GoBills808 Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 Safety QB (beyond yesterday) LB CB (White>Darby) Cap imo
Yeezus Posted August 27, 2018 Author Posted August 27, 2018 4 hours ago, mjt328 said: I really hope the message board isn't going to be flooded with these kinds of posts all season. Fans need to get it in their heads. Brandon Beane didn't come in here to patch some holes and make us a Wild Card team. He came here to completely tear-down what the previous regime did, and construct this roster piece-by-piece into a consistent championship contender. That cannot be done in only 1-2 seasons. (I think many fans have already forgotten that Beane didn't even come to Buffalo until May of last year, after Free Agency and the Draft were already wrapped up.) I agree that roster turnover CAN be quick in the NFL. But a lot of that depends on what pieces are already in place. The cornerstones of Doug Whaley's roster were either players that Beane didn't want (Sammy Watkins, Ronald Darby, Marcel Dareus, Reggie Ragland, Cordy Glenn, Tyrod Taylor) or players that have retired this offseason (Eric Wood, Ritchie Incognito). This is a TOTAL rebuild. Our two most important acquisitions this offseason were Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds. The plan is to build the franchise around THESE TWO GUYS for the next decade. Hopefully someday both will become regular Pro Bowlers. But for now, the common trait is that both Allen/Edmunds were considered physical freaks, who were raw and needed LOTS of refinement before reaching their potential. Read the scouting reports before the draft. Neither of these guys were expected to make a tremendous impact as rookies. There will be growing pains, and mistakes. Considering the number of players we decided to part-ways with, the two surprise retirements on the O-Line, our terrible salary cap position, and our desperation to land a franchise-QB --- it was totally unrealistic to expect Beane to fill all of our glaring holes in one offseason. The plan in Free Agency was to be conservative in spending this year, and get the dead-money/bad contracts off the books. Once 2019 hits, the Bills just might have the most cap space in the entire NFL to play around with. And all of our future draft picks. Bottom line. There needs to be an element of patience among the Bills fanbase. - 2018 was all about blowing up the roster and purging the unwanted pieces. - 2019 is about rebuilding the foundation - 2020 will be about filling in those holes If we aren't competing for the AFC East by the end of next year, then we can start criticizing what Beane did right/wrong. Until then, it's way too premature. Then why did Philly win the Super Bowl 2 years after doing exactly what we did? Jaguars hired Marrone and are now a top AFC team. The Rams were forever a 7-9 team, last year they had more success then we had in the last 20 years. Stop giving excuses. Turnaround time in the NFL is usually around 3 years. anything more and something clearly isn't working 1 1
Mango Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: Safety QB (beyond yesterday) LB CB (White>Darby) Cap imo Gotta read the thread man. Safety: Whaley QB: Maybe- I was fine with the TT trade. But Allen needs to pan out. LB: Maybe- Edmunds needs to pan out CB: Whaley drafted White, Beane traded Darby. We could have both. But instead have White and Davis. Cap: this is fair, but not until next year. 1
Yeezus Posted August 27, 2018 Author Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Safety QB (beyond yesterday) LB CB (White>Darby) Cap imo CB?? Gilmore and Darby were a top 5 CB tandom, so wrong there LB?? We currently have one of the worst LB cores in the NFL. Our LB's with Rex were actually decent, wrong again Salery cap is not part of the team so not sure why you are bringing that up. Plenty of past GM's had tons of cap space, Beane has so far shown he doesn't know what to do with it. (gave a bang average DT big money) Edited August 27, 2018 by Yeezus
gobills1212 Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: I'm not one to usually panic or claim victory over preseason games. But, with that said. Our team was very mediocre at best in many categories last year and in some we were flat out terrible. I don't want to hear that we made the playoffs by the skin of our teeth in 2017. I want to know what we are going to do in 2018. We certainly haven't seen anything on the field or on paper (signings/draft picks) that would suggest our dismal offensive and defensive ranking will improve from 2017. I'm not counting on turnover differential, clutch kicks and a miracle play on the final Sunday of the season getting us back to the playoffs. As for Beane, I think it is a legit question at this point. Ultimately, his success is tied to Allen. I'm not sure I can point to a single position group that has been upgraded thanks to Beane. Weren't the Poyer and Hyde signings and the White draft pick all before Beane came on board? At this point McDermott definitely gets far more credit than Beane for any success we have had. I get what you mean, but like i said- this is akin to having a self portrait done and as soon as the circle for the head is drawn they start complaining it doesnt look like them. Its a work in progress. Most people accept this year could be terrible in the name of building a foundation for future years when there is a budget that allows their guys to be brought in. This is the final year of the cleaning of the prior regimes mess. When things dont have to be done on a budget, we can better asses things. With low talent and a rookie qb, take the year and get him experience and then go get needs. Im sure this isnt the team he would field if he didnt have to. We keep going in the same circle bc no one has had the foresight or patience to see this through from start to finish. If anything we should know by now everything is llanned and methodical. This is just part of the picture being painted
Mango Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Yeezus said: Then why did Philly win the Super Bowl 2 years after doing exactly what we did? Jaguars hired Marrone and are now a top AFC team. The Rams were forever a 7-9 team, last year they had more success then we had in the last 20 years. Stop giving excuses. Turnaround time in the NFL is usually around 3 years. anything more and something clearly isn't working Fully agreed. This isn’t the 90’s anymore. Teams don’t take that long to turn around these days. If you aren’t difinitevly better after 3 years, you’ve failed IMO. That’s just the NFL in 2018. 1
Straight Hucklebuck Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, joesixpack said: You realize there's a pretty linear process to rebuilding a team, right? shed contracts ----> eat penalty ---> recover from penalty and rebuild. We're in the "Eat penalty" phase right now. can't go from phase one to phase three, not in the NFL. I think its fair to say that Rex and Whaley built a team that couldn't realistically be asked to win more than 10 games. I think its too early know anything about Beane and McDermott. I am most interested in what their real vision is on offense. McDermott has stood by the run the ball, control field position, it's cold in Buffalo. But they did draft Allen, in large part because he has a rocket arm. So what pieces are they going to add to that side of the ball. WR group is worse, Tight End is unchanged, Offensive Line is worse, RB is same. So if this year is just a punt year, then next offseason needs to be full-go on building offensive skill position and line for Allen, because he needs to be starting Year 2. And that we will need to see some kind of expansion of the offense. If next year comes and the plan is to still dump off, draw on 2nd and 30, and ride 31 year old McCoy to establish the physicality then my faith will plummet.
GoBills808 Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 Just now, Yeezus said: Then why did Philly win the Super Bowl 2 years after doing exactly what we did? Jaguars hired Marrone and are now a top AFC team. The Rams were forever a 7-9 team, last year they had more success then we had in the last 20 years. Stop giving excuses. Turnaround time in the NFL is usually around 3 years. anything more and something clearly isn't working Philly had a good roster for a while. Much better than what Beane inherited imo. Still took them a couple of seasons to mesh. Jags didn't just 'hire Marrone' and then turn it around. They needed to suffer with Bortles for a good long time until they finally retooled the offense, drafted Fournette, and figured out how to max out their super talented defense. Having a lot of premium picks over those years helped. Rams, like Philly, hit paydirt w/ Goff in year 2. He took his lumps first year. Again, defense was stacked...maybe most talented in league. We don't have comparable talent yet. It was more than McVay although he's very, very good at what he does and deserves a ton of credit. Takes time imo.
Yeezus Posted August 27, 2018 Author Posted August 27, 2018 29 minutes ago, dneveu said: We are 11 million under the cap for this year. That carries over into 2019 and gets added to our salary cap. cap space means NOTHING unless a front office knows how to use it. Judging from past moves this current front office doesn't have the eye for talent that Whaley and his crew had. Beane is in way over his head right now. And what teams have ever been successful building their team through FA? We have so many holes on this roster its going to take multiple offseasons to fix. 1 1
GoBills808 Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mango said: Gotta read the thread man. Safety: Whaley QB: Maybe- I was fine with the TT trade. But Allen needs to pan out. LB: Maybe- Edmunds needs to pan out CB: Whaley drafted White, Beane traded Darby. We could have both. But instead have White and Davis. Cap: this is fair, but not until next year. Yeh I get all that sorry. Didn't read the OP well enough. Beane and McD are doing what they know worked from Carolina. Drafting the big QB prospect and the MLB defensive anchor. It worked there and it might work here too. They need time to get it to gel but the blueprint is down there in Charlotte. 1
Mango Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Yeezus said: cap space means NOTHING unless a front office knows how to use it. Judging from past moves this current front office doesn't have the eye for talent that Whaley and his crew had. Beane is in way over his head right now. And what teams have ever been successful building their team through FA? We have so many holes on this roster its going to take multiple offseasons to fix. Are you telling me FA signings like Starr, Tolbert, Bodine, Newhouse, Kerley, and Davis aren’t inspiring a whole lot of confidence in the FO? Edited August 27, 2018 by Mango
Yeezus Posted August 27, 2018 Author Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said: Unfortunately GM Whaley had alot of garbage on the roster, we purged the garbage and now were trying to fill it in until we draft/pickup the non garbage.The purge took a year, now were slowly filling in the pieces... QB- check, RB- check, WR- incomplete, OL- big need, DL- check, LB- incomplete, secondary- imcomplete, Beane and McDermott have their work cut out for them but I think they're both more than capable of handling it. Dline? LOL We had one of the best pass rushes in the league with Rex and now are ranked near dead last. Our Dline is a joke. 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Yeh I get all that sorry. Didn't read the OP well enough. Beane and McD are doing what they know worked from Carolina. Drafting the big QB prospect and the MLB defensive anchor. It worked there and it might work here too. They need time to get it to gel but the blueprint is down there in Charlotte. Carolina had 1 good season and make the superbowl and got crushed by a far better team. hasn't done anything before or after that season. why would we follow their blueprint. Edited August 27, 2018 by Yeezus 1
LSHMEAB Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 I'm more concerned about what he HAS addressed, namely the defensive line. When I look at the additions of Trent Murphy and Star Lotulelei, I'm reminded of the Tom Donahoe glorly days of Dennelsay and Tim Anderson. High motor lunch pail guys with virtually no explosiveness. The entire front seven looked like they were locked a Tecmo style perfectly blocked play. 2
wppete Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 I don’t know if he made many improvements this year except for adding some good Rookies. We will see what he does next year in FA with all that money. We will then know how good he is.
GunnerBill Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 14 hours ago, Agent 91 said: I actually did..... Don't throw anything at me. Whaley built the 2015 roster which was infinitely more talented than anything Beane has got close to building yet. His greatest fault was not saying "No" on the Rex hire. 1
ngbills Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 As of today: What position group is better than a few years ago? QB - Not yet. Hopefully Allen makes this a yes. RB - Older McCoy WR - Nobody. OL - Awful DL - Not awful, but worse. LB - Right now P Brown would be upgrade. Edmunds better pan out. DB - Only unit close to better but not looking it lately. 1
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said: I'm more concerned about what he HAS addressed, namely the defensive line. When I look at the additions of Trent Murphy and Star Lotulelei, I'm reminded of the Tom Donahoe glorly days of Dennelsay and Tim Anderson. High motor lunch pail guys with virtually no explosiveness. The entire front seven looked like they were locked a Tecmo style perfectly blocked play. I'm more concerned with the lack of murphy than anything else. I knew coming in not to expect a ton from lotulelei. I expect him to be better than what we trotted out there at the end of 2016. I'm not sure how much better though - nor do i think he will outpace or even earn the dollars we gave him. 1
GoBills808 Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Yeezus said: Dline? LOL We had one of the best pass rushes in the league with Rex and now are ranked near dead last. Our Dline is a joke. Carolina had 1 good season and make the superbowl and got crushed by a far better team. why would we follow their blueprint. They're a perennial playoff contender in a tough division. Every year they're competing against 2 HoF QBs. NFCS sent 3 teams to the playoffs last year. It's a strategy that worked for them. Yeah they didn't actually win the SB but at least they got there...I'd settle for that. Imagine being the Steelers and not having a SB while Bell, Roethisberger, AND Brown were in their primes.
Mango Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 Just now, GunnerBill said: Whaley built the 2015 roster which was infinitely more talented than anything Beane has got close to building yet. His greatest fault was not saying "No" on the Rex hire. I agree with this. I am generally a Whaley supporter about most of his moves. Whaley’s biggest down fall was NEVER being able to hire his own HC to run the pieces he put together. but... Part of his job is to generate trust and buy from the people above him to make those moves. In that regard Beane is far out performing him. Whether Beane is successful in personnel moves remains to be seen. Right now he is losing to Whaley in that regard. 1
GunnerBill Posted August 27, 2018 Posted August 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Yeezus said: Dline? LOL We had one of the best pass rushes in the league with Rex and now are ranked near dead last. Our Dline is a joke. Errr, no we didn't. That was the two years under Marrone with Pettine and Schwartz as the DCs. We were 31st in the league in sacks in Rex's first year. We ended up 8th in sacks his second year but basically feasted on poor teams the first 7 weeks and went quiet after that.
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