BillsBytheBay Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 16 hours ago, Wagon Circler said: I heard it today on NFL network and just now from Joe Buck. "He played under two defensive minded coaches and never had an opportunity to cut it loose." OMG! This is Cleveland propaganda. Always amazing to me how little the national media knows. I like Tyrod. I always have but he is what he is. Buck is nuts to think otherwise. If they play great D, and have playmakers around him he will be more than decent. But that's all. Good not great. He's not about to turn some corner and become a great pocket passer.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: The only game in his career? TT had 3 games in 4 with a QB rating of under 45. Thats is why we got the debacle that was the Chargers game!!!! you could at least try to be honest! The point was that using 1 game as a sample size is moronic. Let's look at the 2015 game against Houston, a solid defense. He passed for 3 TDs and just over 10 YPA and also ran for another TD. He's clearly a hall of famer, right? /s
26CornerBlitz Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said: The point was that using 1 game as a sample size is moronic. Let's look at the 2015 game against Houston, a solid defense. He passed for 3 TDs and just over 10 YPA and also ran for another TD. He's clearly a hall of famer, right? /s Save your keystrokes.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 1 hour ago, MJS said: The national media does. Negative, they think he is an improvement on what the Browns have had - a functional NFL QB who might be better than he's showed to date with the right coaching and pieces around him. And they could be right, though in my view it remainst TBD whether or not Hue J. and Haley constitute the right coaching and the Browns roster "right pieces"
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Save your keystrokes. It's funny, because if Tyrod was half as bad as some want to make him out to be they wouldn't need to use tiny sample sizes or misrepresentations of the stats that encompass his production as a starter. When compared to the field over the same time-span the majority of his stats are definitively average with a few being elite and some being near the bottom of starters. 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 22 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: He is what I said he is. Not good enough of a passing QB to be a long term starter if there’s another option. And that's fair
LABILLBACKER Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 The new narrative on the word narrative is that it's over used. TaRod will always be that safe scrambling 92 qbr guy. He'll never win you a game when trailing early in the 4th quarter.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 11 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: The point was that using 1 game as a sample size is moronic. Let's look at the 2015 game against Houston, a solid defense. He passed for 3 TDs and just over 10 YPA and also ran for another TD. He's clearly a hall of famer, right? /s One game is not a proper sample size? Did I read that right? wait are we talking about TT or NP? LOL Two great games out of 16 is also a small sample size. The narrative was written and cast in stone after TT’s first season as a starter. 1
Teddy KGB Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Save your keystrokes. Giants Bills 2015 Patriots Bills 2015 Redskins Bills 2015 Bills Ravens 2016 Woooooof Bills Fins 2016 Pats Bills 2016 Bills Bengals 2016 Bills Raiders 2016 Bills Steelers 2016 Bills Panthers 2017 Bills Bengals 2017 Bills Pats 2017 Bills Pats 2017 Bills Saints 2017 Bills Jags 2017 One game huh ? Try to stay off the fake news. Edited August 24, 2018 by Teddy KGB 1
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 Just now, ShadyBillsFan said: One game is not a proper sample size? Did I read that right? wait are we talking about TT or NP? LOL Wow, you're comprehension is as impeccable as ever! NP's entire career is 52 pass attempts. That's the entire sample! Tyrod's is 1,236. He had 18 attempts in the Saints game. That's 1.5% of his career. Using that as the sample is being willfully ignorant. It's literally a smaller sample of his career than trying to use a single pass attempt from Peterman.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 12 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: It's funny, because if Tyrod was half as bad as some want to make him out to be they wouldn't need to use tiny sample sizes or misrepresentations of the stats that encompass his production as a starter. When compared to the field over the same time-span the majority of his stats are definitively average with a few being elite and some being near the bottom of starters. He remains a middling QB who can only get a team so far if he's supported by a strong run game and defense. You definitely want better than he offers while you can certainly do worse.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 14 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: The only game in his career? TT had 3 games in 4 with a QB rating of under 45. Thats is why we got the debacle that was the Chargers game!!!! you could at least try to be honest! What do you mean by "QB rating"? Are you talking "QBR" or "total QB rating" from ESPN? Passer rating (sometimes called QB rating)? What? If you're going to talk about honesty, let's be straight what you're talking about, because as written, it doesn't seem very...honest. Tyrod was 10th in the league for total QBR in 2015 and 2016, 65.3 and 61.4; 13th in 2017 at 56.4. I don't like QBR, and it's not shown in his game logs on PFR or NFL, but I don't think it's mathematically possible for him to have 3 games in 4 with a QB rating under 45 and have those averages, which show him to be...an average NFL QB. For passer rating, which is sometimes called "QB rating", Tyrod was 8th, 18th, and 16th from 2015-2017, with 99.4, 89.7, and 89.2. Again, not mathematically possible for him to have 3 games in 4 with a QB rating under 45 and have those average, which show him to be...an average NFL QB. He has had 2 games he started with a rating under 45 Footballifact Honesty Assessment as it stands gives you a rating of "Pants On Fire", but I'll grant you could mean something different and explain yourself. 2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: He remains a middling QB who can only get a team so far if he's supported by a strong run game and defense. You definitely want better than he offers while you can certainly do worse. Exactly 1
Batman1876 Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 Over three years he had 7.2 YPA, 201 YPG and those numbers got worse each season during his tenure. Over that time we were the 28th, 30th and 31st ranked passing attack. I like Tyrod but its not hard to see why we moved on. It is hard to build a winning team in today's NFL when you are a bad passing offense. Tyrod is too safe to be awful but he is also too safe to win you games.
MJS Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: It's funny, because if Tyrod was half as bad as some want to make him out to be they wouldn't need to use tiny sample sizes or misrepresentations of the stats that encompass his production as a starter. When compared to the field over the same time-span the majority of his stats are definitively average with a few being elite and some being near the bottom of starters. Yards and TD's. Those are basic, fundamental stats that show Taylor is one of the worst PASSING QB's in the league. Interceptions is another fundamental stat, and Taylor does indeed do well with that one.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: Giants Bills 2015 Patriots Bills 2015 Redskins Bills 2015 Bills Ravens 2016 Woooooof Bills Fins 2016 Pats Bills 2016 Bills Bengals 2016 Bills Raiders 2016 Bills Steelers 2016 Bills Panthers 2017 Bills Bengals 2017 Bills Pats 2017 Bills Pats 2017 Bills Saints 2017 Bills Jags 2017 Only one game ??♂️ 62.6% Completions (20th), 201.3 YPG (31st), 7.17 YPA (T-19th), 1.5 TD/G (25th), 3.25 TD/TO (2nd), 92.5 Passer Rating (15th), 6.25 ANY/A (18th), 73.1 in my rating (19th) Compared with his peers over the entire 3 years, good, bad, and ugly. 1 minute ago, MJS said: Yards and TD's. Those are basic, fundamental stats that show Taylor is one of the worst PASSING QB's in the league. Interceptions is another fundamental stat, and Taylor does indeed do well with that one. If you knew half the stats I have tracked over the entire 3 years you would understand I'm not just cherry-picking.
MJS Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: 62.6% Completions (20th), 201.3 YPG (31st), 7.17 YPA (T-19th), 1.5 TD/G (25th), 3.25 TD/TO (2nd), 92.5 Passer Rating (15th), 6.25 ANY/A (18th), 73.1 in my rating (19th) Compared with his peers over the entire 3 years, good, bad, and ugly. If you knew half the stats I have tracked over the entire 3 years you would understand I'm not just cherry-picking. I never accused you of cherry picking. People can get into all kinds of crazy stats if they want, but none of them are as important as 1) Passing Yards 2) Passing TD's, and 3) Interceptions. Tyrod is terrible at the first two and good at the last one.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 Just now, MJS said: I never accused you of cherry picking. People can get into all kinds of crazy stats if they want, but none of them are as important as 1) Passing Yards 2) Passing TD's, and 3) Interceptions. Tyrod is terrible at the first two and good at the last one. Yards are a function of attempts, and have a slightly negative correlation with wins. FWIW.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: Giants Bills 2015 Patriots Bills 2015 Redskins Bills 2015 Bills Ravens 2016 Woooooof Bills Fins 2016 Pats Bills 2016 Bills Bengals 2016 Bills Raiders 2016 Bills Steelers 2016 Bills Panthers 2017 Bills Bengals 2017 Bills Pats 2017 Bills Pats 2017 Bills Saints 2017 Bills Jags 2017 One game huh ? Try to stay off the fake news. "Fake news", hmmmmmmm. Doesn't that mean "something that's actually verifyably true, but which someone with an agenda claims is fake?" Even if we take it at face value that all 15 of those games were suckage laid on Tyrod's plate, he started or played significant time in 45 career games. So the games you list would constitute 1/3 of his career. For "true news", try looking at the whole career. Towards which I provided data elsewhere, and which 26CB summarized rather aptly in 1-2 sentences: we want better, but a football team could do worse.
BillsInWilmingtonNC Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 1 hour ago, ngbills said: Really? Watch this. Not pretty. And FYI Tyrod's numbers look about the same as Tom Brady this preseason for whatever that means. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000950437/Every-Baker-Mayfield-touch-Preseason-Week-3 http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000950445/Every-Tyrod-Taylor-touch-Preseason-Week-3 I've seen all of these throws. And while I have never been on the Mayfield train, I still think he gives you more than Tyrod. Cleveland has to answer the question of whether they want to go with the rookie that will give you wow moments (Such as I think the 2nd or 3rd throw on that video of Baker) while also giving you some rookie moments (Of which there were plenty of on that video), or going with Tyrod who will scramble around and look exciting at times, but more often than not just throws short dump offs to his RB while protecting the ball. And all of this is in reference to the OP's topic of whether it is the guy calling the plays or the person executing. That is the only reason I am using preseason to compare Mayfield to Tyrod..... Both have the same person calling in the plays on the sideline.... Although I do realize that one is going against 1st stringers and one is going against 2nd and 3rd stringers.. I don't think comparing preseason stats of players from different teams (Brady vs. Tyrod) is useful in most situations as different teams have different objectives during preseason. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 24, 2018 Posted August 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, MJS said: I never accused you of cherry picking. People can get into all kinds of crazy stats if they want, but none of them are as important as 1) Passing Yards 2) Passing TD's, and 3) Interceptions. Tyrod is terrible at the first two and good at the last one. Passing yards actually are not well-correlated or predictive of wins. There is a slight negative correlation between passing yards and winning (eg more passing yards = slightly more likely team loses). While points scored are certainly important, I haven't encountered a particular bias towards passing TDs. TDs scored matter, sure. So I can't quite agree with you that no other stats are as important as those 3. 1
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