jimshiz Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/ne...t_id=1000844124 Asked if the war was worth it, considering all the costs and benefits to the United States, 53% said no and 45% said yes. How will this rate here on PPP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Too early to tell. The result truly won't be know for 20 years - maybe more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hedd Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/ne...t_id=1000844124 Asked if the war was worth it, considering all the costs and benefits to the United States, 53% said no and 45% said yes. How will this rate here on PPP? 279673[/snapback] I question the wisdom of putting a poll on a board called politics, POLLS, and pundits because it will doubtless be meant with derision by some. Seeing as I was never for the thing in the first place I don't think anyone's accomplished anything worth of note to make me change my mind at this juncture. I think the last thing I recall reading about the situation (the media has been disturbingly quiet of late) involved our military shooting at a rescued italian journalist who was just held hostage, killing her guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I think the last thing I recall reading about the situation (the media has been disturbingly quiet of late) involved our military shooting at a rescued italian journalist who was just held hostage, killing her guard. 279695[/snapback] Yep, you're informed. Am I the only one who's not surprised by this sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hedd Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Yep, you're informed. Am I the only one who's not surprised by this sentence? 279706[/snapback] Surprised by what? That she wasn't killed as well? So am I. The military and the journalist give two completely at odds versions of what happened and given how the military has handled situations similar to this in the past I tend to believe the woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBorn1960 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Surprised by what? That she wasn't killed as well? So am I.The military and the journalist give two completely at odds versions of what happened and given how the military has handled situations similar to this in the past I tend to believe the woman. 279722[/snapback] Gee....I thought you were one of those...."I support the troops but am against the war" types... guess I was wrong.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Surprised by what? That she wasn't killed as well? So am I.The military and the journalist give two completely at odds versions of what happened and given how the military has handled situations similar to this in the past I tend to believe the woman. 279722[/snapback] Given her history, why would you automatically believe her? Oh, that is right. She supports your POV. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/ne...t_id=1000844124 Asked if the war was worth it, considering all the costs and benefits to the United States, 53% said no and 45% said yes. How will this rate here on PPP? 279673[/snapback] I vote for "At this point in time I have no idea and neither does anyone else who answered that survey" Trying to judge whether the war was "worth it" or not at this point in time is like trying to judge in training camp whether a new free agent signing was "worth it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Surprised by what? That she wasn't killed as well? So am I.The military and the journalist give two completely at odds versions of what happened and given how the military has handled situations similar to this in the past I tend to believe the woman. 279722[/snapback] You mean situations like speeding cars racing towards armored vehicle in a war zone where speeding cars racing towards armored vehicles are considered imminent threats? Yeah, I'd believe a woman who just came out of "once in a lifetime" traumatic event over trained professionals who deal with this kind of crap every day Quick, tell everyone how you support the troops. Your type of "support" is what gets our guys killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Surprised by what? That she wasn't killed as well? So am I.The military and the journalist give two completely at odds versions of what happened and given how the military has handled situations similar to this in the past I tend to believe the woman. 279722[/snapback] Actually what happened was that the military gave one version of what happened and Sgrena gave about a dozen at last count. At one point she claimed she was fired on by a tank, that 300-400 shots were fired, and that the Americans were trying to kill her (easily disproved because she is still alive). Nevermind that she works for a communist newspaper and told collegues she wasn't afraid of being kidnapped or killed by insurgents because she was siding with them against the Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Actually what happened was that the military gave one version of what happened and Sgrena gave about a dozen at last count. At one point she claimed she was fired on by a tank, that 300-400 shots were fired, and that the Americans were trying to kill her (easily disproved because she is still alive). Nevermind that she works for a communist newspaper and told collegues she wasn't afraid of being kidnapped or killed by insurgents because she was siding with them against the Americans. 279756[/snapback] That makes her far more trustworthy in the eyes of the "Bush Bad" crowd. She already had a bias against Americans and the U.S. military, so there is no way she could possibly skew the story for the benefit of her agenda. I believe her completely. Really. The DNC marching orders say that I should believe her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBorn1960 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 That makes her far more trustworthy in the eyes of the "Bush Bad" crowd. She already had a bias against Americans and the U.S. military, so there is no way she could possibly skew the story for the benefit of her agenda. I believe her completely. Really. The DNC marching orders say that I should believe her. 279765[/snapback] crickets from the bishop.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 The Guardian Italian reconstruction of the incident is significantly different. Sgrena told colleagues the vehicle was not travelling fast and had already passed several checkpoints on its way to the airport. The Americans shone a flashlight at the car and then fired between 300 and 400 bullets at if from an armoured vehicle. Rather than calling immediately for assistance for the wounded Italians, the soldiers' first move was to confiscate their weapons and mobile phones and they were prevented from resuming contact with Rome for more than an hour. Amazingly, only one person (of the four in the car) was killed by that 300-400 bullet barrage. Sgrena's "Truth" The car kept on the road, going under an underpass full of puddles and almost losing control to avoid them. We all incredibly laughed. It was liberating. Losing control of the car in a street full of water in Baghdad and maybe wind up in a bad car accident after all I had been through would really be a tale I would not be able to tell. Nicola Calipari sat next to me. The driver twice called the embassy and in Italy that we were heading towards the airport that I knew was heavily patrolled by U.S. troops. They told me that we were less than a kilometer away...when...I only remember fire. At that point, a rain of fire and bullets hit us, shutting up forever the cheerful voices of a few minutes earlier.That's weird. I thought they were driving nice and slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 More Sgrena Story Mr. Harald Doornbos is a veteran war reporter. He is no archetypical hawk nor a staunch supporter of the United States. In fact, he used to be a reporter for the communist newspaper 'De Waarheid' (The Truth, or Pravda, if you like) before it went bust. (This doesn't necessarily mean he was ever a communist, by the way. De Waarheid used to be a huge employer.) However, this doesn't make him overly sympathetic towards Giuliana Sgrena, the Italian journalist who was held hostage by Iraqi insurgents. Some snippets from this article which was published today in a Dutch Christian broadsheet. 'Be careful not to get kidnapped,' I told the female Italian journalist sitting next to me in the small plane that was headed for Baghdad. 'Oh no,' she said. 'That won't happen. We are siding with the oppressed Iraqi people. No Iraqi would kidnap us.' It doesn't sound very nice to be critical of a fellow reporter. But Sgrena's attitude is a disgrace for journalism. Or didn't she tell me back in the plane that 'common journalists such as yourself' simply do not support the Iraqi people? 'The Americans are the biggest enemies of mankind,' the three women behind me had told me, for Sgrena travelled to Iraq with two Italian colleagues who hated the Americans as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hedd Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Gee....I thought you were one of those...."I support the troops but am against the war" types... guess I was wrong.. 279724[/snapback] Naw not really. That crowd annoys me. Honestly I don't lay awake at night praying for them, nor am I into banal symbolism like yellow ribbon magnets-on-the-back-of-the-vehicle either. All that aside I really don't want anyone to die, especially if you think like I do and realize these boys and girls are dying for a no discernable reason, then the issue becomes somewhat maddening. I wouldn't wish for thousands of US mass casualties on the basis of making the effort, whatever it is, look bad. Taking that tact for the basis of being against the war serves no practical purpose. Of course this sounds ludicrous on the face of it but I truly wish nobody else dies. That's the extent of my support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Given her history, why would you automatically believe her? Oh, that is right. She supports your POV. Got it. 279726[/snapback] Perhaps it has something to do with that she wouldn't really have much motivation for fabricating her story, while there would be some serious motivation (legal and PR) for a US soldier to fabricate his (or theirs). Unless it just doesn't support your POV, got it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 'Be careful not to get kidnapped,' I told the female Italian journalist sitting next to me in the small plane that was headed for Baghdad. 'Oh no,' she said. 'That won't happen. We are siding with the oppressed Iraqi people. No Iraqi would kidnap us.' 279788[/snapback] Ideology: It tastes just like chicken. Really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hedd Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I vote for "At this point in time I have no idea and neither does anyone else who answered that survey" Trying to judge whether the war was "worth it" or not at this point in time is like trying to judge in training camp whether a new free agent signing was "worth it". 279731[/snapback] Or guessing when SS will become insolvent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Perhaps it has something to do with that she wouldn't really have much motivation for fabricating her story, while there would be some serious motivation (legal and PR) for a US soldier to fabricate his (or theirs). Unless it just doesn't support your POV, got it? 279798[/snapback] Really? No motivation? Someone who's in country to report US atrocities against innocent Iraqis has no motivation? Ed could obviously use whatever you've got today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Perhaps it has something to do with that she wouldn't really have much motivation for fabricating her story, while there would be some serious motivation (legal and PR) for a US soldier to fabricate his (or theirs). Unless it just doesn't support your POV, got it? 279798[/snapback] But actually she does have motivation to fabricate her story, which is why it is tough to believe that anyone would blindly accept her position just like nobody would blindly believe the position of the military. As always, the truth is somewhere in between the two stories. Got it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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