Jobot Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 Guarantee the players want Allen. I think the guy earned a ton of respect from his team when he shouldered all the blame for the offenses struggles.
Green Lightning Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 Just now, whatdrought said: I don't think you improve a bad offense by putting a less talented QB out there. I understand that injuries are a concern, but they're always a concern. If we were deep in the playoff hunt and lost 3 pro-bowl linemen to season ending injury we wouldn't be asking them to pull our franchise QB to prevent injury. I think it's time to let him play, do our best with scheme and personnel to protect him and help him out, and then trust that his talent level will make things happen. Defenses aren't going to pass blitz every down when Lesean McCoy is in the backfield, and as soon as they cheat to the line Allen can make them pay unlike Peterman and McCarron can. I also think that once Dawkins is back in the lineup the entire line will look significantly better. You improve a shaky offence by putting a more productive QB in there. Peterman has moved the ball and scored points with the 1s., 2s. and 3s. He makes faster decisions and gets the ball out quicker than Allen and AJ. With this pathetic OL, that's the guy we need right now,, someone to get the ball out and put it the hands of playmakers - however few we have.
billybob71 Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 I was at the game and to my untrained eye there wasn't a lot of separation with our receivers for sure. Definitely didn't see anyone running free over the middle except Bengals receivers. This combined with a lot of pressure up the middle and I see why he started to hold the ball too long. Not saying he is ready to start season but are receivers looked slow yesterday.
Jerome007 Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 41 minutes ago, teef said: i think the bolded captures it perfectly. once they start allen, they completely need to commit to him. i'm not sure if the first 4-6 weeks are that time. if they decide to play him and let him learn on the fly, so be it. i just has a dangerous feel to it. That is 100% true. So long term, think of Allen first if you feel he can be a "franchise QB". But what about winning now? What about the other players? Coaches should base their decision around that. If voted start him, but I'd fine with Nate starting, for the reasons of flexibility. And... what about AJ? Odd man out paid 5M a year?
DC Grid Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 I say no but ONLY because the OL is AWFUL and I don't want to David Carr this kid. He is going to fall into bad footwork patterns, leading to INTs and destroyed confidence if he has to play behind a line that has him running for his life constantly. This is a recipe for failure. Let Peterman or McCarron go 2-6 wile the line gels (or doesn't) then get this kid some expirence that won't scar him for his career.
whatdrought Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Green Lightning said: You improve a shaky offence by putting a more productive QB in there. Peterman has moved the ball and scored points with the 1s., 2s. and 3s. He makes faster decisions and gets the ball out quicker than Allen and AJ. With this pathetic OL, that's the guy we need right now,, someone to get the ball out and put it the hands of playmakers - however few we have. If the argument is that the offensive line is terrible, the only evidence needed to not start Peterman is the Chargers game. I understand that that was a bad game and he can definitely improve, but the natural talent is a big difference. He couldn't throw the ball under pressure even to open receivers, and he had no mobility in the pocket. If a bad O-line is holding the offense back, imagine how it will be when all 11 defenders are playing within 10 yards of the LOS because they don't respect the pass. Allan's mobility, playmaking skills, and arm talent improve the entire offense.
NewEra Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 No. He might die. I’d like our future qb to be breathing going into next season. Sit him for the first 3 weeks minimum. I don’t think he’d learn much from playing in those 3 games because he’d probably be concussed 1
jrober38 Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, whatdrought said: If the argument is that the offensive line is terrible, the only evidence needed to not start Peterman is the Chargers game. I understand that that was a bad game and he can definitely improve, but the natural talent is a big difference. He couldn't throw the ball under pressure even to open receivers, and he had no mobility in the pocket. If a bad O-line is holding the offense back, imagine how it will be when all 11 defenders are playing within 10 yards of the LOS because they don't respect the pass. Allan's mobility, playmaking skills, and arm talent improve the entire offense. Last night disagrees. Last night was a glimpse into what our offense will look like this year with Allen as the QB. He was a huge project coming out of college who needs to learn on the sidelines. He's clearly not ready. Edited August 27, 2018 by jrober38
billybob71 Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 I was sitting up high and when he dropped back I tried to really focus on the routes and he didn't have much to throw too. This combined with the pressure made it tough. I prob wouldn't put him out there until this line can gel and some receiving threats emerge.
Green Lightning Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, whatdrought said: If the argument is that the offensive line is terrible, the only evidence needed to not start Peterman is the Chargers game. I understand that that was a bad game and he can definitely improve, but the natural talent is a big difference. He couldn't throw the ball under pressure even to open receivers, and he had no mobility in the pocket. If a bad O-line is holding the offense back, imagine how it will be when all 11 defenders are playing within 10 yards of the LOS because they don't respect the pass. Allan's mobility, playmaking skills, and arm talent improve the entire offense. Your premise fails to take into account NP's vast improvement during the off season and in camp. He processes the game faster, makes good decisions and gets the ball out faster than either AJ or Allen. And with this OL that's a valuable trait. If DCs want to defense him like a WCO prevent, fine. He's smart enough to opt to runs and has shown some accuracy over the middle. (That said, I just don't want him to throw an out patters to the right.) At this point, he's the best option to put points on the board with this offense.
starrymessenger Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 What Peterman needs to do (amongst other things) is make opposing Ds respect his ability to beat them over the top (as ridiculous as that may sound to some). If he can do that his short passing game (and the Bills run game) will be that much more effective. Of course he will never be able to challenge them in parts of the field that a guy with an arm like Allen can but the TD throw to Streater that was called back travelled 40 yards in the air and was perfectly placed. Streater did not even have to push off to beat the corner, the timing and ball placement was so good. I think his useful range is probably around 50 yards. If he can be very accurate with it that should be good enuf, and he is said to have "long ball" accuracy. It cannot be a staple of his game for a obvious reasons but he doesn't need to do it except occasionally, for example when Ds are playing 100% underneath. He wouldn't be throwing ropes either but if he gets rid of it quickly his receivers can run under it. If he can't do it there's a chance, perhaps even a likelihood, that his game eventually gets snuffed out. Conversely if he can do it his game, and the Bills O, should be elevated to a significant extent. Allen should not be starting now IMO. Maybe later towards the end of the year against weaker opposition if the other guys aren't getting the job done. Andy Reid is said to know QBs. He sat McNabb for most of his rookie year and kept Mahomes off the field in 2017. It's not a universal rule by any means but I think it sometimes makes sense to acclimate these talented prospects gradually, depending on just how raw they are and how good the team around them is. Allen is a raw talent. The Bills don't have many proven, reliable playmakers around him and the line is lousy in pass pro. And Daboll doesn't seem to me to be a ground chuck kinda guy.
ddaryl Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: This forum is becoming AIDS-like Oh do explain that in full detail.. everything discussed here is pretty civil and very honest
whatdrought Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 Just now, Green Lightning said: Your premise fails to take into account NP's vast improvement during the off season and in camp. He processes the game faster, makes good decisions and gets the ball out faster than either AJ or Allen. And with this OL that's a valuable trait. If DCs want to defense him like a WCO prevent, fine. He's smart enough to opt to runs and has shown some accuracy over the middle. (That said, I just don't want him to throw an out patters to the right.) At this point, he's the best option to put points on the board with this offense. Actually, I did say that it was definitely possible that he could have improved. Read my post. As for the argument that he has improved, I think that he has shown some good things. He has also been inconsistent. Every chance he has had to put the nail in the qb competition he has faltered. I think Peterman can be a decent QB in the right situation, but his lack of talent in general is a handicap to this already suffering offense. He is also very mistake prone (Even just looking at this year, and ignoring last) and that is not going to help a bad offense be better.
CommonCents Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 Can’t start Josh after yesterday. The game looked to fast for him. The offensive line never game him a chance and things continued south from there. Those guys should all be embarrassed. They didn’t come to play yesterday and forced a decision on the coach. If they had played better Allen would have had a chance to adjust, he didn’t get that and it’s a shame.
Gugny Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 I voted yes. None of our QBs has looked good with our first string vs. a first string defense. It seems that most here are in agreement that the starting OL hasn't done any of the QBs any favors. Add a couple key drops in yesterday's game, a scramble for (what appeared to be) a first down that should have been challenged, but was not, and some very questionable play-calling by Dabol - and I can't fault Allen much for yesterday's lack of production. I'd say two of the sacks were on him - maybe. Kid had no time. He looked just as good against Cleveland's second string as Peterman looked last night. I feel that if Allen and Peterman are equal, that Allen should get the start because there's no benefit to starting Peterman (he doesn't have much real experience, either). I also feel that Allen and Peterman have both looked better than McCarron. That's why I voted yes. If I had to bet, my money would be on McCarron starting. I do not think Peterman will start unless the other two are injured.
BuffaloFan68 Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 Before yesterday's game I was on board with starting Allen, but now I say start Peterman & have McCarron as back up for the first 4 games. With our O-line, chances are, the QBs will be getting killed anyways.
RiotAct Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 No. He’ll probably be starting by Week 6 anyway, if you know what I mean.
Perry Turtle Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 One of the issues Allen had yesterday was the speed of and familiarity of playing with the ones. He probably would have done better if he wasn't spending most of his time the last 3 months with the 3rd stringers. The only way he gets better in this regard is by playing with the first team (same goes with Peterman). McDermott has decide who he is developing Peterman or Allen, because that guy needs the majority of snaps from here on out. My choice is to give the ball to the 7th pick in the draft. Hiding him is only hurting his development. 1
billybob71 Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 And maybe our receivers looked so blanketed to me in the first half because when the Bengals had the ball there was a stark contrast. Lots of room for them in our secondary yesterday.
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