mannc Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Teams Value cheap rookie contracts much more than they did in 1988. Mack's value is also diminished by the fact that you would be paying him a large 20 million dollar or more per year contract with a hefty guarantee. Even in the context of the Bennett trade, you were trading 3 future picks for a rookie. Mack is 27 years old and about to get paid. The Bills didn't even trade up for Bennett they drafted Shane Conlan at pick 8 then traded those 3 future selections plus Greg Bell a running back of value to get the number 2 pick outright. The Bills got the number 2 overall pick for 2 future firsts, a second rounder and a decent running back. Whereas with Mack they would be trading for a player who is older and taking up a lot of cap space.1st round picks are even more valuable now because it can lock in a player for 5 years fairly affordably. Teams are certainly willing to part with 1 first round pick and cap space for a premium player that isn't a QB but 2 first round picks and a 2nd is insane esp given the cap considerations. Yes Mack is more proven than Bennett was but Bennett once again was younger and there was the same cap considerations. It would just be insane to give up those picks for anything other than a QB or a player with multiple years left on a rookie deal. You are correct, and the proof will be in the pudding: No team will give up two first round picks for Mack. The Raiders will be lucky to get one.
lookylookyherecomescookie Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: Um, yes he is. I don't get the Mario hate either. He was badly misused when Rex came to town but before that he was a very good player. Elite pass rushers change the entire defense. and apparently also misused by the Dolphin coaches on his next stop after here
OrtonHearsaWho Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said: and apparently also misused by the Dolphin coaches on his next stop after here Actually yes - that entire D was a joke. So many posters love to talk about how great our D was under Schwartz but will also say that Mario was a bum (I'm not saying that's you)...perhaps our D was very good because...I don't know...we had a great pass rusher?
njbuff Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 (edited) Raiders have very little leverage in this. The longer Mack doesn't show up, the more the Raiders will get pennies on the dollar for Mack. The Bills don't have to rush into this thing and give up the bank for Mack. I bet a team can wait till the deadline and give up, maybe, a third round pick for him. The Raiders at the deadline know that Mack isn't re-signing there, so the Raiders have nothing. Unless the value is a third round pick right now, the Bills can wait this thing out. I don't think there is a team foolish enough to give up anything of significance knowing they can pursue Mack as a FA in 2019. Edited August 24, 2018 by njbuff 1
lookylookyherecomescookie Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: Actually yes - that entire D was a joke. So many posters love to talk about how great our D was under Schwartz but will also say that Mario was a bum (I'm not saying that's you)...perhaps our D was very good because...I don't know...we had a great pass rusher? You're right, I'm not saying he was a bum. I'm just concerned with the possibility of a player losing some of his fire after earning generational wealth.
ddaryl Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 14 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: Um, yes he is. I don't get the Mario hate either. He was badly misused when Rex came to town but before that he was a very good player. Elite pass rushers change the entire defense. No doubt, just look at Hughes 1st seasons with Buffalo. Easily his best years with us and that was because Mario was commanding double teams on the opposite side.
Nihilarian Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said: and apparently also misused by the Dolphin coaches on his next stop after here Those Dolphin dodos also didn't really know how to utilize Wake or Suh either... Rex did ruin him by asking him to play in his outdated, screwed up scheme. A premier pass rusher being asked to drop into pass coverage wasn't moronic enough so it was simply abusive to have him taking on a 300lb plus offensive tackle so the craptastic Bills linebackers could attempt to make a play.
OrtonHearsaWho Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said: You're right, I'm not saying he was a bum. I'm just concerned with the possibility of a player losing some of his fire after earning generational wealth. That's always a concern. Heck, that's a concern for players on rookie contracts since generational wealth can be subjective. The fact that Beane and McDermott have been pretty solid with personnel leaves me optimistic. At worst, I think Mack is the second best D-lineman in the game and it's worth the gamble.
KD in CA Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 31 minutes ago, Heitz said: Man, did this guy sign here yet, or what!? ?? Amazing how a guy everyone here worshipped suddenly turns to dog**** even at the vague suggestion he might possibly come to Buffalo. 1
ndirish1978 Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, HappyDays said: Yes. Top 5 picks have like a 20% chance of becoming DPOY candidates. Mack has already been the DPOY and is a candidate to win it again every year. I value draft picks as much as anyone on here, but the reason you hold onto draft picks is to save cap space for players like Mack when they become available. If we have a chance to get a generational player on our team at a position of need, why give that up for a lottery ticket? Look at the DEs drafted in the 1st rd in the past 4 years. Which ones would you take over Mack? Arik Armstead (17 - 2015) Shane Ray (23 - 2015) Joey Bosa (3-2016) DeForest Buckner (7 - 2016) Shaq Lawson (16 - 2016) Myles Garrett (1 - 2017) Derek Barnett (14 - 2017) Charles Harris (22 -2017) Taco Charlton (28 -2017) Bradley Chubb (5 - 2018) Marcus Davenport (14 - 2018) The only 2 I would put in the conversation with Mack are Bosa and maybe Garrett and they were both top 3 picks. If we put together a typical Billsy season and win 6-9 games we'd be picking closer to the Shaw Lawson Derek Barnett range, I would take Mack over every guy picked in that range in the past couple of years. Edited August 24, 2018 by ndirish1978 2 1
RPbillsfan Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said: Look at the DEs drafted in the 1st rd in the past 4 years. Which ones would take over Mack? Arik Armstead (17 - 2015) Shane Ray (23 - 2015) Joey Bosa (3-2016) DeForest Buckner (7 - 2016) Shaq Lawson (16 - 2016) Myles Garrett (1 - 2017) Derek Barnett (14 - 2017) Charles Harris (22 -2017) Taco Charlton (28 -2017) Bradley Chubb (5 - 2018) Marcus Davenport (14 - 2018) The only 2 I would put in the conversation with Mack are Bona and maybe Garrett and they were both top 3 picks. If we put together a typical Billsy season and win 6-9 games we'd be picking closer to the Shaw Lawson Derek Barnett range, I would take Mack over every guy picked in that range in the past couple of years. Great list and shows why the Bills should absolutely offer the 2019 first round pick and Lawson and see what the Raiders say. This represents a great opportunity for Buffalo to make a huge stride defensively and improve this year without sacrificing any part of our future that is not replaceable with our remaining picks and free agent cap space next year.
Beast Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 1 hour ago, K-9 said: Other than the salary cap, what is different today than 1987 when it comes to acquiring such a player? If anything, pressuring the opposing QB is even more important than it was back then given the proliferation of passing offenses. And if a team has a ton of projected cap room for the next several seasons, the cap constraint issue is negligible. I'm curious to see just how silly I turn out to be given the number of teams that will be involved in the bidding process to acquire Mack. Please. If you haven’t been watching the NFL for the past 31years, I don’t know what to tell you. Here’s a hint.....first round picks are MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more valuable than they were when there wasn’t a rookie pay scale. There’s a starter for you.
The Red King Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 We play Brady twice a season...tell me again how well we've done without a decent pass rush this whole time? 1
K-9 Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Please. If you haven’t been watching the NFL for the past 31years, I don’t know what to tell you. Here’s a hint.....first round picks are MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more valuable than they were when there wasn’t a rookie pay scale. There’s a starter for you. Please indeed. Your condescending tone aside, I'm aware of the changes the league has undergone in the 31 years since we acquired Bennett. What, PRECISELY, is the value difference between a 27 year old All Pro at the second most critical position vs. that of a future draft pick? When you can quantify that value and answer that with certainty perhaps I'll change my position that the trade dynamics surrounding the acquisition of a premier player in his prime at the second most critical position have changed for teams whose salary cap situation doesn't prohibit such an acquisition for the next several seasons.
HappyDays Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said: Mack is also coming off a disappointing season. I'm worried he may have already played his best ball, and may be a very good, but not top tier elite player on his second contact. Eh he's the only player on that Raiders defense, teams are game planning for him and they don't have anyone else to worry about. No defensive player can do it all on their own.
Chandler#81 Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2018/08/buffalo_bills_have_done_due_diligence_on_khalil_mack_report.html
Andrew Son Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Red King said: We play Brady twice a season...tell me again how well we've done without a decent pass rush this whole time? About the same as when we did have a decent pass rush. 1
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Eh he's the only player on that Raiders defense, teams are game planning for him and they don't have anyone else to worry about. No defensive player can do it all on their own. Khalil Mack is THE WHIP... FACT! Edited August 24, 2018 by Cotton Fitzsimmons
CEN-CAL17 Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 Mack wants Aaron Donald $$$, Aaron Donald wants Mack $$$... Either will surpass Von Miller, but both are waiting to see. Not saying that’s 100% the reason, but that is a big part of the reason.
AIRIKSMIND Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 (edited) This team is just beginning to start a culture and system (similar to that $&@! Boston franchise ) that will soon have the ability to “plug and play” role players without selling the farm. I think McDermott is most likely foaming at the mouth at the possibility of acquiring Mack....but the process will not allow the expense. I don’t think this is being cheap...I think it’s being wise and patient. Players will want to come here...Mack has said so himself. Make an offer...make it reasonable...and don’t beg or sell the farm. Good times are just around the corner. thanks for allowing me to lurk here for 10 years...lol...!! Edited August 24, 2018 by AIRIKSMIND Spelling error
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