The key IMO is to look at the play calling in PS Game 1 vs Game 3.  But be that as it may, it was open enough - if Allen's field vision and ability to read a basic D were where they need to be to start in the NFL, he had his opportunity.  They aren't, and he wasn't able to seize it.  Peterman is the better NFL QB right now despite Allen's obvious superior physical gifts.

 

All that said, you have a legit point.  People would complain if we just gifted some QB the job, now people are complaining because we didn't.  SMH

 

 

[Mikey152]

8 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Brees has a weaker arm than Peterman...http://www.pass2win.com/ball-velocity-exposing-the-power-qb.html

 

Drew Brees has never been known for having a cannon, but he makes up for that with timing, deadly accuracy, and technique.

 

 

I've been making comparisons to Brees and Peterman for a while based mostly on the way they play and the situation they found themselves in on their rosters. Time will tell if he's able to put it together, but he's a smart kid who doesn't get rattled, and his skill set is shared by many really good QBs. He's got a hell of a mountain to climb, and I'm just hoping he gets that chance.

 

 

Something you have to realize is measuring ball velocity at the combine is not a separate test where the QB is intentionally trying to throw as hard as they can...it is measured when they are going through the passing drills.  So while some QBs might try and throw with max or near-max velocity, others (especially those who are less accurate or throw very hard) might try to take something off to throw a more accurate, catchable ball.

 

As an overall list, it's useful information...but it's also not an end all, be all.  

 

Also, for the record Josh Allen was at like 62 mph at the combine. 

[BmarvB]

Peterman has earned the right to be the starter, but not be spoken in the same sentence as Drew Brees. He hasn't been around long enough to accomplish that much, but I do hope he does well in his role here with the us.

[RPbillsfan]

56 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Why on earth would a Bills fan hope for a Brees / Rivers scenario for Allen and Peterman ?Last time I checked , one of those guys is going to the hall of fame and won a Super Bowl after the team that drafted him moved on. I know I don’t want that to happen here and most Bills fans would likely agree. Once Nate Peterman is no longer a Bill, I don’t want him to accomplish jack squat in the NFL. 

I'm sure you have no knowledge of the type of person either Drew Bree's or Nate Peterman is.  I've met and had a chance to get to know to Drew Bree's.  Very classy person and fine family man.  Don't know Peterman but I hope he is every bit a good man as Drew Bree's and hope he has a long and successful career once his time in Buffalo is done.

 

You sir, should hope the people who know you don't have the same opinion of your future success in your chosen profession.

 

Maybe you should apologize to the people on this board for your classless statement.

[transient]

Oh, wait... NOW I understand the comparison.  Yeah... yeah... I can see the resemblance.

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by transient

[Gordio]

I could already hear Gus Johnson announcing one of our games this year & when Peterman tosses the go ahead TD with under a minute left ole Gus will say "Drew Brees, Maybe!"  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I remember people used to complain we would just hand the job to our QB. Now we have a legit open competition and people complain we didn't hand the job to our QB. You'll never make everyone happy.

 

Super Bowl wins make people happy. I know eagles fans. I’ve seen it first hand 

[TigerJ]

46 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I defer if someone can provide links to different profiles, but I don't see it...nope, nothing in here on poor arm strength or lacking velocity.  Says he lacks accuracy and touch on deep balls.

 

To me, comparing Drew Brees with his passing record smashing college career, Purdue record for completion percentage, and gorgeous footwork/mechanics even then with Peterman is air-dreaming.  Brees didn't draft higher for two reasons - he's short, and he played from the shotgun in a spread offense.  Brees took several years to adjust to the NFL, possibly because of poor support (rumor has it Flutie was not a good QB room/locker room teammate).

Mayfield should send thank-you notes to Brees and Russ Wilson as their success is a major reason why he went #1 overall.

 

Begin past-in:

NFL Draft Scout from https://forums.chargers.com/archive/index.php/t-26178.html

#15 QB Drew Brees, Purdue, 6-0/213/4.83
Class/Draft Year: Sr/2001
Projected Round: 1-2
Rated number 2 out of 28 QB's

Overview
The unquestioned leader of the Boilermakers’ offense and one of the school’s most decorated athletes...The three-year starter shattered virtually every school passing record and also made his marks on the Big Ten Conference and NCAA Division 1-A record charts...Ranks fourth in NCAA annals with 1525 pass attempts, 942 pass completions and 11,815 yards in total offense (NCAA does not recognize bowl stats)...Including post-season action, he holds the Boilermaker and conference career-records with 1026 completions of 1678 passes for 11,792 yards, 90 touchdown tosses and 12,692 yards in total offense...His pass completion percentage of .611 set another Purdue all-time record...Only player in Big Ten Conference history to throw for over 500 yards in a game twice in a career...Threw for over 400 yards seven times, over 300 yards sixteen times and over 200 yards twenty-seven times during his career...Tied Wisconsin tailback Ron Dayne’s (1996-99) Big Ten Conference record by earning Player of the Week honors eight times during his career.

Analysis
Positives... Touch passer with the ability to read and diagnose defensive coverages...Confident leader who knows how to take command in the huddle...Very tough and mobile moving around in the pocket...Has a quick setup and is very effective throwing on the move... Throws across his body with great consistency...Hits receivers in stride and improvises his throws in order to make a completion...Puts good zip behind the short and mid-range passes...Shows good judgement and keen field vision...Has a take-charge attitude and is very cool under pressure...Hits receivers in motion with impressive velocity...Has superb pocket presence and uses all of his offensive weapons in order to move the chains...Has solid body mechanics and quickness moving away from center...Elusive scrambler with the body control to avoid the rush.
Negatives...Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun...Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws...Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment.

I was going by memory, and memory can be faulty.  Googling the subject pretty much only shows the assessment you've already quoted.  So, with my apologies, I withdraw my assertion about his college scouting reports.

[Kirby Jackson]

Should the Bills trade Mario for Skelton?

[apuszczalowski]

One was the 2nd QB draft pick in his draft class and had scouting reports listing him as a starter in the NFL. The other was drafted in the 5th with scouting reports listing him as being a potential backup in the NFL. One has broken records for passing in the league, the other broke a record for passing to the ball to the other team. 

 

It's amazing what some decent stats in the preseason can do for a player......

[starrymessenger]

Obviously Brees is light years ahead of Peterman in most if indeed not all factors relevant to performance at the all important position. But arm strength is probably not the item that most accounts for the obvious gap in ability. First of all it should be recognized that "arm strength" in this context has relatively little to do with the strength of that part of the human anatomy. In football "arm strength" comes more from the core, hips and legs than the "arm" as such. In fact you absolutely do not want your QB relying on the strength of his arm and why good mechanics are essential to both velocity and accuracy - we should now all be familiar with this for obvious reasons i.e. Josh Allen.

Drew Brees is a great passer not because his arm is strong but because he is smart, can make pre and post snap reads, has great field vision enabling him to go through his progressions quickly and smoothly, and because his throwing mechanics are absolutely impeccable making for very high rpms on his ball that promote accuracy and velocity. While his arm strength has declined somewhat with the years it is these other things that have permitted him to continue playing at a very high level. But Drew Brees never had a cannon and has never been a gunslinger. 

Core strength and good mechanics are things that QBs can and do work on routinely and Peterman is probably smart enuf to understand that these items should be near the top of his to do list. IMO the lack of velocity on quick outs made to his right are mechanical and therefore is potentially a correctable problem. He doesn't seem to have the same problem throwing that pass to his left but it's the mechanics for those two throws that are different.

I don't know how or whether Peterman will pan out but I do think he can greatly benefit from studying Brees's game because that's the general type of QB that his mental and physical skill set would best enable him to become. 

 

[klos63]

10 hours ago, ajmac said:

I have never heard anyone really compare these two QBs on the board here or anywhere, but you have to admit, there are some similarities in their styles of play and skill sets. I am not a Peterman fan, nor am I against him. I think he had a rough start to his career and other than that, he has looked relatively promising as a potential solid starter. 

The weakness of his arm strength, just like Drew Bree's, and lack of size (cause for concern on wear and tear) were the main knocks on both. Both great college players, except Bree's has the edge for sure there. I know this is a stretch a little here, but I am not so sure Peterman could turn out to be a solid QB in this league. 

Personally, I see the generational talent in Allen, and I want that for my guy, but what are we going to do if all of a sudden Peterman starts showing flashes and wins games?? 

 

Ok, now you can roast away, I brought cold beer and snacks so you don't have to be gentle! 

Unfortunately, the comparisons you cite have nothing to do with how similar the results will be on an NFL level.

[Alphadawg7]

Great write up about the difficult of the sideline throw and another reason Brees and NP dont compare.

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/9/4/17808072/buffalo-bills-quarterback-nathan-peterman-and-throwing-velocity-on-sideline-passes-mike-jordan

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Brees has a weaker arm than Peterman...http://www.pass2win.com/ball-velocity-exposing-the-power-qb.html

 

Drew Brees has never been known for having a cannon, but he makes up for that with timing, deadly accuracy, and technique.

 

 

I've been making comparisons to Brees and Peterman for a while based mostly on the way they play and the situation they found themselves in on their rosters. Time will tell if he's able to put it together, but he's a smart kid who doesn't get rattled, and his skill set is shared by many really good QBs. He's got a hell of a mountain to climb, and I'm just hoping he gets that chance.

 

 

The article you link to does NOT show that Brees throws slower than Peterman.

 

I checked the Sports Science episode it refers to and yeah, Brees threw at 52 MPH. But he wasn't throwing for speed. He was throwing in an attempt to hit a very small target from 20 yards away. Which he did an amazing 10 out of 10 times. And all 10 times he threw he threw at 52 MPH. But clearly when you're going for accuracy you're not going to throw it as fast as you can. 

 

Generally at the combine guys are throwing as hard as they can when their speed is measure. But more, speed and velocity can improve over a career, so it's hard to know whether Peterman is throwing at the same speed he was at the combine. He spent all of last off-season working on his throwing motion trying to improve his speed.

 

In any case, the comparison between Brees and Peterman is a major reach. Though you can probably find a few similarities, the major comparison - success and ability as an NFL QB - shouldn't be even looked at until/unless Peterman has a great deal more success than he currently has mustered. 

[BullBuchanan]

5 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Why on earth would a Bills fan hope for a Brees / Rivers scenario for Allen and Peterman ?Last time I checked , one of those guys is going to the hall of fame and won a Super Bowl after the team that drafted him moved on. I know I don’t want that to happen here and most Bills fans would likely agree. Once Nate Peterman is no longer a Bill, I don’t want him to accomplish jack squat in the NFL. 

Because I'm hoping we keep Brees and trade Rivers.

[reddogblitz]

This reminds me of the Trent/Joe Montana comparisons.