Ian Rapoport: "Josh Allen is not quite ready" to start

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

9 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Not picking on you, HappyDays, but why is Rapoport's opinion worthy of a separate thread?

 

Josh Allen's readiness has been much discussed in other threads by people more knowledgeable of the Bills & Allen than Ian Rapoport.  

 

 

sometimes threads by other people are nice to see hondo. 

 

you start a thread and let it roll 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, ALF said:

Ian Rapoport: 'Josh Allen is not quite ready' to start for #Bills https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/27/ian-rapoport-josh-allen-nathan-peterman-buffalo-bills/ …

9:45 PM - Aug 27, 2018

 

Greg Cosell said about as much on Monday show with Murph. Did not put all blame on OL.

 

I thought Allen was more spooked by OL play that messed with his game unable to adjust.  At least it did not ruin his confidence , that's the important thing at this point .

 

This.  The OL was terrible but Allen was, as one lineman put it, "shook" from the jump.  Understandably so - but it won't help him to start right away, especially given the brutal schedule.  He'll take a beating and they'll be losing games.  Better for him to sit and get ready to come in and help them finish the season strong, which will build more confidence heading into 2019.  Sorry, that's just the reality of it.

[skibum]

It won't matter much in the end. They can start the season with Peterman, but behind this O line he will sustain an injury within 3 weeks. 

 

Josh will get his opportunity soon enough, methinks. 

[Gugny]

6 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

I don't think anyone is judging Allen's readiness based on yesterday's game alone though... The coaches aren't that stupid, and if they are, it doesn't bode well for Allen ever panning out. If they're dumb enough to judge a QB on one single preseason game, how can they be smart enough to draft the right QB in the first place?

Allen's readiness is based on his entire body of work, from before he came into the league up through camp & preseason. 

Through 3 games, he's completed 24/44 passes for 210 yards (54.5% Completions), Avg. 4.7 yards, with 2 TD's & 0 INT's. Completion percentage is his norm, while other numbers are a bit lower than you'd hope but he's raw & underdeveloped. The O-line is awful, even if people wanted to pretend it wasn't the entire offseason, so yes, it will be difficult for anyone to truly excel behind them.

However, people always say "no QB could play well behind that O-line!" every time we get a new QB & they fail to produce. While they won't play as well as they could, it's silly to say nobody could have done well. Though they improved, it's not like the Browns & Bengals have top of the league defenses... When QB's like JP Losman, Kelly Holcomb, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel, Tyrod Taylor, etc. got smashed around, their diehard supporters always blamed the O-line or OC rather than admit those QB's had a role in the problem.

It's not Allen's fault he's not ready, again, everyone knew he was a risk & a project at the position. Expecting him to make some astronomical leap in his first couple months on an NFL roster is ridiculous. The guy wasn't considered anywhere close to "pro ready" like Rosen or Darnold, and he's never played with or against top level talent on a consistent basis. The guy needs time! And that's ok! Why people are so hellbent on rushing out & destroying the shiny new toy is beyond me. This is a true rebuilding year. Let Peterman or McCarron take the beatings & hope they perform admirably.

 

If Peterman can play like he has been consistently, he can be successful like Chad Pennington was throughout his career. They're both smart, hard workers, quick learners, can read defenses, have good timing, yet are held back by their size & arm strength. Chad was still the best QB the Jets have had in decades, so if Peterman can perform even remotely similar, we may all be pleasantly surprised while Allen grows into the QB we want him to be

 

Thanks for taking the time to write such a thorough response.

 

I was actually referring to TBD users judging Allen on Sunday's game; not the coaching staff.  So I agree with what you wrote, there.  I do not, however, put any stock into preseason QB statistics.  If they meant anything, Trent Edwards would have a gold jacket.

 

The way the Bengals' first string D manhandled the Bills' first string O Line, I will stand by my assertment that no QB would have done well.  They were turnstiles.  And the former Buffalo QBs you listed really did suck.  If Allen belongs in that list, this team is in some major !@#$ing trouble.

 

One thing I don't understand is when people call Josh Allen a project.  Perhaps I have a different definition of "project" in the context of NFL drafts.  Nate Peterman was a project because he was drafted late and had that, "hey, ya never know," factor to him.  To me - that's a project.  Hell, Tom Brady was a project.  Allen was drafted in the top 10 of the first round.  No one is drafted there without the team who drafted him believing, 100%, that he will imminently be a major contributor to the team.  That doesn't necessarily mean immediately (see: Rodgers).  I get - and I respect - your opinion (a popular one) that Allen would benefit from a year on the bench.  I don't disagree.  But I've also, since preseason started, wanted the best QB to get the starting nod.  I honestly think that is Allen.

 

I agree that this is a rebuilding year, but my question is "why not let the kid get some real time experience?" Protecting him from getting hurt and protecting his psyche, to me, aren't valid reasons.  Especially if he's the best QB on the roster.

 

I am a Peterman fan.  I do have concerns, though, about his interceptions.  Yes, he has a quick release - but at what price?  And if he's going to be the next Chad Pennington, then the Jets can have him, in my opinion.

 

Here's the rub:  I really do like all three QBs.  I think the competition is close and I'll trust McDermott to make the call that's best for the team - and I'll be perfectly happy with it.  That's thanks to Beane getting McCarron and Allen to Buffalo, whilst keeping Peterman.  All good moves.

 

The problems with the O line (and LBs) are real.  This season may be a rough one (although, it might not).  I'm all for Josh Allen learning some tough lessons if it will make him better and more prepared for next season - when I feel this team will be ready to begin contending again.

 

Go Bills!

[GunnerBill]

Allen isn't ready. Peterman nearly threw a pick 6 for the second game in a row when trying to make a throw to the outside, AJ is banged up and the offensive line stinks when asked to pass block.  

 

I'm officially worried. 

[billsfan1959]

9 hours ago, Gugny said:

There's not a QB in the league who would have done well yesterday.

 

Two costly drops.

A run for (what appeared to be) a first down that, inexplicably, wasn't challenged.

Penalties (almost exclusively Miller) that put them in unfavorable situations.

Questionable, at best, play calling.

 

Judging Josh Allen's level of readiness based on yesterday's game is just plain silly.

Add in the facts that (1) Dawkins didn't play and (2) the coaching staff thought this game would be the best time to shift O-linemen around every series...

[TFBillsfan]

Until the game against the Bengals, my mindset was Josh had exceeded expectations and out of the three QB’s he gave us the best chance to win so I was okay with him starting and going thru the growing pains. However, no way do I start him with the hot mess of an OL in front of him. Until the online improves and can at least provide 3 seconds of pass protection it serves no purpose to put him out there.

 

I had hoped our OL would at least be serviceable. Peterman has played well, but less face reality. If we were ranking starting QB’s, Peterman would be ranked last. While he has been getting the ball out quicker, defenses will make him beat them deep and take away the middle, forcing Peterman’s weakness (arm strength) to throw the out or deep ball. IMO, this will be a major rebuilding year for the Bills. Major OL concerns, a starting QB that can’t make certain throws, zero pass rush by the front four and a weak LB core.

 

Unless this team drastically exceeds expectations, I feel we will be drafting in the top 5 next year. I’m actually okay with that as I can at least see a plan. Upgrade OL, LB, WR with draft and cap space and we finally should have a strong foundation and balance on both sides of the ball. If the season goes south, I could see them moving Shady later in the season for more draft picks.

 

Love my Bills and hoping I’m 100% wrong, but this season I’m setting my expectations lower based upon what I’ve seen thus far.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Horrific OL, worst skill position players in the NFL and he's a little slow to process. I'd sit him for a bit.

[Rob's House]

Funny how now that Allen is officially a bust everyone wants to jump on the Nate Peterdick bandwagon. Jump all you want you **** talking bastards; the internet never forgets.

[HappyDays]

27 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

Funny how now that Allen is officially a bust everyone wants to jump on the Nate Peterdick bandwagon. Jump all you want you **** talking bastards; the internet never forgets.

 

Most of us who want Peterman to start understand the risk. Trust me, if he is the starter against Baltimore I will be holding my breath on every throw to the outside. I just think that all things considered he is still the best option right now. And for me it isn't just the offensive line and receivers looking like crap. I don't think Allen is quite ready for NFL game speed and it would do him good to be a backup QB until the bye. He's maybe a half second too slow and that can be developed off the field. If Peterman is a disaster it won't affect the future of the team at all. If Allen is a disaster that's a big problem and I'm worried things will snowball from there.

[teef]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Most of us who want Peterman to start understand the risk. Trust me, if he is the starter against Baltimore I will be holding my breath on every throw to the outside. I just think that all things considered he is still the best option right now. And for me it isn't just the offensive line and receivers looking like crap. I don't think Allen is quite ready for NFL game speed and it would do him good to be a backup QB until the bye. He's maybe a half second too slow and that can be developed off the field. If Peterman is a disaster it won't affect the future of the team at all. If Allen is a disaster that's a big problem and I'm worried things will snowball from there.

i agree.  as each play went on, allen looked a bit more panicked.  he didn't play terribly, but i just don't think he's quite  there yet.  once things slow down just a bit, he'll be ok.  for now, let nate hold down the fort.  i'm not looking forward for peterman to start, but i think it's the right move that this second.

[KGun12TD]

Neither is our O-Line.

[eball]

All I'll say is this -- McD had better have a good grasp of the locker room on this decision.

[_Underscore_]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

my question is "why not let the kid get some real time experience?" Protecting him from getting hurt and protecting his psyche, to me, aren't valid reasons.  Especially if he's the best QB on the roster.

 

First:  Great post.  It's always nice to see a thoughtfully written argument.

 

To respond to your question, I think there is a contrary case to be made in regards to the "protecting his psyche" aspect.  There is a difference between "taking your licks" (educational), and being routed (demoralizing).  You can't avoid injury, but there is a concept called "learned helplessness" that might be in play here if the team is too impatient.

 

This kid (and he is a kid) knows that the eyes of the whole league and the hopes of the city for a franchise QB are on his shoulders.  People react differently to pressure.  Kelly got fired up by criticism.  Peterman (for all his shortcomings, resilience seems to be a major strength) seems immune to it.  Others let the pressure get in their heads and it's all downhill after that (I think Ferguson was like that,  EJ as well, but I don't want to get into an argument about it).  If it were me, I would let Allen develop his footwork and learn the playbook while:

- the national spotlight finds other things to talk about

- the staff figures out how to make chicken salad out of the OL

- the rest of the offense learns Daboll's new scheme

- we get past four very tough defenses (Baltimore, SD, Minnesota, GB)

 

The VERY LAST THING I would want in this first year is Josh Allen  thinking "maybe they're right, maybe I am a bust".  I think it'll take two full years to see his potential come to fruition, and I think there are a lot of people waiting in the wings for him to fail, so they can "be right".  It'll take two bad games for the boo-birds, Rosen-fans, and ESPN talking heads to start lambasting him.  If Allen is going to be a 10-15 year solution (and I think he might be), another month isn't too much to wait to provide him with a better opportunity.  "Better" because the competition might be a bit easier and because the staff will have a better grip on the rest of the offense -- which has a lot of unknowns this year.  There will still be pressure, but maybe it'll be just a hair less.

 

I'm not sure there is a right or wrong call here  -- I guess it' depends on what Josh Allen is made of emotionally.  I'd sit him for at least the first four, but I trust McD's judgement.  I guess we'll see.

[Soda Popinski]

1 minute ago, _Underscore_ said:

 

First:  Great post.  It's always nice to see a thoughtfully written argument.

 

To respond to your question, I think there is a contrary case to be made in regards to the "protecting his psyche" aspect.  There is a difference between "taking your licks" (educational), and being routed (demoralizing).  You can't avoid injury, but there is a concept called "learned helplessness" that might be in play here if the team is too impatient.

 

This kid (and he is a kid) knows that the eyes of the whole league and the hopes of the city for a franchise QB are on his shoulders.  People react differently to pressure.  Kelly got fired up by criticism.  Peterman (for all his shortcomings, resilience seems to be a major strength) seems immune to it.  Others let the pressure get in their heads and it's all downhill after that (I think Ferguson was like that,  EJ as well, but I don't want to get into an argument about it).  If it were me, I would let Allen develop his footwork and learn the playbook while:

- the national spotlight finds other things to talk about

- the staff figures out how to make chicken salad out of the OL

- the rest of the offense learns Daboll's new scheme

- we get past four very tough defenses (Baltimore, SD, Minnesota, GB)

 

The VERY LAST THING I would want in this first year is Josh Allen  thinking "maybe they're right, maybe I am a bust".  I think it'll take two full years to see his potential come to fruition, and I think there are a lot of people waiting in the wings for him to fail, so they can "be right".  It'll take two bad games for the boo-birds, Rosen-fans, and ESPN talking heads to start lambasting him.  If Allen is going to be a 10-15 year solution (and I think he might be), another month isn't too much to wait to provide him with a better opportunity.  "Better" because the competition might be a bit easier and because the staff will have a better grip on the rest of the offense -- which has a lot of unknowns this year.  There will still be pressure, but maybe it'll be just a hair less.

 

I'm not sure there is a right or wrong call here  -- I guess it' depends on what Josh Allen is made of emotionally.  I'd sit him for at least the first four, but I trust McD's judgement.  I guess we'll see.

I think he's got to have more mental toughness than that.  Look at Goff's rookie year, when he finally did play, he looked like a BUST!.   But give him a better HC and a couple WRs and all of a sudden LA is a sexy pick for the playoffs.     Goff looked like an NFL QB last season.   

 

So obviously he didn't buy into the media hype that he was a bust even after he played like one.   Allen will have to be mentally tough as well.   Tougher than one bad game and having the media start chattering.   

[eball]

Solid post, @_Underscore_ -- I'm still leaning towards wanting them to start Allen but you make some very good points.

[thenorthremembers]

Allen had a bad game on Sunday.  The O-Line was horrendous at times, but 2-3 of those sacks wouldn't have been issues if he got the ball out faster.   Problem is you dont have the coaches tape, so I have no clue if the routes were open on those plays.  The entire offense was bad, but it doesn't remove the blame from Allen.   If thats McCarron, Tyrod, or even Peterman in the same scenario we let them share the blame.  Allen didnt play well. 

 

I have never been a big "sit and learn" fan, I dont know what sitting on your butt trying to look through the eyes of someone else really does for someone.   Yes you can see what they did in certain scenarios, but unless you're out there how can you really know.  

 

If Allen isn't ready to start, is he all the sudden ready if someone goes down?   Does he learn a thing being the number 3?  And if he is the number 2 why pay McCarron 5 million dollars this year to be your emergency QB?

 

I have faith in McDermott, but I really hope he has a plan here.  You cant spend the year going back and forth between Quarterbacks.  Once Allen is in, he needs to stay in until its obvious he is or isnt the answer.  Until then they need to draft a quarterback in some mid round every year until they know they have someone who is ready.  If not they will be out of a job quickly. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

This is just people trying to be right.

 

Week One of Preseason it was McCarron's job because he the steady veteran. He could execute the offense. And the Coaches agreed with that in their actions. McCarron got first team reps until he was injured. Peterman had not stood out in Training Camp, but he put up a high completion percentage in the Carolina game. Allen played to his Scouting Report, some flashes, some inaccurate throws.  

 

Week Two of Preseason, McCarron stunk up the joint (under heavy pressure) and Allen came in and "looked good". So then the narrative shifted to well we might as well start Allen and get the show on the road. Peterman got third string snaps, nobody was pushing for him. 

 

Week Three of Preseason, Allen looks terrible (under heavy pressure) and Peterman again moves the offense against the subs, and so now the narrative according to Bills fans is Peterman gives us the best chance to win. 

 

I think this is Bills fans reacting week to week. Swerving all over the road. Now we see threads that say Peterman was the plan the entire time. No he wasn't. Coaches gave Allen the first crack at first teams reps this week. He has outlasted McCarron (injured) and has the last best performance in a preseason game over Allen and so now Bills fans rush to Peterman is the answer. 

 

We don't want to "ruin" Allen. 

 

Peterman has played <2  real games and has 6 interceptions (5 in LA and immediately in the Jacksonville game).  

 

So my hunch is Peterman gets the start, like most fans want, and when this thing becomes a pop-gun offense after 3 weeks, the calls will start coming for Allen. Like sitting for 3 weeks was the ultimate learning difference. 

   

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Most of us who want Peterman to start understand the risk. Trust me, if he is the starter against Baltimore I will be holding my breath on every throw to the outside. I just think that all things considered he is still the best option right now. And for me it isn't just the offensive line and receivers looking like crap. I don't think Allen is quite ready for NFL game speed and it would do him good to be a backup QB until the bye. He's maybe a half second too slow and that can be developed off the field. If Peterman is a disaster it won't affect the future of the team at all. If Allen is a disaster that's a big problem and I'm worried things will snowball from there.

we seem to be agreeing a lot lately.

 

26 minutes ago, teef said:

i agree.  as each play went on, allen looked a bit more panicked.  he didn't play terribly, but i just don't think he's quite  there yet.  once things slow down just a bit, he'll be ok.  for now, let nate hold down the fort.  i'm not looking forward for peterman to start, but i think it's the right move that this second.

so, in short   R E L A X 

[teef]

3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

 

so, in short   R E L A X 

exactly...allen, the o-line, the fans, all need to relax.  the cincy game was just such an off showing that i think it threw everyone.  we just need to for the season to start, and see how people really play in live action.