Crap Throwing Monkey Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 At least most of us did not call her a "piece of meat." 286617[/snapback] When you get down to it, we're all pieces of meat. The only thing that keeps us persons rather than merely pieces of meat is "consciousness" or "self-awareness" or "soul" or whatever mystical term you want to call that which gives each of us that inexplicable sense of "self", and sometimes not even then. Spend a week bare-ass in Kruger National Park or the Papua New Guinea highlands, and see how much more than a "piece of meat" African lions or Fore tribesmen consider you. Most of you didn't call her a "piece of meat" because most of you are too arrogant to realize that the boundary between "piece of meat" and "human being" is vanishingly thin. But keep thinking that your arguing the figurative feces of whether or not the husk of a human being absent the essence of the person should be maintained out of some sanctimonious desire to cheat death puts you on a higher simian plane than us monkeys who sit in trees and toss literal crap at each other. The bottom line is that it's the humane thing to do - for everyone involved - letting the poor woman's body take the final journey down the road her mind's already travelled. Holding on to the body well after the person's gone is far more disgusting a suggestion than the merely factual observation that a body minus the person is, in fact, a slab of meat.
justnzane Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 When you get down to it, we're all pieces of meat. The only thing that keeps us persons rather than merely pieces of meat is "consciousness" or "self-awareness" or "soul" or whatever mystical term you want to call that which gives each of us that inexplicable sense of "self", and sometimes not even then. Spend a week bare-ass in Kruger National Park or the Papua New Guinea highlands, and see how much more than a "piece of meat" African lions or Fore tribesmen consider you. Most of you didn't call her a "piece of meat" because most of you are too arrogant to realize that the boundary between "piece of meat" and "human being" is vanishingly thin. But keep thinking that your arguing the figurative feces of whether or not the husk of a human being absent the essence of the person should be maintained out of some sanctimonious desire to cheat death puts you on a higher simian plane than us monkeys who sit in trees and toss literal crap at each other. The bottom line is that it's the humane thing to do - for everyone involved - letting the poor woman's body take the final journey down the road her mind's already travelled. Holding on to the body well after the person's gone is far more disgusting a suggestion than the merely factual observation that a body minus the person is, in fact, a slab of meat. 286701[/snapback] very eloquently put. i agree with everything there as humans basically are meat that have a limted shelf life.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 It would be the easiest thing in the world for the husband to throw up his hands and say "fine, screw you, you take care of her." He could file for divorce and walk away. You have to wonder why he doesn't do that. 286611[/snapback] Yeah, makes you wonder, doesn't it? Cha-CHING!
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 I think the Divorce rate in this country is about 50%. So the death do us part argument is moot. You really need to take you focus point off the money. 286637[/snapback] Why? It's central to the issue. He's pulling the plug, and IMMEDIATELY on her death wants to incinerate her corpse without an autopsy. Suspicious. But hey, i just think everyone's evil, so it must just be me.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 For the Church saying they wont give last rights to her is abominable, and I’ve posted that before. 286650[/snapback] They tried to, but the court appointed doctor wouldn't let them. Ah, government.
UConn James Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 And wouldn't we be hearing the screams from the taxpayers at having to fork over the bucks to keep this poor soul - or what's left of her - "alive". I'm not so sure her health care isn't subsidized, but I pretty much can guarantee that the 750k won't go anywhere NEAR paying her bills forever. 286611[/snapback] Here's Exhibit 9,976,132 about the hypocracy behind limiting malpractice lawsuits. These people want it both ways: not to have the people whose pockets they're in to have to pay out to their victims. And then they say you have to let someone lie there, and waste resources with zero chance of recovery. The only option left is for a family to go bankrupt or hit the lottery. ....euthanasia.... 286626[/snapback] There's a legal difference b/w euthanasia and cases like these for the person of determination, the husband in this case, stopping treatment by not using machines, let's get that straight. VA saying "pulling the plug" in Florida is illegal according to their constitution b/c it outlaws euthanasia is a lie. Last I looked, your opinion and interpretation of how the law should be read doesn't count as common law. I understand that she is going to die and unfortunately too soon, IMHO. I just want people to see that her "husband" has been lying and the media has been going along with it. But the CNN article I posted should at least sway some that there is more money awarded that he never admitted to, which IMHO makes everything he does questionable. 286640[/snapback] Mr. Schiavo's Personal Accountant By Media Proxy, Lord knows CNN, ESPN never get their numbers wrong. And we should all assume they have access to Mr. Schiavo's checkbook and bank accounts so they can verify all statements. I'm sure that you'll hand over your checkbook so I can snoop around in your finances. You have no idea how much the accrued medical bills were at the multitude of doctors that were consulted before Michael came to the realization years later that Teri was a vegetable for life. Keep on spouting about a monetary situation that you have no idea of and where CNN and a wet-behind-the-ears reporter are your sources. It makes you sound so smart.
VABills Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 Lord knows CNN, ESPN never get their numbers wrong. And we should all assume they have access to Mr. Schiavo's checkbook and bank accounts so they can verify all statements. I'm sure that you'll hand over your checkbook so I can snoop around in your finances. You have no idea how much the accrued medical bills were at the multitude of doctors that were consulted before Michael came to the realization years later that Teri was a vegetable for life. Keep on spouting about a monetary situation that you have no idea of and where CNN and a wet-behind-the-ears reporter are your sources. It makes you sound so smart. 286835[/snapback] Of course you also don't have access to the numbers either. But my guess comes with some solid evidence where even CNN contradicts themselves. There are links in some of my earlier posts that show what the awards were, how they were reduced due to her culpability. Schaivo and his lawyers all say now it was only 1 million and they have only spent 300k on care for Terri and 650K on lawyers fees. They openly admit to that, that is public knowledge. Where the lies are 1) in the court proceeding for the malpractice he stated the money was for her long term care, yes 1 month after the awards he posted a do not recesitate on her medical chart 2) he now is saying there is only a million dollars, yet there is over whelming evidence and there are court documents that show the total awards are upwards of 2 million. Maybe deep down he is doing it "for her" in his mind, I personally doubt it, and I also think it sets a very bad presidence. I also feel the law is not being upheld as it was intended.
BillsNYC Posted March 25, 2005 Author Posted March 25, 2005 At least most of us did not call her a "piece of meat." 286617[/snapback] Yeah...I called her a vegetable
BillsNYC Posted March 25, 2005 Author Posted March 25, 2005 She will die either Friday or Sunday. The opinion columns will then write themselves. 286691[/snapback] Maybe she'll rise from the dead on third day? How about that for a coincidence? Imagine if this has been one big farce, and she’s faking it and is going to miraculously ‘heal’ on Easter Sunday? I could see the Vatican doing this to boost Catholicism…
MadBuffaloDisease Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 Again, this is NOT about what Michael Schiavo or Terri's parents want. I happen to believe that Terri Schiavo wouldn't have wanted to "live" this way, and that's the central issue here. She was self-conscious about her appearance, to the point that she had an eating disorder (bulimia) that ultimately led her to have a cardiac arrest and suffer anoxic brain injury as a result. Her husband claims that SHE said she wouldn't want to live in a PVS. No one else has said they heard her say she would want to be kept alive no matter what. Taking all this together, I seriously DOUBT that she would want to be in a PVS and with her face plastered all over the news like this. So her wishes in all likelihood would have been to withdraw support. The fact that her cortex is gone means Terri Schiavo the person is gone, and she won't understand what's going-on around her, or even that she's starving to death. Let her go with SOME dignity. And if MS is doing this for money, he's in for a rude awakening. Any money he allegedly inherits or makes from this story will be under such scrutiny that it won't be worth it. As for Terri's parents, I feel sorry for them. In the end they lose a child, but also lose sight of reality and what's best for her.
Terry Tate Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 There's a legal difference b/w euthanasia and cases like these for the person of determination, the husband in this case, stopping treatment by not using machines, let's get that straight. VA saying "pulling the plug" in Florida is illegal according to their constitution b/c it outlaws euthanasia is a lie. Last I looked, your opinion and interpretation of how the law should be read doesn't count as common law. You misunderstand me. I never said this was a case of euthanasia, nor did I say my opinion should count as common law. The court system has ruled removing a sustenance device is not euthanasia. But since there are people who believe otherwise, the subject of euthanasia had entered into the discussion and I made my statement on it. Given the circumstances of the legal proceedings, perhaps it is a subject for a separate debate.
Adam Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 Maybe she'll rise from the dead on third day? How about that for a coincidence? Imagine if this has been one big farce, and she’s faking it and is going to miraculously ‘heal’ on Easter Sunday? I could see the Vatican doing this to boost Catholicism… 286987[/snapback] She's pretty much already been killed off. In her weakened state she wan't going to survive much starvation or dehydration. To bad she couldn't have had morphie or something put in her tube, so she could go peacefully......wait, that wouldnt make sense, that would have killed her.
UConn James Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 You misunderstand me. I never said this was a case of euthanasia, nor did I say my opinion should count as common law. The court system has ruled removing a sustenance device is not euthanasia. But since there are people who believe otherwise, the subject of euthanasia had entered into the discussion and I made my statement on it. Given the circumstances of the legal proceedings, perhaps it is a subject for a separate debate. 287031[/snapback] That wasn't directed at you, I just need to invest in a copy editor. It was to VA a few pages back who said this was "euthanasia" and went on a whole rant that it's unconstitutional in Florida and that everyone including the courts and Gov. Bush are asleep at the wheel and wrong, wrong, wrong, when in fact it's done every day for families in the same unfortunate circumstances, only w/o the media horde. I wholly agree with you on this.
Terry Tate Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 very eloquently put. Eloquent, and yet still rude and disrespectful (by his own admission previously). It differs from the behavior that led to his monniker in the first place in that he acknowledges it and explains his beliefs with a clarity that separates his statement from the some of the other callous remarks made on the topic. Still, I hope he doesn't try that 'piece of meat' act at a funeral home, lest some of the loved ones of the dearly departed decide to try to split that colossal egg head of his.
VABills Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 That wasn't directed at you, I just need to invest in a copy editor. It was to VA a few pages back who said this was "euthanasia" and went on a whole rant that it's unconstitutional in Florida and that everyone including the courts and Gov. Bush are asleep at the wheel and wrong, wrong, wrong, when in fact it's done every day for families in the same unfortunate circumstances, only w/o the media horde. I wholly agree with you on this. 287093[/snapback] Main Entry: eu·tha·na·sia Pronunciation: "yü-th&-'nA-zh(E-)& Function: noun Etymology: Greek, easy death, from euthanatos, from eu- + thanatos death -- more at THANATOS : the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy- eu·tha·na·sic /-zik, -sik/ adjective
UConn James Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 Main Entry: eu·tha·na·sia Pronunciation: "yü-th&-'nA-zh(E-)& Function: noun Etymology: Greek, easy death, from euthanatos, from eu- + thanatos death -- more at THANATOS : the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy- eu·tha·na·sic /-zik, -sik/ adjective 287133[/snapback] Yes, and if you go past a one-sentence HotPocket description, you'd find that's applicable to people who still have their faculties but are dy-"ing" ala terminal cancer, AIDS, etc. The ones you read about where a nurse puts 40cc of NaCl in the fluids. That is active involvement in the death. Ending machine hookup for someone who is braindead (except according to hack doctors who diagnose by watching 10 seconds of videotape) and their cerebellum is liquified is a different case.
VABills Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 Yes, and if you go past a one-sentence HotPocket description, you'd find that's applicable to people who still have their faculties but are dy-"ing" ala terminal cancer, AIDS, etc. The ones you read about where a nurse puts 40cc of NaCl in the fluids. That is active involvement in the death. Ending machine hookup for someone who is braindead (except according to hack doctors who diagnose by watching 10 seconds of videotape) and their cerebellum is liquified is a different case. 287179[/snapback] She only has a feeding tube. Everything else she does on her own. How many handicapped people cannot feed themselves? I guess Stephen Hawkings should not have been fed either.
UConn James Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 She only has a feeding tube. Everything else she does on her own. How many handicapped people cannot feed themselves? I guess Stephen Hawkings should not have been fed either. 287189[/snapback] Teri would've aspirated and died if the protesters had given her food or water. Feeding tube is considered a "machine." I don't think anyone is arguing that Teri's going to wake up and tell us about String Theory. Except you. In your slippery slope world, should people be arrested for taking one of those mints in the Chinese restaurant? I mean, there it is, so close to the register, it's almost like you're robbing them.
VABills Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 Teri would've aspirated and died if the protesters had given her food or water. Feeding tube is considered a "machine." I don't think anyone is arguing that Teri's going to wake up and tell us about String Theory. Except you. In your slippery slope world, should people be arrested for taking one of those mints in the Chinese restaurant? I mean, there it is, so close to the register, it's almost like you're robbing them. 287222[/snapback] Oh okay, so we only kill the stupid people. The smart ones we keep alive. I am sure Christopher Reeve would have had issues with that.
VABills Posted March 25, 2005 Posted March 25, 2005 A different perspective on the biased reporting about this case. Surprising it is from the Washington Post. http://news.yahoo.com/p/v?u=/wp_av/2005032...X=50,screenY=50
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