NEW NARRATIVE ON TYROD

[dave mcbride]

9 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Literally no one is saying that. In no way, shape, or form is TT the worst ever to play the game. 

 

He's just not nearly as good as the media wants to make him out to be and not really in the top 30 at the position currently in the league. 

 

Where the pushback comes from is the very real attempt to push a narrative that says "only racists think Tyrod should have been replaced". I resent and take personal offense at this notion that all Bills fans are practically klansmen because we were ok with them moving on from a QB who led the NFL's worst passing offense for 3 years and just happened to be black. 

 

 

 

 

On what planet were the Bills the worst passing offense in the league the last three seasons? And please don’t say it’s all about the yardage. That on its own is a horrible metric to judge a passing game by.

 

Also, saying that Taylor, a bona fide league average qb, isn’t in the top 30 makes me really question your judgment.

[87168]

31 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Tyrod playing the race card was sad.  Got an eye-roll out of me, nothing more.

 

Racism tends to be easy to spot.  I have a relative that's racist and hated Tyrod from the start.  Was plain to see though, all the comments were about black QBs never amounting to anything (ignoring players like Warren Moon), rather then any comment about his actual performance.

 

The members here who make actual arguments against Tyrod, listing things such as his habit of checking down to quickly, or running a terrible two-minute drill are likely not racist.  They simply don't like the performance they see, and would say the same if the QB had white, yellow, red or plaid skin.

 

Racism is awful and sadly still exists in the world.  But there seems to be a large spike in the number of racism claims made, with less and less evidence to support them.  That only makes matters worse.  Every comment like Tyrod's makes it harder for people to take legitimate claims seriously.

please. spoken like someone who's yet to peep over the fence.

 

and TT's claim was legit, but again, why try to understand when you can get angry?

 

I'm glad TT is in Cleveland. not because I dislik him, but simply because he deserves better, all around.

[The Red King]

Just now, 87168 said:

please. spoken like someone who's yet to peep over the fence.

 

and TT's claim was legit, but again, why try to understand when you can get angry?

 

I'm glad TT is in Cleveland. not because I dislik him, but simply because he deserves better, all around.

 

At what point was I angry?  But thank you for demonstrating the mindset of "...if you criticize a black QB, you must be racist...".  Which is, most ironically, a very racist thing to do.

[Teddy KGB]

17 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

On what planet were the Bills the worst passing offense in the league the last three seasons? And please don’t say it’s all about the yardage. That on its own is a horrible metric to judge a passing game by.

 

Also, saying that Taylor, a bona fide league average qb, isn’t in the top 30 makes me really question your judgment.

 

30 plus QBs got drafted in my fantasy league yesterday.      None of them were named Tyrod Taylor.   

15 minutes ago, 87168 said:

but simply because he deserves better, all around.

 

Deserves better what ?    He got paid starter money to be benched for project peterman 

 

And I’m out.    The same old bogus Church of Tyrod narratives are creeping back to the surface.         Enjoy the Browns games Tystans.   

Edited August 27, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

 

You...missed the entire point of my post.  It was regarding how people are too quick to play the race card these days, and the idea of true racism verses legitimate criticism of a QB that just happens to be black.

 

I think you are right there too. But the problem is real- I’ve seen it front and smcentwr in Baltimore near where I live and Charlottesville where my brother is.  

 

Hopefully in a few more generations it will die out.  But it’s here.

 

And then there is a less violent version of it where, folks while not overt, just can’t get behind the idea of a qb/face of team and leader that isn’t like them, or at least not it their view. 

 

But agree it’s also over claimed which hurts the cause.  

[SouthNYfan]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I think you are right there too. But the problem is real- I’ve seen it front and smcentwr in Baltimore near where I live and Charlottesville where my brother is.  

 

Hopefully in a few more generations it will die out.  But it’s here.

 

And then there is a less violent version of it where, folks while not overt, just can’t get behind the idea of a qb/face of team and leader that isn’t like them, or at least not it their view. 

 

But agree it’s also over claimed which hurts the cause.  

 

I didn't like Tyrod because I think he sucks.

Plain and simple.

He a decent guy, able to do some good things with the football, but his skills are just good enough to get you to "football purgatory" in regards to a .500 or so season, and not consistent for a playoff run.

There are QBs who put up worse #s than him overall, and are less effective overall, but their skillset allows them to win (ie flacco or dilfer winning superbowls, for example).

I couldn't care less if the QB and face of the franchise is white, black, Asian, Mexican, Cuban, whatever.

I'm a huge Watson fan, was wishing we drafted him last year, mahomes too.

McNair, Moon, Cunningham.

Pulling for Teddy b, whom I would have loved if I trusted his knee, which I don't.

Liking that Lamar Jackson is having a nice preseason too.

Love me some Winston.

I was hoping ej could do the job with us.

Race plays no factor to me whatsoever.

[The Red King]

47 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I think you are right there too. But the problem is real- I’ve seen it front and smcentwr in Baltimore near where I live and Charlottesville where my brother is.  

 

Hopefully in a few more generations it will die out.  But it’s here.

 

And then there is a less violent version of it where, folks while not overt, just can’t get behind the idea of a qb/face of team and leader that isn’t like them, or at least not it their view. 

 

But agree it’s also over claimed which hurts the cause.  

 

Oh, I'm well aware.  I even noted I have a racist relative, which annoys me to no end.  And why I ended with...

 

Quote

Racism is awful and sadly still exists in the world.  But there seems to be a large spike in the number of racism claims made, with less and less evidence to support them.  That only makes matters worse.  Every comment like Tyrod's makes it harder for people to take legitimate claims seriously.

 

It's there in degrees.  But for some reason, and this is a recent phenomenon, there seems to be a huge upswing in racism and sexism claims when someone faces legitimate criticism.  Having seen racism my whole life, those false claims bother me.  It just gives ammo to the people that want to dismiss *all* claims of it outright by pointing out the false claims.

 

In the end, and rereading your post, I actually think we're on the same page on this one.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I didn't like Tyrod because I think he sucks.

Plain and simple.

He a decent guy, able to do some good things with the football, but his skills are just good enough to get you to "football purgatory" in regards to a .500 or so season, and not consistent for a playoff run.

There are QBs who put up worse #s than him overall, and are less effective overall, but their skillset allows them to win (ie flacco or dilfer winning superbowls, for example).

I couldn't care less if the QB and face of the franchise is white, black, Asian, Mexican, Cuban, whatever.

I'm a huge Watson fan, was wishing we drafted him last year, mahomes too.

McNair, Moon, Cunningham.

Pulling for Teddy b, whom I would have loved if I trusted his knee, which I don't.

Liking that Lamar Jackson is having a nice preseason too.

Love me some Winston.

I was hoping ej could do the job with us.

Race plays no factor to me whatsoever.

 

Mahomes will be interesting. He and Allen are forever in an invisible competition in the eyes of the Bills fans. 

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Complete horse crap post.    Shame on you 

 

Race didn’t pass for 56 yards.      Tyrod did.  

 

........oddly, the Bills were one of the pioneers with black QB's ala James Harris and Marlin "The Magician" Briscoe".......yet TT was not  accepted here because of skin color?...go figure.....

[gobills1212]

2 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I didn't like Tyrod because I think he sucks.

Plain and simple.

He a decent guy, able to do some good things with the football, but his skills are just good enough to get you to "football purgatory" in regards to a .500 or so season, and not consistent for a playoff run.

There are QBs who put up worse #s than him overall, and are less effective overall, but their skillset allows them to win (ie flacco or dilfer winning superbowls, for example).

I couldn't care less if the QB and face of the franchise is white, black, Asian, Mexican, Cuban, whatever.

I'm a huge Watson fan, was wishing we drafted him last year, mahomes too.

McNair, Moon, Cunningham.

Pulling for Teddy b, whom I would have loved if I trusted his knee, which I don't.

Liking that Lamar Jackson is having a nice preseason too.

Love me some Winston.

I was hoping ej could do the job with us.

Race plays no factor to me whatsoever.

I get it..  i do, as there were a myriad of reasons to dislike TT... but saying you dont like him bc he 'sucks' makes it kinda hard to have a qlty debate. You dont get to the NFL by sucking, so more so you had issues with aspects of his game? He did somethings well, but more things avg or poorly - which ultimately led to his demise as the Bills qb. 

Maybe it was more of a generalization- but its tough to base an argument around 'sucks', ya know?

[SouthNYfan]

13 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

I get it..  i do, as there were a myriad of reasons to dislike TT... but saying you dont like him bc he 'sucks' makes it kinda hard to have a qlty debate. You dont get to the NFL by sucking, so more so you had issues with aspects of his game? He did somethings well, but more things avg or poorly - which ultimately led to his demise as the Bills qb. 

Maybe it was more of a generalization- but its tough to base an argument around 'sucks', ya know?

 

Actually, when it came down to performing in a way that QBs are needed to in order to win consistently, he did suck.

He was a one trick pony (well two)

-run

-throw deep

 

When those things were taken away, he was absolutely atrocious.

 

One could argue that he was not surrounded with WRs to maximize his deep ball, and I get that, but when it came down to things like:

-throwing across the middle

-throwing into traffic

-leading receivers

-progressing through reads more than once

-letting plays develop

He sucked at these things

Teams know this

You know what Jax strategy to beat him was?

MAKE HIM PLAY QB FROM THE POCKET

Guess what that gave us?

The terrible playoff performance.

 

As a complete qb Tyrod sucks.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

can I play the race card? 

 

 

make that two 

[twoandfourteen]

12 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

On what planet were the Bills the worst passing offense in the league the last three seasons? And please don’t say it’s all about the yardage. That on its own is a horrible metric to judge a passing game by.

 

Also, saying that Taylor, a bona fide league average qb, isn’t in the top 30 makes me really question your judgment.

 

Now, just to clarify for us slow kids in the back of the room... you are saying that "passing yardage" is a "horrible metric" to judge a passing game by. 

 

You're right. Maybe we should be using "Goals Against Average" or "Slugging %" to really get a true sense as to how good or bad a team's passing game is. 

 

 

This right here is a big part of why I am so intrigued by the "Great Tyrod Debate".  It has caused what I can only assume were once rational people to make -- and then resolutely stand by and argue -- statements such as: "passing yardage is a horrible metric to judge a passing game". 

 

By definition, passing yards are the measure of how many yards a team produces throwing the football. 

 

 

Now, as for my "top 30" comment. I used one simple criteria... "Would an NFL GM trade that player for Tyrod Taylor straight up?" 

 

So, lets do this one more time:

 

Brady

Brees 

Rogers

Ben

Rivers

Ryan

Wilson

Wentz

Goff

Stafford

Watson

Luck

Cousins

Smith

Garappolo

Newton

Bortles

Dalton

Carr

Bridgewater

Manning

McCown

Keenum

Prescott

Mariota

Bradford

Foles

 

...and then a few "borderline" guys:

 

Tannehill

Trubisky

Flacco

Brissett

 

...and then the new rookie class:

 

Mayfield

Darnold

Allen

Rosen

Jackson

 

There are 36 names for you right there. Now, granted, you could probably lump TT in at the tail end of that Tannehill-Trubisky group... but my point still stands. There are easily 28-30 guys that are clearly ahead of TT in the NFL right now. 

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by twoandfourteen

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Now, just to clarify for us slow kids in the back of the room... you are saying that "passing yardage" is a "horrible metric" to judge a passing game by. 

 

You're right. Maybe we should be using "Goals Against Average" or "Slugging %" to really get a true sense as to how good or bad a team's passing game is. 

 

 

This right here is a big part of why I am so intrigued by the "Great Tyrod Debate".  It has caused what I can only assume were once rational people to make -- and then resolutely stand by and argue -- statements such as: "passing yardage is a horrible metric to judge a passing game". 

 

By definition, passing yards are the measure of how many yards a team produces throwing the football. 

 

 

Now, as for my "top 30" comment. I used one simple criteria... "Would an NFL GM trade that player for Tyrod Taylor straight up?" 

 

So, lets do this one more time:

 

Brady

Brees 

Rogers

Ben

Rivers

Ryan

Wilson

Wentz

Goff

Stafford

Watson

Luck

Cousins

Smith

Garappolo

Newton

Bortles

Dalton

Carr

Bridgewater

Manning

McCown

Keenum

Prescott

Mariota

Bradford

Foles

 

...and then a few "borderline" guys:

 

Tannehill

Trubisky

Flacco

Brissett

 

...and then the new rookie class:

 

Mayfield

Darnold

Allen

Rosen

Jackson

 

There are 36 names for you right there. Now, granted, you could probably lump TT in at the tail end of that Tannehill-Trubisky group... but my point still stands. There are easily 28-30 guys that are clearly ahead of TT in the NFL right now. 

 

 

 

 

I'd say he's above Brissett.

He's definitely below Trubisky based solely on the fact that he's only a sophmore and they traded a bunch to get him.

He shouldn't be starting in the NFL anymore IMO.

[COTC]

And why did Beane trade our starting QB away with no backup plan?

 

hes in WAY over his head. 

[Bing Bong]

The national media loves Tyrod.

[KD in CA]

1 hour ago, COTC said:

And why did Beane trade our starting QB away with no backup plan?

 

hes in WAY over his head. 

 

Actually, he traded him away with a starting AND backup plan.

[twoandfourteen]

8 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I'd say he's above Brissett.

He's definitely below Trubisky based solely on the fact that he's only a sophmore and they traded a bunch to get him.

He shouldn't be starting in the NFL anymore IMO.

 

I mean, of course there's going to be some disagreement here and there on a couple of the guys. I personally think Brissett is better -- younger with more upside -- but he's not one I'd care enough about to debate. 

 

The point of this exercise is to show that you're not going to find 16-20 guys on there that TT is clearly better than to put him in the top 20 or 15 QBs in the NFL. Even if you took the 5 rookies off the list, there's still 31 names -- you would be really hard pressed to argue he's better than 11 of them.

 

However, if your rationale is that "passing yards & passing TDs" are irrelevant to gauging a QB's production (like some of the #TeamTyrod guys around here) then maybe you could get him up into the top 20. 

[Captain Murica]

19 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Mahomes will be interesting. He and Allen are forever in an invisible competition in the eyes of the Bills fans. 

 

 

I'd almost want to throw Watson in there as well. I thought I read that Whaley loved Watson during that draft. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 hour ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

I mean, of course there's going to be some disagreement here and there on a couple of the guys. I personally think Brissett is better -- younger with more upside -- but he's not one I'd care enough about to debate. 

 

The point of this exercise is to show that you're not going to find 16-20 guys on there that TT is clearly better than to put him in the top 20 or 15 QBs in the NFL. Even if you took the 5 rookies off the list, there's still 31 names -- you would be really hard pressed to argue he's better than 11 of them.

 

However, if your rationale is that "passing yards & passing TDs" are irrelevant to gauging a QB's production (like some of the #TeamTyrod guys around here) then maybe you could get him up into the top 20. 

Of the QBs who have started at least 15 games from 2015 to 2017 I have him 19th out of 39. ANY/A would put him 18th, Passer Rating would put him 15th.