Lacanfora: Bills have reached out to Raiders about Khalil Mack trade

[BullBuchanan]

49 minutes ago, musichunch said:

 

Your opinion. 

Well, what exactly is this place?

[Yav]

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

Please don't compare Bennett who was a rookie and this guy who is 27,  no more then (2) 2nds and 3rd or 4th rounder.  Give me one good reason why we only received a second for Sammy who was only 23 and this guy some fans want to give up multiple 1st rounders.  

 

Let me accept Jerry and 3 picks  (2) 2nd rounders and a 3rd or forget it,  at his size he will wear down in the next 3-4 years.  Coming off a bad year,  just like Sammy and we only goy a 2 rounder

Sammy had horrible production for his draft position and was constantly injured and didn't make the pro-bowl. 

 

How can you compare Sammy and Mack is the question. 

[purple haze]

9 hours ago, scribo said:

That is rough. How does a team in such a situation expect to be competitive? 

See the move to Las Vegas and the shiny new stadium. The NFL business paradigm shifted long ago and many of the old guard owners were affected.  Art Modell and Bud Adams moved.  Spanos moved.  

 

He takes his share of heat, and understandably so, but end of day, Mr. Wilson was a true friend to Buffalo, NY.

Edited August 24, 2018 by purple haze

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, njbuff said:

Raiders have very little leverage in this.

 

The longer Mack doesn't show up, the more the Raiders will get pennies on the dollar for Mack.

 

The Bills don't have to rush into this thing and give up the bank for Mack.

 

I bet a team can wait till the deadline and give up, maybe, a third round pick for him. The Raiders at the deadline know that Mack isn't re-signing there, so the Raiders have nothing.

 

Unless the value is a third round pick right now, the Bills can wait this thing out.

 

I don't think there is a team foolish enough to give up anything of significance knowing they can pursue Mack as a FA in 2019.

 

Couldn't the Raiders just franchise Mack? They have him under control (2 franchise tags plus his current year under contract) until 2020. They aren't going to be in a down to the wire trade him or lose him for nothing situation. Some team will at least offer a 1st plus a 4th for Mack. I can't see the Packers turning down Mack if the cost is the Saints first rounder and their 4th round pick. 

[purple haze]

9 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

 

 

Look at the spurs with Leonard.

He said publicly he wants to sign with only in la

So they traded him to Toronto because Toronto went full in and gave them a huge package for him

Will he sign? Who knows? Toronto too a risk but only gave up about 70% of what he's worth.

Same thing happened last year in the NBA with Paul George.

Said he wanted to go to LA Lakers only, and wanted to sign with them as a FA, so Indiana traded him for 60 cents on the dollar to OKC, and he wound up loving it there and staying.

 

So who knows, somebody might pony up for Mack even without a commitment, but just teams won't go full price for that, so it just means the raiders will have to take below market value to get it done.

NBA operates differently than the NFL.  The NFL is more set in its ways.  I doubt a team would trade for a player in that way outside of a QB.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, billsfan89 said:

 

Couldn't the Raiders just franchise Mack? They have him under control (2 franchise tags plus his current year under contract) until 2020. They aren't going to be in a down to the wire trade him or lose him for nothing situation. Some team will at least offer a 1st plus a 4th for Mack. I can't see the Packers turning down Mack if the cost is the Saints first rounder and their 4th round pick. 

 

...sure can......odd thing is how quiet GM McKenzie has been......probably reports to Chuckie now......

[That's No Moon]

9 minutes ago, purple haze said:

See the move to Las Vegas and the shiny new stadium. The NFL business paradigm shifted long ago and many of the old guard owners were affected.  Art Modell and Bud Adams moved.  Spanos moved.  

 

He takes his share of heat, and understandably so, but end of day, Mr. Wilson was a true friend to Buffalo, NY.

That's right, he only THREATENED to move.

[Nihilarian]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Couldn't the Raiders just franchise Mack? They have him under control (2 franchise tags plus his current year under contract) until 2020. They aren't going to be in a down to the wire trade him or lose him for nothing situation. Some team will at least offer a 1st plus a 4th for Mack. I can't see the Packers turning down Mack if the cost is the Saints first rounder and their 4th round pick. 

They can't afford him and Raider fans want Davis to sell the team from what I read.

 

[RochesterRob]

6 minutes ago, purple haze said:

See the move to Las Vegas and the shiny new stadium. The NFL business paradigm shifted long ago and many of the old guard owners were affected.  Art Modell and Bud Adams moved.  Spanos moved.  

 

He takes his share of heat, and understandably so, but end of day, Mr. Wilson was a true friend to Buffalo, NY.

  In my mind Modell and Adams makes me think that there is a parallel to WNY.  Cleveland was a wasteland economically back during the late 1980's and Modell was done wrong by various politicians on the city, county, and state level.  Both the Indians and Browns needed new homes plus I get most fans don't like dual purpose stadiums along with the reasons why but that is what Cleveland should have done.  Modell might have a entirely different legacy if the cards had fallen differently.  The oil economy tanked during the 1980's ;leaving less government revenue to fund a new stadium for the Oiler's.  Had the economy gone differently it is very probable Houston would have had a new facility during the 1990's and the Oiler's would have remained in Houston.  By the way I miss saying Houston Oiler's.  The WNY economy is far from robust and the politicians are far from in synch on a new stadium for the Bills.  The point is Modell and Adams both gave their old cities a fair chance by most measures but could not bridge the gap.

[billsfan89]

9 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...sure can......odd thing is how quiet GM McKenzie has been......probably reports to Chuckie now......

 

I think if the Raiders are holding out for something more than a 1st and a mid round pick or two and it doesn't come they would just let Mack holdout the rest of the season and franchise him in 2019 and trade him once teams know their draft positions. I am sure a contending team would definitely trade a pick from 20-32 plus some other picks for him on a franchise tag. So this notion that the Bills are going to come in and get him on the cheap for a 2nd or 3rd round pick "Because its better than nothing" is just wishful thinking. The Raiders can definitely pull a late 1st from him on a franchise tag. 

 

7 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

They can't afford him and Raider fans want Davis to sell the team from what I read.

 

 

The issue from what I have read isn't that they can't afford him. Davis just handed Gruden 10 million a year. If they were pinching pennies they wouldn't have done that. The issue is more so that Gruden doesn't want to give into a player holding out and thinks that the Raiders defense would be bad with or without him. Also if they were pinching pennies they still could franchise him and trade him since they don't start to pay out most of the money on a franchise tag until training camp and the regular season (Although it is fully guaranteed.) 

Edited August 24, 2018 by billsfan89

[Beast]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Please indeed. Your condescending tone aside, I'm aware of the changes the league has undergone in the 31 years since we acquired Bennett. 

 

What, PRECISELY, is the value difference between a 27 year old All Pro at the second most critical position vs. that of a future draft pick? 

 

When you can quantify that value and answer that with certainty perhaps I'll change my position that the trade dynamics surrounding the acquisition of a premier player in his prime at the second most critical position have changed for teams whose salary cap situation doesn't prohibit such an acquisition for the next several seasons. 

 

 

 

I don’t need to quantify the obvious.

 

When the Raiders trade him you come back here and tell us what you think.

[purple haze]

8 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

That's right, he only THREATENED to move.

He didn't though.  And he could have at different times.

[That's No Moon]

6 minutes ago, purple haze said:

He didn't though.  And he could have at different times.

He didn't because taxpayers kept making it worth his while to stay.  Let's not pretend it was benevolence.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I think if the Raiders are holding out for something more than a 1st and a mid round pick or two and it doesn't come they would just let Mack holdout the rest of the season and franchise him in 2019 and trade him once teams know their draft positions. I am sure a contending team would definitely trade a pick from 20-32 plus some other picks for him on a franchise tag. So this notion that the Bills are going to come in and get him on the cheap for a 2nd or 3rd round pick "Because its better than nothing" is just wishful thinking. The Raiders can definitely pull a late 1st from him on a franchise tag. 

 

......a "steal" isn't happening......sooner or later Reggie is chirping in Davis' ear about the whole thing........they don't have cap room now to restructure and I don't know their 2019 situation......now here's an interesting twist to the saga.....maybe Dopey Davis wants Reggie to resign......there have been rumors about Bruce Allen reuniting with Chuckie in Oakland, like their TB days......I know Brandon had a call into the Deadskins' Boy Danny Snyder about an opening if that was to happen.....wow..........

[Trogdor]

11 hours ago, thurst44 said:

Wait, are you really calling Tremaine Edmunds a failed pick after two pre-season games (which weren't even as bad as people here are suggesting)?! Matt Milano is a 5th rounder who after a season is looking very good. A.J. Tarpley was an undrafted free agent. Shaq Lawson and Adolphus Washington have a bit more logic to them, but the book has hardly been completely closed on them yet (Lawson has played bits of two seasons).

 

I'm very much pro trading for Mack and the thought that trading a 1st even if you think it's a top ten (which i doubt) is not worth it is insane as with a top ten pick you hope that guy will become close to as good as a Khalil Mack in a few years. Mack could make this one of the top Ds in the league, if not the top. However, by stretching for too many names, you dilute your point (and the piling on 20-year-old Edmunds before he has played one meaningful game is getting tiresome and really needs to stop).

Plus Ragland and Bradham are contributing well on other teams. Pos had a solid long career, he just couldn't get past the LOS for a tackle lol. We honestly could use someone like him with solid tackling technique. 

[K-9]

16 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

I don’t need to quantify the obvious.

 

When the Raiders trade him you come back here and tell us what you think.

Right. Can't quantify the obvious.

[napmaster]

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

Coming off a bad year,  just like Sammy and we only goy a 2 rounder

 

We got a 2nd rounder and a starting CB (Gaines) for Watkins.  Unless players are included, the Raiders would get a 1st at a minimum.

[billsfan89]

11 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

......a "steal" isn't happening......sooner or later Reggie is chirping in Davis' ear about the whole thing........they don't have cap room now to restructure and I don't know their 2019 situation......now here's an interesting twist to the saga.....maybe Dopey Davis wants Reggie to resign......there have been rumors about Bruce Allen reuniting with Chuckie in Oakland, like their TB days......I know Brandon had a call into the Deadskins' Boy Danny Snyder about an opening if that was to happen.....wow..........

 

The Raiders are right up against the cap in 2018. But their 2019 situation is pretty good. They have 45 million in space but they also have about 5-6 contracts they could cut to free up 35-45 million more in cap space while not taking much dead money (Jordy Nelson and Bruce Irvin alone would free up 16 million in space while not having any dead cap.) So in terms of 2019 that shouldn't be an issue. But I do not know if their lack of cap space in 2018 is presenting any problems. 

 

I honestly doubt it is the cap since if teams want to they can always find a way around the cap. I think it is more Gruden's old school mindset of wanting to set their standard of not tolerating holdouts. I think this will end with a trade to the Packers. They will give the Raiders the Saints 1st plus their own 4th in 2019 along with a conditional 4th that could be a 3rd. That's not a bad return as the Raiders set up a nice 2019 draft and have a ton of cap space. But they really should have realized how special Mack is and given him a contract. 

[PIZ]

3 minutes ago, napmaster said:

 

We got a 2nd rounder and a starting CB (Gaines) for Watkins.  Unless players are included, the Raiders would get a 1st at a minimum.

 

Does it matter that Sammy Watkins was 3 years younger when he was traded than Mack is right now?

 

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

You make some good points, but Sammy is a full three years younger than Mack.  That makes a difference.  Sure Mack could be highly productive into his 30s, but he’s on the small side for an edge rusher and might not be nearly as effective if he loses a step. Mack might turn out to be dominant for years to come, but these are things a team will think about before committing $60 million guaranteed to a player, not mention giving up premium draft picks.  I say Mack can be had in exchange for one first round pick.

Then stand him up and make him a LB where he was already an all pro