What areas of the team has Beane actually improved?

[mjt328]

21 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Dareus is better than Starr. Sorry, it’s true. We had an out after this season in his contract that would have dropped dead cap space to around 3 mil. Instead we are paying Starr 10 and 13 in dead space for Dareus, to DOWNGRADE the position.

 

Darby is better than Vontae and probable EJ Gaines. And he was incredibly cheap. We took on dead cap and created a hole for a few games of Jordan Matthews? 

 

Preston Brown signed a 4 year deal and led the league in tackles. While not great, he’s average or slightly better than average. Currently he’s a better LB than Edmunds. We could have both considering Preston’s contract is a whopping 4 million dollars. 

 

Our line one is better with Glenn than without. Dawkins was drafted to play RT. Glenn counts 9.6 million in dead cap space. 

 

Most of our cap issues re:dead cap space is self created. 

 

As of today, if the season started tomorrow, we are worse or the same at virtually every single position on the roster. If Edmunds and Allen pan out, ok, but that’s where we are today. It’s an incredibly dangerous move from the FO. 

 

I fully agree, build through the draft, but you don’t just go create problems for yourself just because. We aren’t cutting/trading anybody nearly as bad vs. highly paid as Dockery or Walker. These are dudes playing on good teams.

 

The topic is, “what areas of the roster did Beane improve?” I’m still waiting for your answer. There were good football players on this team, that are currently still hampering our cap. We spent our draft on a QB and MLB, neither of which have made an immediate impact. (Which is OK, but doesn’t make it any less true).  Where on the roster are we better than we were 365 years ago, today? Not 3 years from now, today.

 

We can heavily invest in these two guys and still get better SOMEWHERE. But we didn’t. It’s a valid criticism, and worthy of concern moving forward, especially in terms of trusting the talent evaluation of the FO. They traded a bunch of decent to good NFL players for two maybes, and brought nobody else in. If it works out they win, and I openly put my tail between my legs. 

 

 

From the moment they walked in the door, Brandon Beane's plan was to:

- Get rid of bad contracts and fix their salary cap situation

- Stockpile draft picks to help obtain a franchise QB and rebuild the roster

- Bring in players who fit the coaching staff's vision

 

The short-sighted thoughts of some fans on this board are absolutely astounding.

Anyone with the slightest hint of common sense, would realize this was a 2-3 year project at minimum.

 

The plan isn't to make the Bills better "today" or to finish 9-7 during the 2018 season.  The plan is to build a Super Bowl Contender.

This wasn't going to happen with Tyrod Taylor's average play at Quarterback.  This wasn't going to happen with Marcel Dareus getting suspended every season.  This wasn't going to happen with Sammy Watkins underachieving.  This wasn't going to happen with Preston Brown making tackles 4-5 yards down the field.

 

The reason for all those trades was for draft capital to get OUR GUY at the most important position in the NFL.

The reason for the large chunks of dead cap-space this year, is because it makes us TOTALLY free and clear next season. 

The reason we take 1-2 steps back THIS year, is because it will allow us to take 5-6 steps forward NEXT year

 

 

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Agree with most of this but I do think the Gaines - Davis assumption is a fair assumption. Taking a guy at the tail end of his career, off an injury, who has been mainly a man corner in his NFL career and asking him to replace a guy in our mainly zone scheme who while brittle is a very capable zone corner was always a risk. At the moment I don't see it panning out. We are not getting the Pro Bowl Vontae Davis. Don't think that guy is there anymore. 

 

People seem to forget that EJ Gaines missed 5 games last year (and is already hurt again).

 

Until Davis got roasted in Sunday's preseason game, most people felt he was going to be a good pickup.

 

Maybe we need to wait until the season actually plays out before calling this one a downgrade.

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t fully disagree with this.  But I hate double standards. Seems like there are a lot going on here.

 

1). I generally think Whaley was a better GM than most fans give him credit for.  That 2014 Bills team would have killed last year’s.  But because of a crap AFC, we backed into the playoffs.

 

i did hate Whaley’s trade up.  Well guess what the new regime is doing??? Trading up!  Why are some people giving them a pass on them.  I do really like Edmunds but he needs to be a MLB in the mood of Kuechly to justify it.

 

2) I love that you point out being stuck with high price contracts and the new regime just gave out big money contracts to Star, Murphy, and Ivory.  In what world is giving 3 million dollars to a backup rb a good deal?  How about a guy coming off a major injury and a PED suspension?

 

this new regime is making some of the same mistakes and we have less talent to show for it. Josh Allen And Edmunds need to be very good.

I never had a problem with how the previous regime spent money in Free Agency, or with some of the high-priced contracts we gave out (Dareus, Glenn, etc.), or even with bold trades being made on draft day (Watkins).  If that was the avenue Doug Whaley felt was best to build the roster, then so be it.  I was willing to see how it played out.

 

The problem was, the Buffalo Bills were only marginally better in the win column after 3-4 years with him in charge.  They still didn't have a franchise QB.  The roster was among the oldest in the NFL.  And their salary cap situation was in bad shape.  I agree that Whaley got somewhat of a raw deal (not being able to hire his own head coach, the change in ownership, etc.)  But at the end of the day, his decisions were not good enough to make us a champion.

 

Nobody knows how Beane's moves will ultimately pan out.  In 3 years, we may look back and decide he was the worst GM in our team's history.  I just find it ridiculous to make those kind of assessments at this point of his tenure.  He's had exactly one offseason.  We just finished our third preseason game.  At some point in the future, Beane will be forced to answer for the Lotulelei/Murphy/Ivory signings.  At some point he will need to answer for the Allen/Edmunds trade-ups.  But that day is NOT today.

 

 

 

 

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

I never had a problem with how the previous regime spent money in Free Agency, or with some of the high-priced contracts we gave out (Dareus, Glenn, etc.), or even with bold trades being made on draft day (Watkins).  If that was the avenue Doug Whaley felt was best to build the roster, then so be it.  I was willing to see how it played out.

 

The problem was, the Buffalo Bills were only marginally better in the win column after 3-4 years with him in charge.  They still didn't have a franchise QB.  The roster was among the oldest in the NFL.  And their salary cap situation was in bad shape.  I agree that Whaley got somewhat of a raw deal (not being able to hire his own head coach, the change in ownership, etc.)  But at the end of the day, his decisions were not good enough to make us a champion.

 

Nobody knows how Beane's moves will ultimately pan out.  In 3 years, we may look back and decide he was the worst GM in our team's history.  I just find it ridiculous to make those kind of assessments at this point of his tenure.  He's had exactly one offseason.  We just finished our third preseason game.  At some point in the future, Beane will be forced to answer for the Lotulelei/Murphy/Ivory signings.  At some point he will need to answer for the Allen/Edmunds trade-ups.  But that day is NOT today.

 

 

 

 

 

This is actually super fair and good perspective.

 

It is really good middle ground. As much as the “trust the process” guys aren’t always saying Beane is the greatest. The “the roster is $&@?!$& worse” guys (myself admittedly) aren’t saying Beane is the worst. 

 

Thanks for the level headedness 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

People seem to forget that EJ Gaines missed 5 games last year (and is already hurt again).

 

Until Davis got roasted in Sunday's preseason game, most people felt he was going to be a good pickup.

 

Maybe we need to wait until the season actually plays out before calling this one a downgrade.

 

Davis had been bad in all pre-season games and I have thought all pre-season the chances are he is a less good fit in this scheme than Gaines who I said the day he signed here was going to be an excellent pick up - and he was. Might I be wrong? Of course. But at this stage I don't think it is a silly or unrealistic assumption. There are very good reasons to think that might be the case. 

 

EDIT: I have just watched McD's presser from yesterday where he says that position is still open and Davis and Philip Gaines are still competing but he needs to see "better play from that position for us to be a good defense."

 

I don't blame anyone for expecting a downgrade at this stage I think it is slightly wishful thinking to expect anything else. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by GunnerBill

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 8/27/2018 at 8:57 AM, Freddie's Dead said:

He blows goats, we have proof.  So Ducaca was Whaley?  ****.

 

Castillo was one of the first hires McDermott made, and Ducasse was Castillo's boy from the Ravens. 

 

So yeah, technically he was a Whaley personnel acquisition, but I doubt Whaley had anything to do with it.

 

7 hours ago, joesixpack said:

This is almost miraculous, I'm on the same page as A-Dawg and domdab99 this year.

 

Scary when you find yourself agreeing with a post, then look at the author and go "!@#!@$$#%#$^??"

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

The problem was, the Buffalo Bills were only marginally better in the win column after 3-4 years with him in charge.  They still didn't have a franchise QB.  The roster was among the oldest in the NFL.  And their salary cap situation was in bad shape.  I agree that Whaley got somewhat of a raw deal (not being able to hire his own head coach, the change in ownership, etc.)  But at the end of the day, his decisions were not good enough to make us a champion.

 

 

Coaches get judged on Ws and Ls. I think with GMs the assessment has to be a little deeper. Pretty much everyone agrees that 2015 was the year the drought should have ended and that going 8-8 with that roster was a major underachievement. So bad of one in fact that I (normally the polar opposite of a hire 'em and fire 'em merchant) would have fired Rex Ryan after only 1 year and if the stories are to be believed Pegula came pretty darn close to doing so. That roster was ready to win and not just 9-7 and sneak in. That roster should have won 10 or 11 games. I predicted a 10 win season that year and it is the only time I have ever got close to predicting that in my Bills fandom (since 02). 

 

None of which is to say I think Whaley was harshly fired. I think he made mistakes ane he struggled to get on with people. But I don't think when assessing a GM without coach hiring power it is as easy as "what is the W-L record?"

[Trogdor]

On 8/27/2018 at 9:38 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

TBD in my book, everyone has swings and misses.

So far Beans is hitting .000 with Free Agents. Is there a solid contributor at all from his pick ups?

[COTC]

11 pages. You must have your answers by now. 

 

0.0

Edited August 29, 2018 by COTC

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

So far Beans is hitting .000 with Free Agents. Is there a solid contributor at all from his pick ups?

 

Given that Beane has only been here for one full free-agency period, and those free agents have yet to play a snap in a regular-season game, I think it's too soon to judge.

 

You?

[Orlando Buffalo]

11 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Pitiful OL performance all pre season. After a season of varied results, mostly bolstered by the performance of the left side of the line. 

 

I think the larger gripe is that the FO has literally been preaching for us to trust them. Now 15 months into the job, we are seeing the results of their trust. They lost 2 pro bowl lineman, with a terrible right side, and traded away another talented (albeit injured) LT, and made no real attempt to fortify those positions, we should “trust” them. 

 

Since Beane took over, virtually EVERY SINGLE position on this roster is worse than the day he started. In 15 months it’s not crazy for us to expect some position to be better. Allen might be the guy. MIGHT. Which is fine, swing for your QB, but you can get better elsewear. Same with Edmunds. He might be better than Preston Brown, but he’s leading a LB corps that is under performaing last years group. 

 

QB- Worse (today)

RB- Same. Although Murphy looks good.

FB- Same

WR1- Same (not good enough)

WR2- Same (Zay- not good enough)

TE- Same 

LT- Same

LG- Worse

C- Worse

RG- Same (bad)

RT- Same (bad)

 

LDE- Same 

DT- Same

DT- Worse (sorry Dareus is better) 

RDE- Same (until Trent proves otherwise/healthy and currently not good enough)

 

OLB-Same (not god enough)

MLB-Same (that’s being generous)

OLB- Same (not good enough)

 

CB1- Same

CB2- Worse

Safeties- Same

CB3- Worse

I agree many have not been improved as far as talent but dareus was lazy as all get out. He could dominate when he chose but he chose not to care more often. But i thought beane brought in our secondary? Maybe my timeline is messed up but he brought in safeties and i also think taylor was maxed out- he would turn us into first round playoff losers. I have been that fan in other sports not fun.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Buffalo Timmy

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The guy has been here for 1 year. In that year we made the playoffs for the first time in 17 seasons. We moved headaches for multiple picks and players. We won without all of those guys Whaley favored. Brought in several veterans that helped make last season very special. We beat Atl in Atl, KC in KC, swept Miami...No games that count have been played this year and people are down on the GM? The last game we played was a playoff game. Are people really like this? Football is a team game. The team is better. Don’t be surprised if we end up being good again this year. For once the guys in charge know what they are doing. How can anyone be down on the Bills front office in the offseason following the drought ending? 

[Bills Pimpin']

11 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Pitiful OL performance all pre season. After a season of varied results, mostly bolstered by the performance of the left side of the line. 

 

I think the larger gripe is that the FO has literally been preaching for us to trust them. Now 15 months into the job, we are seeing the results of their trust. They lost 2 pro bowl lineman, with a terrible right side, and traded away another talented (albeit injured) LT, and made no real attempt to fortify those positions, we should “trust” them. 

 

Since Beane took over, virtually EVERY SINGLE position on this roster is worse than the day he started. In 15 months it’s not crazy for us to expect some position to be better. Allen might be the guy. MIGHT. Which is fine, swing for your QB, but you can get better elsewear. Same with Edmunds. He might be better than Preston Brown, but he’s leading a LB corps that is under performaing last years group. 

 

QB- Worse (today)

RB- Same. Although Murphy looks good.

FB- Same

WR1- Same (not good enough)

WR2- Same (Zay- not good enough)

TE- Same 

LT- Same

LG- Worse

C- Worse

RG- Same (bad)

RT- Same (bad)

 

LDE- Same 

DT- Same

DT- Worse (sorry Dareus is better) 

RDE- Same (until Trent proves otherwise/healthy and currently not good enough)

 

OLB-Same (not god enough)

MLB-Same (that’s being generous)

OLB- Same (not good enough)

 

CB1- Same

CB2- Worse

Safeties- Same

CB3- Worse

I don't understand this post. Who are you comparing in your list of positions? 2016 to last year? Certainly you are not comparing anyone to 2018 because the season hasn't started yet. You know that right? I want to make sure you know a game that counts hasn't been played. 

[Ol Dirty B]

15 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

 

There were two reasons why Whaley's tenure was a failure.  He couldn't find a reliable QB & he was underminded by Rusty & the Pegula's with the Rex Ryan hire. It is really as simple as that.  He built a pretty talented roster.   

 

Completely agree with you. And that's not to say these guys here now won't be successful going forward.

10 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

What a terrible assessment.  I don't even know where to start with this utter nonsense.

 

First of all, the 15 months that Brandon Beane has been on the job has included exactly ONE period of Free Agency and exactly ONE draft class. 

And NONE of the acquisitions made this offseason have played even a single snap for the Buffalo Bills yet.

 

Every smart team (especially those rebuilding) are built through the Draft.  But apparently you don't agree, because all of the places we got rid of an average veteran (Tyrod Taylor, Preston Brown) and replaced them with a top prospect (Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmunds), you considered that a downgrade or a wash.

 

So basically, your assessment of this roster comes down COMPLETELY to what we did in Free Agency...

Of course, completely ignoring that Beane's hands were totally tied because of cap space and high-priced contracts handed out by the previous front office.

You have also determined that Pro-Bowler Vontae Davis is a downgrade to the always-injured EJ Gaines - I'm assuming based on one bad preseason game.

You have also determined that Star Lotulelei is a downgrade to Marcel Dareus, who is currently a backup in Jacksonville and hasn't played well in 3 seasons now.

 

 

 

So you're criticizing EJ Gaines for be injured, yet mentioning Vontae Davis... Who was also hurt last year and hasn't made the pro bowl I think since Dareus last made the pro bowl. Honestly man, you're assessment made no sense and wasn't consistent.

 

I think he will, but Sal Cappaccio and others are reporting that they think Davis might not even win the starting job.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Bob in STL]

What areas of the team has Beane improved?

 

OL - no, worse due to injuries and retirements 

WR - no, worse

QB - TBD 

RB -  same 

TE - same

 

DL - no, but a work in process

LB - depends on Edmunds

CB - same or maybe better

S - definitely improved 

 

kicking - improved 

 

coaching - much better

 

lots of work ahead, need another year for sure.  

[Doc Brown]

He's only been here 15 months and it's clear he's been in clear rebuild mode since then.  He's only had one draft.  Give the man some time.

[Trogdor]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Given that Beane has only been here for one full free-agency period, and those free agents have yet to play a snap in a regular-season game, I think it's too soon to judge.

 

You?

Include his trades from last year. I think he needs a better scouting department, because almost none of those guys contributed. It's just frustrating to go from a stacked roster with terrible coaching to a terrible roster. I'm not even sure most of these guys get a look by other teams.

4 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

What areas of the team has Beane improved?

 

OL - no, worse due to injuries and retirements 

WR - no, worse

QB - TBD 

RB -  same 

TE - same

 

DL - no, but a work in process

LB - depends on Edmunds

CB - same or maybe better

S - definitely improved 

 

kicking - improved 

 

coaching - much better

 

lots of work ahead, need another year for sure.  

I think DL for him hinges on Murphy and Star. They may have found KWs replacement. I don't think the CBs are better, and who was added to improve S? I'm not even ready to give coaching an improvement until the same sloppy Rex penalties get cleared up. Clock management, lack of control, and the inability to challenge are all still issues he is learning.

[Jpsredemption]

On 8/27/2018 at 2:08 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

To spend on who?

 

There is a ton of cap space available around the league.  

 

Teams lock up their players or trade them and the few good ones that make it to FA have their choice of a dozen teams with plenty of cap room each year.

 

Until the next CBA at least the value in FA is going to be guys like Lorax or Zach Brown or Hyde/Poyer......under radar/projection types.   

To spend on Trent Murphy and Star L. types

[BeginnersMind]

On 8/26/2018 at 11:28 PM, Ol Dirty B said:

Whaley also constructed a 9-7 team that was far more talented. He never sat on his hands, seemed to always be trying to improve the team. I really think his weakness in areas of communications, his presser, and the Pegulas being totally inept contributed to his down fall. I really think he came into a lot of dysfunction, if he was able to do the job the way a GM should be, I think he'd succeed. He brought in way more talent to this team than this current regime did. I know it's not a popular opinion, but when you look at it, what has the regime done? They really got lucky. Next year and the year after will be when we can crown them if they are good at their job.

 

Beane got a roster with a ton of salary mess and gigantic holes at:

 

QB (no one decent)

WR (Watkins?! the big name)

LB (no one)

DL (almost retired Williams who is great but nearly out, lazy massively overpaid Dareus)

DB (Gilmore who was at best only "good")

 

Then, two pro bowl O-lineman retire in one off-season...and Beane has no budget to fix all the holes because they are still paying off the bloat left from Whaley. 

 

I can't blame this mess on Beane. Whaley was kicking problems down the road, and Beane got them. He's setting the team up for +3 years but it's going to take time to overcome the dreck Whaley left behind. I don't know if he's making the right moves but we need to give him time. We are going to see journeymen like Star and Murphy while he tries to build something better. But I expect a couple 6 win seasons.  

[reddogblitz]

13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

He's only been here 15 months and it's clear he's been in clear rebuild mode since then.  He's only had one draft.  Give the man some time.

 

i agree  with this. However, he did run off Sammy and Dareus and Ragland and has not replaced them with anyone better. WR, LB, and DL are still Areas of weakness for us.

 

Winning for a change has been nice though.

 

Hopefully all this works out.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

20 hours ago, COTC said:

11 pages. You must have your answers by now. 

 

0.0

 

...comprehension may be an impediment.......McBeane just conducted his FIRST draft at OBD with McD, our ROOKIE HC in 2017........so that EXTENSIVE body or work is more than enough to conclude he hasn't done squat....ignorance is bliss....look for smiling posters then.....you'll know.........