Erie County Budget Mess

[gmac17]

When the cuts were first floated, Erie County DA Frank Clark said that they would result in "anarchy on the streets of Buffalo." How can anyone argue that he's even a smidgen wrong?

 

 

uh, I'll argue that he's at least a smidgen wrong. There is no anarchy in the streets.

[Mark VI]

Medicaid reform is needed. So is reform of Gov't in Erie County.

 

Go to the Rath Bldg. and look at the County Offices. Then walk over to City Hall and look at those offices. They're the same. Then look at all the towns and villages in the County. More of the same. The services in Erie County are overlapping 2 or 3 times. TOO MUCH GOV'T.

 

Regionalism is long overdue and the taxpayers have finally stood up to the thieves who gladly take our hard earned $$ and waste it. All these little fiefdoms of graf must come to an end.

 

I do enjoy the fact that all the legislators,Naples,Giambra and others , have been reduced to crap throwing monkeys on the local news. They will all come out of this looking bad because they failed to address the problem.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

Medicaid reform is needed. So is reform of Gov't in Erie County.

 

Go to the Rath Bldg. and look at the County Offices. Then walk over to City Hall and look at those offices. They're the same. Then look at all the towns and villages in the County. More of the same. The services in Erie County are overlapping 2 or 3 times. TOO MUCH GOV'T.

 

  Regionalism is long overdue and the taxpayers have finally stood up to the thieves who gladly take our hard earned $$ and waste it. All these little fiefdoms of graf must come to an end.

 

I do enjoy the fact that all the legislators,Naples,Giambra and others , have been reduced to crap throwing monkeys on the local news. They will all come out of this looking bad because they failed to address the problem.

281897[/snapback]

 

Sounds like it's time for 'Mayor Mark VI'...

[ChevyVanMiller]

Ouch!

 

I can't say that I didn't ask for your opinions, but I certainly expected respectful, well-reasoned retorts and not the sophomoric attacks on my credibility that many of you resorted to employing.

 

After all I am, to my knowledge, the only member of the Western New York media that is a "self-outed" dues paying member of this site. I am also the person who featured a story about TBD and the son of Third born in my best-selling book Buffalo Soul Lifters.

 

I mention this only because many members of the media lurk here and steal thoughts to fill columns and radio airtime. I'm here because, like all of you, I have a love of our football team and a deep respect for Scott and the other moderators of this site. At the very least I would like to think that those things should not afford me treatment akin to what a flamer from a Fins board might encounter.

 

Of course, as my wife always reminds me, I have a habit of overestimating people.

 

That said, let me exhibit how one goes about responding to an opposing viewpoint with class and dignity.

 

Firstly, in response to:

 

My take on your article is that you favor continuing to support a broken system. The 75% who disagree with you have probably had their fill and want change.

 

278899[/snapback]

 

I will not have an argument framed for me. I never said that I favored continued support of a broken system. I did state that I favored a temporary acceptance of the penny tax increase along with a commitment to serve notice that everyone responsible for this mess should start looking for private sector work come election time.

 

Second,

 

If I were you, I wouldn't own up to that dreck.

 

Come on, refusing ANOTHER penny's worth of sales taxes is going to result in sexual predators running rampant?

 

That's yellow journalism at its finest.

278954[/snapback]

 

I own up to all of my dreck and I take great umbrage at being accused of yellow journalism. As the 100,000 + regular readers of my column know, I am not one to engage in hyperbole. I have spoken off the record with many folks in Erie County politics, law enforcement and social services. Almost to a person they predict a year unlike any ever witnessed here. I'd be more than happy to stand up next January and eat crow, but instead I think that I'll be penning a column about a slew of unfortunate to tragic stories that needn't have ever happened.

 

Third,

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

****bends over, trying to catch breath****

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

*phew* thanks, I haven't had such a good belly laugh in a long time.

 

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs", eh comrade?

279064[/snapback]

I'm glad you can find humor in some aspect of this. I surely cannot. Playing the communism card? Wow, Need I remind you that the colors of the team that we love, just like the blood that runs through my veins, are red, white and blue?

 

Finally,

 

Well, if nothing else, he's brave.

280453[/snapback]

 

The service people in Iraq are brave, the firefighters on 9/11 were brave, the kids battling cancer at Children's Hospital are brave. I was just naive. I thrive on good discussion and spirited debate. I write for one of the most well-respected, and feared, small town newspapers in America. I've been blasted by rednecks and dittoheads. I've have fans and critics and once faced off against the great Steve Malzberg on MSNBC. I'll debate this issue with any of you but only on the condition that you afford me the respect that I hold out to each of you.

 

In the past week the county's bond rating was lowered to BBB, The Bills were asked to waive fees due them (don't think for a second that bells weren't going off in a certain Detroit office) and Charles Swanick was "caught" using the DMV in North Tonawanda.

I offer to you once again the thought that this action was ill-conceived and narrow-minded. The long-term damage to the quality Erie County's financial and social future will be severe.

 

As a final note I ask you to read this Buffalo News editorial penned by respected financial analyst James M. Hartman

News Editorial

In particular I draw your eyes to these quotes: "Well, congratulations to the cheerleaders of the "tax revolution." The guillotine is in full swing and heads are rolling. Sadly, we are now dismantling the basic service delivery capacity of county government. More disturbing, despite the bloodletting, Erie County is still headed for fiscal insolvency.

 

The public has been badly confused and misled. Engaging in babble does not solve a budget crisis."

 

"The citizens of Erie County now have a basic choice. We can acquiesce to the current path initiated by a minority group of misguided, inexperienced legislators. Alternatively, we can decide to restore some level of sanity and stability to our county. This latter choice will be difficult and it will require accepting the needed reality of a major tax increase. "

 

Hopefully, this sober look at what has transpired will help some of you to rethink your positions. Or will you accuse Mr. Hartman and the News of "yellow journalism" as well?

 

The ball's firmly back in your court Gentlemen. I eagerly await your shot selection.

[Alaska Darin]

Gladly.

 

The model is broken. The answer isn't going to be to continue by playing the same skipping record. Another penny may not seem like much but when the NYS sales tax was initially enacted I can virtually guarantee that not one person ever saw the day when it would approach one dollar for every ten spent. NOT ONE.

 

People have left the area in droves, most for the same reason. I'm sure you can find examples to the contrary, but that reason is opportunity or rather the lack of it. You are never going to revitalize the region by continuing to increase the size and cost of government and hiding behind the dreaded "we're going to lose cops/firemen/teachers/something that's important to you." That dog simply won't hunt any longer, even if it is just another penny.

 

The Boston Tea Party happened for a reason and was one of the significant precursors to the birth of this nation. The governments of NYS (ALL levels) are acting just as the Crown did in those days and it is long past the time to call them on the carpet. They have sold the very same bill of goods for too long and while you may be interested in continuing the spiral, others obviously are not.

 

As I said before, I sincerely hope you make a million dollars on your book. It is a noteworthy effort for all the right reasons. On this particular issue, you couldn't be more wrong. Instead of increasing taxes, WNY needs to increase the tax BASE. The next time a region taxes its way to prosperity will be the first time.

[Rubes]

The service people in Iraq are brave, the firefighters on 9/11 were brave, the kids battling cancer at Children's Hospital are brave. I was just naive.

 

In a sense, yes. It's apparent that you haven't spent much time on the PPP board, or else you probably would have recognized the tongue-in-cheek-ness of my comment. It really had nothing to do with your stance on the issue, but rather your coming to PPP to look specifically for "respectful, well-reasoned retorts".

 

I don't doubt that a lot of people here are generally capable of a good, spirited discussion of politics that doesn't descend into the ugly attacks and mockery like we see here. It seems that most have become so completely intolerant of arguments and positions that are either baseless or not generally well thought-out that even those arguments that simply contrast with their own (even those that are well thought-out) become, essentially, one and the same with those that are baseless and, as such, worthy of derision.

 

You may find a few here willing to provide a good argument and debate, but far more likely you'll just find a group whose objective is just to slap the ignoramuses back to their rightful place. That's why I knew, when I saw your original post, that you were basically just going to get ripped from one end to the other, and hence the bravery comment.

 

I always find myself fascinated by the WNY economy and its current situation, but I haven't lived there in decades and I'm not much of an economist to debate the topic, anyway. I still believe, like most here, that raising taxes (no matter how small) is not the solution for a place that is already taxed far too much and filled with what appears to an outsider as a gluttonous waste of local government.

 

Keep up the good fight, though. Always room for intelligent debate, regardless of what you see here...

[Terry Tate]

...Of course, as my wife always reminds me, I have a habit of overestimating people.

 

As the 100,000 + regular readers of my column know, I am not one to engage in hyperbole.

 

And from the article:

"Now imagine that you are a rapist or a pedophile. You're looking at a gift from the heavens... in the unlikely event that you are caught while in the act of destroying some innocent victim's life, the DA's office doesn't have the manpower to prosecute you properly... there will be a whole glut of sexual predators hanging out their shingles.

Perhaps you believe this is not hyperbole because your habit of overestimating people extends to rapists and pedophiles. Or, you could have some as yet unrevealed data of some sort to prove this claim.

 

Any example, at any level of government, at any time in history, in any location on earth of raising taxes having successfully fixed a corrupt, bloated, inefficient government would be very illustrative.

[Bishop Hedd]

Ouch!

 

I can't say that I didn't ask for your opinions, but I certainly expected respectful, well-reasoned retorts and not the sophomoric attacks on my credibility that many of you resorted to employing.

 

After all I am, to my knowledge, the only member of the Western New York media that is a "self-outed" dues paying member of this site. I am also the person who featured a story about TBD and the son of Third born in my best-selling book Buffalo Soul Lifters.

 

I mention this only because many members of the media lurk here and steal thoughts to fill columns and radio airtime. I'm here because, like all of you, I have a love of our football team and a deep respect for Scott and the other moderators of this site. At the very least I would like to think that those things should not afford me treatment akin to what a flamer from a Fins board might encounter.

 

Of course, as my wife always reminds me, I have a habit of overestimating people.

 

That said, let me exhibit how one goes about responding to an opposing viewpoint with class and dignity.

 

Firstly, in response to:

I will not have an argument framed for me. I never said that I favored continued support of a broken system. I did state that I favored a temporary acceptance of the penny tax increase along with a commitment to serve notice that everyone responsible for this mess should start looking for private sector work come election time.

 

Second,

I own up to all of my dreck and I take great umbrage at being accused of yellow journalism. As the 100,000 + regular readers of my column know, I am not one to engage in hyperbole. I have spoken off the record with many folks in Erie County politics, law enforcement and social services. Almost to a person they predict a year unlike any ever witnessed here. I'd be more than happy to stand up next January and eat crow, but instead I think that I'll be penning a column about a slew of unfortunate to tragic stories that needn't have ever happened.

 

Third,

I'm glad you can find humor in some aspect of this. I surely cannot. Playing the communism card? Wow, Need I remind you that the colors of the team that we love, just like the blood that runs through my veins, are red, white and blue?

 

Finally,

The service people in Iraq are brave, the firefighters on 9/11 were brave, the kids battling cancer at Children's Hospital are brave. I was just naive. I thrive on good discussion and spirited debate. I write for one of the most well-respected, and feared, small town newspapers in America. I've been blasted by rednecks and dittoheads. I've have fans and critics and once faced off against the great Steve Malzberg on MSNBC. I'll debate this issue with any of you but only on the condition that you afford me the respect that I hold out to each of you.

 

In the past week the county's bond rating was lowered to BBB, The Bills were asked to waive fees due them (don't think for a second that bells weren't going off in a certain Detroit office) and Charles Swanick was "caught" using the DMV in North Tonawanda.

I offer to you once again the thought that this action was ill-conceived and narrow-minded. The long-term damage to the quality Erie County's financial and social future will be severe.

 

As a final note I ask you to read this Buffalo News editorial penned by respected financial analyst James M. Hartman

News Editorial

In particular I draw your eyes to these quotes: "Well, congratulations to the cheerleaders of the "tax revolution." The guillotine is in full swing and heads are rolling. Sadly, we are now dismantling the basic service delivery capacity of county government. More disturbing, despite the bloodletting, Erie County is still headed for fiscal insolvency.

 

The public has been badly confused and misled. Engaging in babble does not solve a budget crisis."

 

"The citizens of Erie County now have a basic choice. We can acquiesce to the current path initiated by a minority group of misguided, inexperienced legislators. Alternatively, we can decide to restore some level of sanity and stability to our county. This latter choice will be difficult and it will require accepting the needed reality of a major tax increase. "

 

Hopefully, this sober look at what has transpired will help some of you to rethink your positions. Or will you accuse Mr. Hartman and the News of "yellow journalism" as well?

 

The ball's firmly back in your court Gentlemen. I eagerly await your shot selection.

282559[/snapback]

 

 

Hey Frank could you tell Staba to please deliver the paper to downtown Buffalo more than once a month. My watering hole still has the copy with the NF High Basketball team on it.

[gmac17]

No hyperbole??? Come on, at least own up to your hyperbole and be proud of it.

 

You say that pedophiles will be hanging out their shingles because there will be tall grass in vacant lots, and no sherrifs patrols?? um, ok. yup.

 

"How could anyone argue that there won't be anarchy in the streets?"

 

SAYING THERE WILL BE ANARCHY IN THE STREETS ISN'T HYPERBOLE????

[SilverNRed]

The next time a region taxes its way to prosperity will be the first time.

282569[/snapback]

You just can't say that enough.

[Alaska Darin]

You just can't say that enough.

283117[/snapback]

Apparently not.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

From Merriam Webster:

 

Main Entry: hy·per·bo·le

Pronunciation: hI-'p&r-b&-(")lE

Function: noun

Etymology: Latin, from Greek hyperbolE excess, hyperbole, hyperbola, from hyperballein to exceed, from hyper- + ballein to throw -- more at DEVIL

: extravagant exaggeration (as "mile-high ice-cream cones")

- hy·per·bo·list /-list/ noun

 

 

OK, now that we've got THAT out of the way:

 

"The budget cuts will force all snowplow jobs to go from two-man to one-man operations. What exactly did the second guy do anyway, you might ask. Oh, not much, just operated the side plowing blades in an area that will now be mostly blind to the driver on the one-man crew. How long will it be before there is a tragic accident involving a pedestrian in the plow's blind spot? I don't know, but I do know that the countdown already has begun"

 

Oh NO! We've cut the plow crews to one man! People will DIE!!

 

"Oh yeah, think things through a bit more. You know those vacant lots with absentee landlords that grow weeds to obscene heights in the dog days of summer? Every county park is going to look just like those unattended parcels of land. There will be no one to cut the grass. Now imagine that you are a rapist or a pedophile. You're looking at a gift from the heavens. Acres and acres of unsupervised land with towering grass and weeds perfectly suited to offer camouflage for your heinous crimes. Furthermore, you are aided and abetted by a nearly nonexistent sheriff's patrol and, in the unlikely event that you are caught while in the act of destroying some innocent victim's life, the DA's office doesn't have the manpower to prosecute you properly. Sad to say that, at a time when many businesses are leaving Erie County, there will be a whole glut of sexual predators hanging out their shingles."

 

HEAVEN HELP US! The grass won't get mowed and the SEXUAL PREDATORS WILL EAT OUR CHILDREN!!

 

"What will be the long-term effect on families that have had to deal with the stress and worry over whether mommy or daddy might find a pink slip in next week's pay envelope? I have a friend who is employed by the county in a highly respected, merit-based position. He has a wife and three kids, the youngest not even a year old. They've all been feeling the stress that comes with not knowing if life will continue in the comfort zone you've worked so hard to achieve or be catapulted into the unfamiliar terrain of job-hunting and public handouts."

 

Child: Mommy, why are we eating potatoes again?

Strained Mother: Why, it's because daddy doesn't know how to get a job.

 

" in wanting to execute overzealous governmental spending, the denizens of Erie County have put the gun to their own heads and pulled the trigger."

We're DOOOOOOOMED!!

 

No exaggeration and hyperbole there, huh?

[ChevyVanMiller]

Gladly.

 

The model is broken.  The answer isn't going to be to continue by playing the same skipping record.  Another penny may not seem like much but when the NYS sales tax was initially enacted I can virtually guarantee that not one person ever saw the day when it would approach one dollar for every ten spent.  NOT ONE. 

 

People have left the area in droves, most for the same reason.  I'm sure you can find examples to the contrary, but that reason is opportunity or rather the lack of it.  You are never going to revitalize the region by continuing to increase the size and cost of government and hiding behind the dreaded "we're going to lose cops/firemen/teachers/something that's important to you."  That dog simply won't hunt any longer, even if it is just another penny.

 

The Boston Tea Party happened for a reason and was one of the significant precursors to the birth of this nation.  The governments of NYS (ALL levels) are acting just as the Crown did in those days and it is long past the time to call them on the carpet.  They have sold the very same bill of goods for too long and while you may be interested in continuing the spiral, others obviously are not.

 

As I said before, I sincerely hope you make a million dollars on your book.  It is a noteworthy effort for all the right reasons.  On this particular issue, you couldn't be more wrong.  Instead of increasing taxes, WNY needs to increase the tax BASE.  The next time a region taxes its way to prosperity will be the first time.

282569[/snapback]

 

I knew that I could count on you Darin for an insightful reply. I've always appreciated your posts, your spirit shines through, even on this impersonal medium and it is one that I am sure is kindred. Someday I hope to be able to sit down with you over the beverage of your choice.

 

To respond to your thoughts, again I am not suggesting that things don't need fixing, I am saying that what has been done has made the hole to climb out of much, much deeper. So many people are cheering this, especially the expatriates, but who in their right mind would consider moving back to Erie County now.

 

Last night's news brought more wonderful images. Lines at the DMV that stretched around the block and the news that some clause in the union contract could mean laid-off parks workers being put to work in health care at ECMC.

 

Another issue that distresses me greatly is the harm that this is doing to the regionalism movement here. I am heavily involved in tourism in Niagara Falls and have worked alongside many people in the attempt to sell the region as a whole to visitors. Many people in the Falls have been weary of this concept. They feel that Niagara Falls needs to be proprietary towards its tourists. Just when things seemed to be moving in the right direction comes word that the Erie County libraries will begin charging Niagara County residents a membership fee. The same with Erie County Golf Courses. I've already heard from many readers who feel that this is a slap in the face. Some have even suggested a "counter" move of charging Erie County residents a fee to use Niagara County DMV offices and parks.

 

None of this is productive. The last thing we need is for WNY counties to begin circling the wagons on each other.

 

Frankly, I can't see this mess going on for too long without a major tax increase - be it sales or property - being leveled on Erie County residents. If the bond rating slips again Erie County may find itself in a hole too deep to climb out of.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Frankly, I can't see this mess going on for too long without a major tax increase - be it sales or property - being leveled on Erie County residents. If the bond rating slips again Erie County may find itself in a hole too deep to climb out of.

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See, this is exactly what the crooks want. They cut services that are visible first in order to put the squeeze on taxpayers. Here's to hoping the citizenry doesn't blink and that these thieves are ran out of town on a rail.

[nobody]

See, this is exactly what the crooks want. They cut services that are visible first in order to put the squeeze on taxpayers. Here's to hoping the citizenry doesn't blink and that these thieves are ran out of town on a rail.

284240[/snapback]

 

 

For next year's budget I hope the county refuses to pay their medicaid bill.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

For next year's budget I hope the county refuses to pay their medicaid bill.

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Personally, I think the county sherriff's office is a waste. here in PA, if you're not covered by a municipal PD, you have the Staties for protection. Do the same in Erie county. and you'll save a HUGE chunk of change.

 

The Erie SD is a bunch of cowboys anyway.

[nobody]

Personally, I think the county sherriff's office is a waste. here in PA, if you're not covered by a municipal PD, you have the Staties for protection. Do the same in Erie county. and you'll save a HUGE chunk of change.

 

The Erie SD is a bunch of cowboys anyway.

284504[/snapback]

 

 

I think I recall hearing the state troopers refusing to increase patrols or the number of troopers they station in EC.

[BillsNYC]

Go on over to Free Buffalo and see what they think:

 

http://forum.freebuffalo.org/dcboard.php?a...opics&forum=121

[ChevyVanMiller]

Hey Frank could you tell Staba to please deliver the paper to downtown Buffalo more than once a month. My watering hole still has the copy with the NF High Basketball team on it.

282614[/snapback]

 

Will do.

[Bishop Hedd]

Will do.

284794[/snapback]

 

 

And there they were when I walked in Tuesday. I guess Dave must read this board. I'll have to buy him a Stoli Tea next time I see him.

 

It's hard getting decent local news and views here as you know what with the local dailys the News (Warren Buffet), or the Gazette (Alabama). Your paper is much needed in these parts.