Cohen's Plea Deal and its Implications for Trump

[Tiberius]

I don't make predictions cheesepoof 

[Deranged Rhino]

You've predicted for over two years that Trump was guilty of treason and conspiring with Russians to rig the election. You've been spectacularly wrong on that count, and every position you've shifted to since then. You're not wrong because you're intellectually limited (which you are), you're wrong because you don't care to be right. You only care about trolling and stirring the pot down here, nothing more. 

 

 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Yep.  It's a coup.  An attempt to delegitimize the entire administration.

 

If it were an honest attempt at justice, the perpetrators would be more concerned about "President Pence."

Lol, what, a coup and you clowns are not even starting a thread about it? You don't even believe your own nonsense 

[3rdnlng]

Gleeful Gator, you ignorant slut, there have been several threads concerning this coup posted in PPP for nearly 2 years now. Have you not read threads that you have barfed out your comments in?

[IDBillzFan]

46 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

All it is is spin designed to fool the simple minded.

 

Concerning is how many of them exist.

[TakeYouToTasker]

26 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

Concerning is how many of them exist.

 

It's not that it fools them, per se, it's largely that they are immoral would be despots, who, quite honestly, aren't interested in democratic forms of government unless it gives them what they want.

 

As soon as it doesn't grant what they want, they seek to overturn the entire concept of free and fair elections, and any pretense of self determination; and seek to run the political opposition's successful candidate, now the duly elected sitting President, out of office.

 

To those ends they insist on a never ending stream of narrative changes which remain fluid, so they don't have to stop and account for their veracity.  Special Counsel was appointed not to find, or debunk, the case of Russian collusion; but rather to dig and dig and dig until he could damage the President in some way, any way, in order to undo the democratic will of people they disagree with.

 

They don't believe anyone other than those whom agree with their ideology should be permitted to rule. 

 

WhiteWalker had a very telling thing to say earlier in the day:  "BUT SHE IS MORE CORRUPT, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU THINK THE PERSON WHO HAS VISIBILY PROMOTED CRONIES WHO VISIBLY PROFIT FROM DISMANTLING THE SERVICES THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT IS LESS CORRUPT THAN HILLARY." 

 

Let that sink in.

 

"Services they are supposed to protect"

 

The purpose of government, in their minds, is to prop up liberal sacred cows; and failure to do so is evidence of corruption.

 

Conservatism, and the shrinking and dismantling of entrenched liberal interests is malfeasance in their eyes, and justifies running them out of office.

 

Democracy is only tolerated while it wins them elections.  When it ceases to do so, coups and banana republics are the preferred order of the day.

 

As a result, we'll see a civil war in our lifetimes.

Edited August 22, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Lol, what, a coup and you clowns are not even starting a thread about it? You don't even believe your own nonsense 

 

It's a coup, you moron.  It just happens to be one you support.  Own it.

[IDBillzFan]

 

[oldmanfan]

3 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Actually, you raise a point that should stop and make you think if you have even a drop of competence in your field.

 

Your patients see you because they have expertise in themselves.  They know when something doesn't feel right.  They feel the pain, or discomfort.  They come to you because they want to know the root cause.

 

But, quite often, you fail them and get the root cause wrong.  They go on, dealing with the issue, trying new treatments, looking for second opinions, because you were wrong.

 

The fact that you are a medical expert does not confer on you the ability to correctly diagnose without the patient being a subject matter expert in what they are feeling.

This is completely and totally nonsense.  They have a medical problem and they come to see me because I have the expertise to help them.  And I do, way more times than not.  Your assumption that I and other medical practiciobers are oftentimes wrong and fail patients is absurd on its face.

 

Again I'll listen to professional prosecutors on matters of the law vs. guys like you, unless you are a member of the bar,

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

It's not that it fools them, per se, it's largely that they are immoral would be despots, who, quite honestly, aren't interested in democratic forms of government unless it gives them what they want.

 

As soon as it doesn't grant what they want, they seek to overturn the entire concept of free and fair elections, and any pretense of self determination; and seek to run the political opposition's successful candidate, now the duly elected sitting President, out of office.

 

To those ends they insist on a never ending stream of narrative changes which remain fluid, so they don't have to stop and account for their veracity.  Special Counsel was appointed not to find, or debunk, the case of Russian collusion; but rather to dig and dig and dig until he could damage the President in some way, any way, in order to undo the democratic will of people they disagree with.

 

They don't believe anyone other than those whom agree with their ideology should be permitted to rule. 

 

WhiteWalker had a very telling thing to say earlier in the day:  "BUT SHE IS MORE CORRUPT, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU THINK THE PERSON WHO HAS VISIBILY PROMOTED CRONIES WHO VISIBLY PROFIT FROM DISMANTLING THE SERVICES THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT IS LESS CORRUPT THAN HILLARY." 

 

Let that sink in.

 

"Services they are supposed to protect"

 

The purpose of government, in their minds, is to prop up liberal sacred cows; and failure to do so is evidence of corruption.

 

Conservatism, and the shrinking and dismantling of entrenched liberal interests is malfeasance in their eyes, and justifies running them out of office.

 

Democracy is only tolerated while it wins them elections.  When it ceases to do so, coups and banana republics are the preferred order of the day.

 

As a result, we'll see a civil war in our lifetimes.

 

Reducing the costs in government services is one thing. Handing over schools to someone who makes personal profit by making them fail is a bad idea. Betsy DeVos, along with being wildly incompetent at her job, her personal ownership in charter school and online learning. While this is not a bad thing HOLT **** is it a conflict of interest, and one that she has been exploiting.

 

The EPA is designed to make sure that we aren't poisoning ourselves for a quick buck. Scott Pruitt committed so many ethics violations that I honestly would need a thread to list them all. And now we have approval for new uses of asbestos in commercial products...you know, the thing that causes rampant cancer? 

 

Conservativism is not malfeasance, though I think of it as a seesaw of usage. The Trump administration just couldn't be more corrupt and cartoonishly greedy if they tried.

10 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

It's a coup, you moron.  It just happens to be one you support.  Own it.

 

A coup? I somehow missed how an investigation (with a very broad scope in its charter) which has yielded huge numbers of felony convictions for fraud is a coup.

 

Unless, of course, the coup target is one giant anthropomorphized fraud. Wait...this explains so much!!!

[TakeYouToTasker]

11 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

This is completely and totally nonsense.  They have a medical problem and they come to see me because I have the expertise to help them.  And I do, way more times than not.  Your assumption that I and other medical practiciobers are oftentimes wrong and fail patients is absurd on its face.

 

And this is why you fail, and likely aren't as competent as you could be in your field.

 

Doctors frequently make incorrect diagnosis, and patients who don't advocate for themselves fall away, as medical professionals like yourself don't even know how badly they have failed them.

 

Patients wishing to receive the best care need to advocate for themselves, and need to become their own experts.

 

Again I'll listen to professional prosecutors on matters of the law vs. guys like you, unless you are a member of the bar

 

This is laughable.  Not only have you outsourced your thinking to "experts" (an appeal to authority fallacy), you've done so to a single, small carve-out of the legal profession.

 

The role of a prosecutor is to gain convictions, not to find the truth; though I suspect you aren't valuing the input of individuals like Trey Gowdy or Rudi Giuliani throughout this process (former prosecutors, both). 

 

So the list grows even narrower:

 

You only appeal to the authority of a narrow group of a certain type of professional, whose role in the system doesn't even comport with your stated goal of finding an objective truth, and even then only when they appeal to your pre-conceived biases.

 

To undo your argument further:  prisoners serving lengthy sentences often become more versed in the law surrounding their own cases than the lawyers who represent them.  They have never passed the bar, but become their own experts because that's how individuals best advocate for themselves.

 

Your argument is an argument in favor of ignorance.  Mine is in favor of self empowerment.

 

I like my argument better; and if you had the best interests of your patients in mind, you'd like my argument better too.

[outsidethebox]

29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

This is completely and totally nonsense.  They have a medical problem and they come to see me because I have the expertise to help them.  And I do, way more times than not.  Your assumption that I and other medical practiciobers are oftentimes wrong and fail patients is absurd on its face.

 

Again I'll listen to professional prosecutors on matters of the law vs. guys like you, unless you are a member of the bar,

You're so full of shite!! I would believe you're a janitor in a hospital than a Dr.

 

You're way too ignorant and mentally limited to do anything more than clean toilets. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, westside said:

You're so full of shite!! I would believe you're a janitor in a hospital than a Dr.

 

You're way too ignorant and mentally limited to do anything more than clean toilets. 

Others here want to have an intelligent conversation.  You don't so don't waste my time

[Deranged Rhino]

45 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

 

Left out of that tweet - Perkins-Coie paid Russian intelligence assets, as well as British for the information. In other words, the very conspiracy many accuse Trump of doing with Russia, Steele and the DNC were actually doing. 

 

But details.

35 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Again I'll listen to professional prosecutors on matters of the law vs. guys like you, unless you are a member of the bar,

 

Remind us again of how you think for yourself... 

[outsidethebox]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Others here want to have an intelligent conversation.  You don't so don't waste my time

All you do is lie, lie and lie. What's so intelligent about that? 

You're a poster boy for the mentally inept! You lie so much,  you don't even realise that you're lieing. I have very little patience for such dishonest people like you. 

I  don't what you think, how you "feel".

The greatest contribution you can make to PPP is to leave and never come back.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

And this is why you fail, and likely aren't as competent as you could be in your field.

 

Doctors frequently make incorrect diagnosis, and patients who don't advocate for themselves fall away, as medical professionals like yourself don't even know how badly they have failed them.

 

Patients wishing to receive the best care need to advocate for themselves, and need to become their own experts.

 

 

 

 

This is laughable.  Not only have you outsourced your thinking to "experts" (an appeal to authority fallacy), you've done so to a single, small carve-out of the legal profession.

 

The role of a prosecutor is to gain convictions, not to find the truth; though I suspect you aren't valuing the input of individuals like Trey Gowdy or Rudi Giuliani throughout this process (former prosecutors, both). 

 

So the list grows even narrower:

 

You only appeal to the authority of a narrow group of a certain type of professional, whose role in the system doesn't even comport with your stated goal of finding an objective truth, and even then only when they appeal to your pre-conceived biases.

 

To undo your argument further:  prisoners serving lengthy sentences often become more versed in the law surrounding their own cases than the lawyers who represent them.  They have never passed the bar, but become their own experts because that's how individuals best advocate for themselves.

 

Your argument is an argument in favor of ignorance.  Mine is in favor of self empowerment.

 

I like my argument better; and if you had the best interests of your patients in mind, you'd like my argument better too.

We encourage patients to be their own advocates, encourage them to ask questions , and are always willing to encourage second opinions.  So again your assumption that there are errors or we don't do such things is erroneous.

 

This news broke last night.  To gain insight I read and listened to experts in the field, prosecutors that do this for a living.  If you are saying that we should not rely on experts in their field to help guide decision making or helping folks form opinions then I'm at a loss to figure out what you want.  I'm pretty smart but without a thorough background in the law I wouldn't pretend to understand such issues.

6 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Left out of that tweet - Perkins-Coie paid Russian intelligence assets, as well as British for the information. In other words, the very conspiracy many accuse Trump of doing with Russia, Steele and the DNC were actually doing. 

 

But details.

 

Remind us again of how you think for yourself... 

I'll take the information they provide, consider  it and then form my opinion.  Again I think you have confirmation bias, you take information and then fit it to your preconceived notion is what I am seeing.  

But as I said yesterday I'll read that one document you suggested about FISA.  Send me the link again; I can't find our posts on that.

6 minutes ago, westside said:

All you do is lie, lie and lie. What's so intelligent about that? 

You're a poster boy for the mentally inept! You lie so much,  you don't even realise that you're lieing. I have very little patience for such dishonest people like you. 

I  don't what you think, how you "feel".

The greatest contribution you can make to PPP is to leave and never come back.

Adults are having a conversation and debate here.  Run along now.

[3rdnlng]

10 minutes ago, westside said:

You're so full of shite!! I would believe you're a janitor in a hospital than a Dr.

 

You're way too ignorant and mentally limited to do anything more than clean toilets. 

He's a doctor from Western VA who used to post here under a different name. He's definitely a liberal but will sometimes listen to reason. He's also spent quite  bit of effort trying to change his "tells" but once in awhile slips up.

[Bray Wyatt]

5 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

He's a doctor from Western VA who used to post here under a different name. He's definitely a liberal but will sometimes listen to reason. He's also spent quite  bit of effort trying to change his "tells" but once in awhile slips up.

 

If you are referring to oldmanfan, he was indybillsfan on BBMB, and iirc he teaches anatomy or something of the like at a university, but he can correct me if I am mistaken, thats just off the top of my head.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Bray Wyatt

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Bray Wyatt said:

 

If you are referring to oldmanfan, he was indybillsfan on BBMB, and iirc he teaches anatomy or something of the like at a university, but he can correct me if I am mistaken, thats just off the top of my head.

 

 

Correct.  I am not from VA.

[Tiberius]

So Trump is saying that Cohen pleaded guilty to something that is not a crime 

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-campaign-finance-violations-not-a-crime