What areas of the team has Beane actually improved?

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

To answer the question. 

 

Safety has been upgraded: Colt Anderson, Johnathon Meeks, Corey Graham and Rob Blanton to Hyde, Poyer and Bush.

 

 

Then you have to go position by position.

 

QB - Hard to say that for 2018 we got better from Tyrod. Longterm its all on Allen.

 

RB - No. We took McCoy, a Whaley holdover, and haven't added any other names other than Matt Murphy and Mike Tolbert. 

 

WR - Watkins, Woods, Goodwin to Benjamin, Jones and Streater? No upgrade here.

 

Offensive Line - Is Dawkins better than Glenn? Unlikely. Then Incognito reverted back to what he was. Wood had to retire. They love Ducasse for some reason, John Miller is starting again, and they still can't find anyone better than Jordan Mills. Not upgraded.

 

Tight End - Took a Whaley holdover, Charles Clay, and have done nothing but added street scrubs behind him. No upgrade. 

 

Defensive Line - It was Dareus, Williams, Hughes, Lawson. Now its Star L, Williams, I do like the Phillips pick, Hughes and Murphy. No upgrade.

 

Linebackers - Was Alexander, Preston Brown, Zach Brown. Now its Alexander, Edmunds, Millano. I think that's a downgrade with no depth. 

 

Safety - Already covered, upgraded. 

 

Cornerback - Was Gilmore, Darby, Coleman, now is White, Davis, Johnson, Gaines. Gilmore leaving, good riddance, the Darby trade was never a good one in my opinion, and I liked Coleman. They hit on White (although Beane wasn't here when he was drafted) and they got by last year with E.J. Gaines off the street. I'd say this is a push. I'd like this group if it was White and Darby. But without Darby, we're ok, but not better than average. No upgrade.  

 

Beane didn’t bring in Hyde or Poyer, Whaley did. I don’t know why people keep using them as an example, it’s a bad one because the credit goes to the prior regime. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, Mango said:

 

Beane didn’t bring in Hyde or Poyer, Whaley did. I don’t know why people keep using them as an example, it’s a bad one because the credit goes to the prior regime. 

 

Mango, you're right, my bad. 

 

Whaley was here until after the draft. 

 

Ok, with that said then Beane has not upgraded any area of this team. 

[Mango]

Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

Mango, you're right, my bad. 

 

Whaley was here until after the draft. 

 

Ok, with that said then Beane has not upgraded any area of this team. 

 

Not to pile on, but White was also not a Beane draft pick. Haha. 

 

Too bad EJ Gaines couldn’t stay healthy for us, and we didn’t offer him an extension.  I was fine with the Watkins trade for him since we were never going to pay him. A healthy and re-signed Gaines would have been a great Beane move.

 

but I guess that’s too many what if’s...

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

Not to pile on, but White was also not a Beane draft pick. Haha. 

 

Too bad EJ Gaines couldn’t stay healthy for us, and we didn’t offer him an extension.  I was fine with the Watkins trade for him since we were never going to pay him. A healthy and re-signed Gaines would have been a great Beane move.

 

but I guess that’s too many what if’s...

 

Mango, I did point out that White was drafted when Beane wasn't there. 

 

I too was okay with Watkins. I think its been 4 years and he has yet to have a season better than Steve Johnson. I think he's a 600-900 yard guy with 6 TDs, a #2 WR. I don't think he becomes the #1 in Kansas City. I think he is clearly behind Hill and Kelce for targets. We keep waiting for this Watkins explosion, and what you get is 2 catches, 32 yards, 0 TDs. 

 

It's clear that the best remaining players on this roster: McCoy, Hyde, Poyer, Alexander, White were all Whaley holdovers or not guys that Beane drafted. 

 

Really, he has brought in Kelvin Benjamin and Star L. Obviously his big swings so far are Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds. He had bad luck with Richie losing his mind and Wood having to retire. Other than that, the next best player he's brought in? Harrison Phillips?

 

 

[The Final Word]

I cannot assure you with 100percent certainty, something big is coming.trust the process and beane

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

55 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Yeah, I understand the reasoning, I just disagree with it. Dareus carries more in dead cap space this year, than he would have on the actual roster. We also could have either straight cut him after this season with ZERO cap implications. We are paying his replacement the same amount we would pay him if he were on the roster, for lesser production. 

 

We aren't paying his base salary this year though - The dead money is money we already gave him. 

[dubs]

41 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Not to pile on, but White was also not a Beane draft pick. Haha. 

 

Too bad EJ Gaines couldn’t stay healthy for us, and we didn’t offer him an extension.  I was fine with the Watkins trade for him since we were never going to pay him. A healthy and re-signed Gaines would have been a great Beane move.

 

but I guess that’s too many what if’s...

 

Ok, so basically you’re saying that because in the 15 months he’s been at the helm Beane hasn’t upgraded every position on the roster while acquiring draft picks and getting future cap room that he’s done a bad job or is worse than Whaley?  Jeez, get a grip man. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

OTC has us at nearly $71 million under the cap next season: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/buffalo-bills/ . What do you mean when you refer to carrying over $10 million? 

 

We are 11 million under the cap for this year.  That carries over into 2019 and gets added to our salary cap.

[Mango]

1 minute ago, dubs said:

 

Ok, so basically you’re saying that because in the 15 months he’s been at the helm Beane hasn’t upgraded every position on the roster while acquiring draft picks and getting future cap room that he’s done a bad job or is worse than Whaley?  Jeez, get a grip man. 

 

Huh...did you follow the thread/quote at all. I was commenting on a guy that said Beane upgraded the secondary. He didn't, at all. That isn't really up for debate, because, well, it is definitely worse.

 

The thread is about what position(s) did Beane upgrade. There may be reasons, like draft capital, and clearing cap space as to why some are not upgraded. What positions do you think are upgraded on the current 2018 roster from the 2016 or 2017 roster?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

Ok, so basically you’re saying that because in the 15 months he’s been at the helm Beane hasn’t upgraded every position on the roster while acquiring draft picks and getting future cap room that he’s done a bad job or is worse than Whaley?  Jeez, get a grip man. 

 

I'm at it's too early. 

 

But no position group is better now than it was when Beane took over. 

 

With Allen on-board now, I want to see what offense Beane really crafts here. Because he can't think that running a 30 year old McCoy and throwing out routes to Benjamin is going to get this offense into the modern era. 

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

We are 11 million under the cap for this year.  That carries over into 2019 and gets added to our salary cap.

Oh - OK. So we're really 60 million under and OTC is adding the 11 million to that number? 

What happens if trade for Mack?  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

Huh...did you follow the thread/quote at all. I was commenting on a guy that said Beane upgraded the secondary. He didn't, at all. That isn't really up for debate, because, well, it is definitely worse.

 

The thread is about what position(s) did Beane upgrade. There may be reasons, like draft capital, and clearing cap space as to why some are not upgraded. What positions do you think are upgraded on the current 2018 roster from the 2016 or 2017 roster?

 

Great correction Mango. I was wrong and wasn't thinking. Hyde and Poyer were 2017 Free Agent signings in March. Beane wasn't here. 

 

And I think its fair to say Bean has not made one move than clearly has upgraded this team over what it had, only his swings on Allen and Edmunds that we have to wait and see how it pans out. 

[dubs]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Huh...did you follow the thread/quote at all. I was commenting on a guy that said Beane upgraded the secondary. He didn't, at all. That isn't really up for debate, because, well, it is definitely worse.

 

The thread is about what position(s) did Beane upgrade. There may be reasons, like draft capital, and clearing cap space as to why some are not upgraded. What positions do you think are upgraded on the current 2018 roster from the 2016 or 2017 roster?

 

My point is that it’s really myopic to look at that. I’d much rather the Bills be where they are now than where they were at the beginning of 2016 or 2017. 

 

 

[Lurker]

One glance and I just knew who started this thread by the title...   

[Mango]

1 minute ago, dubs said:

 

My point is that it’s really myopic to look at that. I’d much rather the Bills be where they are now than where they were at the beginning of 2016 or 2017. 

 

 

 

I would disagree with that, totally. 

 

Obviously there is some nuance and explanation to a lot of the moves, but it is not asking too much of your GM, after 15 months, to make a single position or positional group better than what they inherited.

 

Right now we are hoping that the future is better for us with Edmunds and Allen, but those are still question marks. Maybe DE is better with Trent Murphy over Shaq? 

[Boatdrinks]

44 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

Mango, I did point out that White was drafted when Beane wasn't there. 

 

I too was okay with Watkins. I think its been 4 years and he has yet to have a season better than Steve Johnson. I think he's a 600-900 yard guy with 6 TDs, a #2 WR. I don't think he becomes the #1 in Kansas City. I think he is clearly behind Hill and Kelce for targets. We keep waiting for this Watkins explosion, and what you get is 2 catches, 32 yards, 0 TDs. 

 

It's clear that the best remaining players on this roster: McCoy, Hyde, Poyer, Alexander, White were all Whaley holdovers or not guys that Beane drafted. 

 

Really, he has brought in Kelvin Benjamin and Star L. Obviously his big swings so far are Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds. He had bad luck with Richie losing his mind and Wood having to retire. Other than that, the next best player he's brought in? Harrison Phillips?

 

 

Can’t agree with this at all. The Bills would be significantly better off with Watkins at WR. He had 8 TDS last year ( most among Rams WRs) on just 70  targets. He’s clearly a #1, and was paid like it. He can only get open, he couldn’t make Goff throw him the ball. As you point out, he’s gone to a team with some other really good options for spreading the ball around. That’s what coaches like to do, and is the sign of a good offense. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

My point is that it’s really myopic to look at that. I’d much rather the Bills be where they are now than where they were at the beginning of 2016 or 2017. 

 

 

Okay, but this is based mostly on faith in McDermott and Beane over the Whaley and Rex.

 

It's based on future cap space and what Allen could be, rather than actual players they have brought in. 

 

Is that fair to say? 

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Oh - OK. So we're really 60 million under and OTC is adding the 11 million to that number? 

What happens if trade for Mack?  

 

It depends on his extension - odd's are they would load him up with full guarantees to 2019/2020 base salarys, and a hefty signing bonus -  to keep his base salary pretty low this year.  So probably 20 mil-ish bonus - 30 mil in 2019/2020 salary, and 10 mil this year.  So about 60 million fully guaranteed, and 2021 being practically guaranteed with some kind of "if hes on the roster on x date, 2021 salary becomes guaranteed - etc so that numbers closer to 75. 

 

So you end up with something like 6 years probably close to 130-140 million or so - with say 70-80 being fully guaranteed.  And the contracts built to lower base salary if you need to.

 

This estimates an overpay after donald resets the market.

Edited August 27, 2018 by dneveu

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Okay, but this is based mostly on faith in McDermott and Beane over the Whaley and Rex.

 

It's based on future cap space and what Allen could be, rather than actual players they have brought in. 

 

Is that fair to say? 

 

 

 

You realize there's a pretty linear process to rebuilding a team, right?

 

shed contracts ----> eat penalty ---> recover from penalty and rebuild.

 

We're in the "Eat penalty" phase right now.

 

can't go from phase one to phase three, not in the NFL.

 

[ghostwriter]

Beane improved QB for sure, I like McCarron and I think Josh Allen can be a franchise QB, not right away though but down the road, ideally Allen doesn't play a regular season snap this year, if we bring him along slow he can be a good one.

 

Beane is a great great great GM, I trust him on QBs especially and I trust him on defense too. Let's see what he does with 7 draft picks and 70 million in cap space.