Thurman's Helmet Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 And and so are many Americans! Cut the feeding tubes, activity soars and the diet industry goes belly up. No pun intended. I agree, there should be a quicker way to do it. 281085[/snapback] Howabout instead of footing thousands of dollars on that risky stomach stapling surgery, why cant doctors put people on feeding tubes for a period of time which only feeds them the nutrients they need? That way within a certain time frame, they're bound to lose the weight. Feeding tubes, they're whats for dinner!
RkFast Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 Actually, I think this Schiavo thing IS great. We should start starving terrorists and murderers. I don't want to have to foot the bill for their humane treatement. Come to think of it, why don't we starve retards? And then when we're done with the retards, we can starve the liberals. I kind of like the sound of this, who's with me? 281124[/snapback] Yep...weve reached the point in the history of the world when shoving a pair of breasts into a murderer's face is "torture", but starving an inncent defenseless woman to death is "humane".
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 I believe most people with be fine with that.Makes you wonder why he doesn't walk away. That would be totally understandable. That he wants her executed is not. It's not like she can't breath on her own and a "plug" will get "pulled" and she'll die quickly as a result. They're going to starve her to death which is cruel and inhumane. Anybody that thinks otherwise should go on a total fast for fourteen days. No fluids, no food. 281186[/snapback] I agree with you that starving her to death seems cryel and inhumane. However, keeping her alive in her current state for 15 years now (and seemingly for some infinite time in the future according to those who say she is live and just needs to be fed and her muscles kept somewhat supple with physical therapy seems cruel and inhumane to me as well. I feel sorry for Terry Schiavo. He husband seems like he may want to use her for insurance money if you believe the worst "pro-life" folks say about him. Her parents seem to want to keep her breathing so they can go on appearing to be loving parents and to work out there own demons if you believe the worst things said about them (I have no reason to believe they are that evil and operating for their own interest though it appears clear that Tom DeLay, Randall Terry and other politicians are doing so(. This is really sad because her body is being played with by two sets of folks who in theory should be looking out for her best interests, Whether it is those who want to end it quick by allowing her to die or those who want to torture her for while by keeping her alive, it is not human kind's finest hour.
rockpile Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 Actually, doctors who've studied this report that starving someone in that state does not cause physical pain. Not good enough for those Birkenstock-wearers who claim that if you record a plant's stem being cut, you can hear it screaming, but what can you say? I bet the next post says the husband is a terrorist. We've already had someone call him a Nazi, which is, of course, the argument of a sane person not overtaken by emotion </sarcasm>. In a better world more people would use their minds for rational thought. I assure you, if prosecutors in a state governed by Jeb Bush had a shred of evidence that the husband was abusive, etc., he would have been symbolically arrested 10 years ago. Maybe the people in Florida should be keeping closer track of the child molesters who are killing their children (that's four now in the past year for guys that had long sex assault records) than to allow Teri to go to a better place according to her wishes. 281195[/snapback] I will not make any moral statements here. I would advise you to each get a living will on file if you have not already done so (that would be me too). Several years back, I was the primary person responsible for my grandmother. She had a massive stroke and was essentialy unresponsive, a vegetable if you will. She had a surgically implanted gastronomic feeding tube (if that is the correct term). At one point I met with her case team. The tube had been in for years and stomach acid was dissolving it. They wanted me to sign to have another one installed, a surgical procedure. At first I would not sign the papers. I knew she did not want to live this way, a feeding tube vegetable. The doctors informed me that it would it would be a very painful way to die, and even though she was not cognizant, she would feel the pain. So I signed the forms, but made them start trying to feed her orally to supplement the tube. They did and she seemed to enjoy the taste of food again. A small victory for me. My children were very young, but we regularly visited Great Grandma. Every time we went, we fed her ice cream. The kids seemed to bond with Grandma by caring for her, drawing her pictures and feeding her ice cream. Sometimes she followed us with her eyes and I wondered if anyone "was home". Within a year she died of natural causes at 93 in her sleep. Again - most of this does not apply to this case, except for one thing. How much pain might this person experience before she dies. I have no answers and make no judgements. Spare your family the agony of making the choices for you and get a living will. If a parent of grandparent asks you to be their power of attorney, document their wishes concerning medical care immediately. AFTER a stroke, it may be too late.
IDBillzFan Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 I will not make any moral statements here. I would advise you to each get a living will on file if you have not already done so (that would be me too). Several years back, I was the primary person responsible for my grandmother. She had a massive stroke and was essentialy unresponsive, a vegetable if you will. She had a surgically implanted gastronomic feeding tube (if that is the correct term). At one point I met with her case team. The tube had been in for years and stomach acid was dissolving it. They wanted me to sign to have another one installed, a surgical procedure. At first I would not sign the papers. I knew she did not want to live this way, a feeding tube vegetable. The doctors informed me that it would it would be a very painful way to die, and even though she was not cognizant, she would feel the pain. So I signed the forms, but made them start trying to feed her orally to supplement the tube. They did and she seemed to enjoy the taste of food again. A small victory for me. My children were very young, but we regularly visited Great Grandma. Every time we went, we fed her ice cream. The kids seemed to bond with Grandma by caring for her, drawing her pictures and feeding her ice cream. Sometimes she followed us with her eyes and I wondered if anyone "was home". Within a year she died of natural causes at 93 in her sleep. Again - most of this does not apply to this case, except for one thing. How much pain might this person experience before she dies. I have no answers and make no judgements. Spare your family the agony of making the choices for you and get a living will. If a parent of grandparent asks you to be their power of attorney, document their wishes concerning medical care immediately. AFTER a stroke, it may be too late. 281256[/snapback] What a touching story, Rock. Thank God there are people like you out there to counter a better part of the rest of the world, and hold the bar higher for parents.
KD in CA Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 More proof positive concerning my theory on this board thus far : the self persecution of the Right seems to be veering into a land of make belief. A land where what may be considered a slight or insult is magnified into terms like "nazi", "evil", and "neo-con" (I don't know what that is but it sounds mean) that haven't been used.Began to wonder if the rockin' righties here aren't suffering from a sort of mass delusion, then I realized they aren't much different from the current Conservative mindset which acts all wounded and insulted if you dare question their wisdom. Hey guys I had figured this was a Conservative board so I didn't think government intervention into a personal family issue would be tolerated. Then I realized it was a partisan board. 281123[/snapback] Uh, right. The only point to your posts is to use as many pointed adjectives as possible to bait and make baseless insults and then when you are called on it, you retreat to the “my opponents are oversensitive” routine. Gee, there's a new tactic. Is your hatred really so deep for the “macabre” Frist and the “abomination” Delay? Is this situation really “maddening” for you? How sad. Talk about self-persecution!! By the way, nice job ducking the question…again. Still no opinion offered of what should be done with Terry Schiavo. But I’ll bet we won’t have to wait long to see another post that includes a reference to Tom DeLay.
Corp000085 Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 You know, this whole thing, plus my recent visit to the doctors last week (i have a massive cholesterol problem... genetic) have gotten us on the fast track for setting up wills. You're covering all asses by spending an hour with a lawyer and signing a few papers.
Nanker Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 What a touching story, Rock. Thank God there are people like you out there to counter a better part of the rest of the world, and hold the bar higher for parents. 281259[/snapback] Nicely said, and Rockpile - BRAVO!
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 Great story Rockpile and I am glad that you and your family were able to use the events of life to teach what is seemingly a valuable lesson about inter-generational sharing to her grandkids. It sounds and I hope you are correct in offering that this life-lesson also benefited your grandma. It does not sound like it continued a tortured existence for her as the continuation of Terri Schiavo's life so politicians can score political points with their base seems to be (who knows as I may be wrong). Ultimately, this whole thing seems to come down to a debate over who makes the choice for a person when their incapacitated about continuation of their life under these circumstances. Traditionally in our society it has been a person's chosen family within the sanctity of their marriage rather than their inherited family of their parents. The real iron here is that those who have accepted the mantle of religious conservatives have chosen |life" as the driver in their moral choices over the traditional view of marriage. Further, these activists are investing in the court system and federal authority over states rights as the way to defend their "pro-life" views. Even though this irony is interesting to me it certainly gets overwhelmed by the individual tragedy Terry Schiavo is going through at the hands of a dispute between a husband who is advocating letter her die (potentially for his benefit) and parents who are advocating letting her live though the actual life she will lead strikes me as having more in common with a cat who keeps alive a mouse who cannot escape than life as we hope it is. I'm just sorry that her husband and her parents proved unable to do what so many have done when confronted with these beyond human questions and work it out as best as they could. Their failure to work it our is the strongest endorsement I can image for someone to set up a living will, if not for themselves then for their family. Some would really profit from the course you seemed to have taken, others might profit more from a version of assisted suicide like they have in Oregon. A living will makes it less likely that a person and their families will be played with like a political football or a mouse caught by a cat when their capacity is at the least to impact these decisions.
rockpile Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 What a touching story, Rock. Thank God there are people like you out there to counter a better part of the rest of the world, and hold the bar higher for parents. 281259[/snapback] Oh, I will be paying off karma for the bad sh-- I have done in my life for quite a while, trust me. Mine are pretty much grown up now, so the ball is in your court now!
blzrul Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 The question really becomes why this woman's life is apparently worth so much more than others? I don't know anything about her and have no reason to believe that she wasn't a lovely person. And I surely don't know why she was struck down in her youth - but we all know it happens. However it is a little ironic that politicians are rushing to save this one person, whilst there are no doubt others in the same predicament whose families haven't been able to garner the publicity. To say nothing of the fact that many of these same people, who talk about the sacredness of life, see no issue with executions. I can't say for sure, but I don't think it's up to human beings to decide that one life is more sacred than others. This is a lose-lose situation, It's so sad for everyone. I have a sister-in-law (my bud, I love her to pieces) in an institution who's not much more than a vegetable, and it's very sad. However she lives without feeding tubes and machines, and when she cannot survive without being on feeding tubes and machines, that's God's will and her family will do the brave and unselfish thing and let her go in peace.
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 The question really becomes why this woman's life is apparently worth so much more than others? I don't know anything about her and have no reason to believe that she wasn't a lovely person. And I surely don't know why she was struck down in her youth - but we all know it happens. However it is a little ironic that politicians are rushing to save this one person, whilst there are no doubt others in the same predicament whose families haven't been able to garner the publicity. To say nothing of the fact that many of these same people, who talk about the sacredness of life, see no issue with executions. I can't say for sure, but I don't think it's up to human beings to decide that one life is more sacred than others. This is a lose-lose situation, It's so sad for everyone. I have a sister-in-law (my bud, I love her to pieces) in an institution who's not much more than a vegetable, and it's very sad. However she lives without feeding tubes and machines, and when she cannot survive without being on feeding tubes and machines, that's God's will and her family will do the brave and unselfish thing and let her go in peace. 281498[/snapback] Thanks blzrul!
goober Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 Actually, I think this Schiavo thing IS great. We should start starving terrorists and murderers. I don't want to have to foot the bill for their humane treatement. Come to think of it, why don't we starve retards? And then when we're done with the retards, we can starve the liberals. I kind of like the sound of this, who's with me? 281124[/snapback] good idea... too bad you would be knocked off one step before the liberals and wouldn't be around to enjoy it
Bishop Hedd Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 Uh, right. The only point to your posts is to use as many pointed adjectives as possible to bait and make baseless insults and then when you are called on it, you retreat to the “my opponents are oversensitive” routine. Gee, there's a new tactic. Is your hatred really so deep for the “macabre” Frist and the “abomination” Delay? Is this situation really “maddening” for you? How sad. Talk about self-persecution!! By the way, nice job ducking the question…again. Still no opinion offered of what should be done with Terry Schiavo. But I’ll bet we won’t have to wait long to see another post that includes a reference to Tom DeLay. 281270[/snapback] I really don't care what happens either way and it's not for me to decide what to do with her. What got me galled about this issue is watching the procession of sanctimonious twits and publicity chasers like Randall Terry parade in front of the cable news cameras, people who never even knew her when she was cognitive but obviously want to decide what's best for her now. "Macabre" and "ghastly" aren't quite "evil", "nazi" and "neo-con" (sounds like a bug spray in which case it's a fitting adjective for Tom Delay) now are they Joel?
goober Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 I really don't care what happens either way and it's not for me to decide what to do with her. What got me galled about this issue is watching the procession of sanctimonious twits and publicity chasers like Randall Terry parade in front of the cable news cameras, people who never even knew her when she was cognitive but obviously want to decide what's best for her now. "Macabre" and "ghastly" aren't quite "evil", "nazi" and "neo-con" (sounds like a bug spray in which case it's a fitting adjective for Tom Delay) now are they Joel? 281520[/snapback] I am also ambivalent about the outcome - but I think politicians like usual are slime: In a memo distributed only to Republican senators, the Schiavo case was characterized as "a great political issue" that could pay dividends with Christian conservatives, whose support is essential in midterm elections such as those coming up in 2006. "This is an important moral issue and the pro-life base will be excited that the Senate is debating this important issue," said the memo, which was reported by ABC News and later given to The Washington Post. "This is a great political issue, because Senator Nelson of Florida has already refused to become a cosponsor and this is a tough issue for Democrats." are they concerned about this poor 15-year vegetable or winning another senate seat?
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 Breaking news......Senate passes Schiavo bill. 281475[/snapback] I just don't know what to say about this story... Just so tragic. All I know is more government to the rescue! Passing morality bills!
sweet baboo Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 I agree with you on this. If she is going to die, give her a lethal injection. By removing the feeding tube, she is going to starve to death. I saw that it may take up to ten days for her to die! I think that is inhumane! 280326[/snapback] die of dehydration first
Bishop Hedd Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 I am also ambivalent about the outcome - but I think politicians like usual are slime: In a memo distributed only to Republican senators, the Schiavo case was characterized as "a great political issue" that could pay dividends with Christian conservatives, whose support is essential in midterm elections such as those coming up in 2006. "This is an important moral issue and the pro-life base will be excited that the Senate is debating this important issue," said the memo, which was reported by ABC News and later given to The Washington Post. "This is a great political issue, because Senator Nelson of Florida has already refused to become a cosponsor and this is a tough issue for Democrats." are they concerned about this poor 15-year vegetable or winning another senate seat? 281526[/snapback] Come on now. Did you actually think all this contrived "support" amounted to anything else?
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