Lfod Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Allen's first real start in the pros against #1s: took 5 sacks (not all his fault) Peterman's first real start in the pros against #1s: threw 5 picks (not all his fault) Which guy needs more time to acclimate? I look at the post game interviews of JA and Peterman. One guy looks embarrassed and the other guy looks confident. Edited August 28, 2018 by Lfod
Thurman#1 Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: And you're entitled to your opinion, even if it's incorrect. Which it isn't. It's quite a reasonable opinion. The fact that he disagrees with the guy who by his own admission has been so consistently wrong on QBs - for years now - is actually a pretty good indicator that his opinion is very legit and sensible indeed.
transplantbillsfan Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said: Which it isn't. It's quite a reasonable opinion. The fact that he disagrees with the guy who by his own admission has been so consistently wrong on QBs - for years now - is actually a pretty good indicator that his opinion is very legit and sensible indeed. Look who comes out of the woodwork at the moment Allen had a bad game. What a joke. This from the guy who said Allen had a 5% chance of being the starter week 1 and then went into hiding when the chances increased
Thurman#1 Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said: Look who comes out of the woodwork at the moment Allen had a bad game. What a joke. This from the guy who said Allen had a 5% chance of being the starter week 1 and then went into hiding when the chances increased I know that this board and everyone's exact position on Allen has become such a bizarre obsession for you - same as it was during your near-insane obsession with Tyrod and a few before - that you think that people stay away or come here the way that you do ... tactically and with near complete preoccupation. That's not me, particularly these days. I don't "go into hiding," as if anyone would have to hide from the likes of you, a bizarre and funny idea you have about your importance and the importance of the whole issue. I simply have one of those things you show no signs of having ... a life. I came back now because I had a bit of time during my insanely wonderful six week trip back home in the U.S. And while I don't remember for sure when or how much, I've absolutely been here commenting on the past couple of preaseason games. Just haven't papered the walls with obsessions the way you do. I found five or ten posts to be plenty. I get it that that might seem bizarre to a guy who has, after looking back at your record, written 16 posts in the last 24 hours, every one in threads about Allen or Peterman ... a guy who you have to go back around 35 posts to find anything not about Allen or his competitors or even ex-crush that you just can't let go of, Tyrod ... yeah, I guess a guy with a posting record like that would find it bizarre that people might actually not have a somewhat disturbing obsession with a Buffalo Bills QB. But in fact, the guy who you replied to above had a very reasonable opinion. And you, as is your habit, misstated what he'd said ... and then labeled his opinion "incorrect". Again, typical for you to confuse your opinion for a fact. And yes, you were wildly mis-stating what he said. He said, "I don't understand why everyone is trying so hard to forget that he was a major project coming out of Wyoming." And you immediately replied , "Please stop pushing the narrative Allen is still a huge project who needs 2-3 years on the bench." A typical straw man setup from you, misstating what someone said and then attacking your own words as if they'd been said by someone else. And as for me saying he had a five percent chance to start week one ... well, sorta. What I actually said was that he had around a five percent chance ... unless the other Bills suffered injuries that set them back, and unless Allen was a whole ton better than he is expected to be. And he has been better, though not a whole ton, obviously. And an injury absolutely has pretty much set McCarron out of the competition, not that he was setting the world on fire anyway. The odds have changed. I'd probably give him a 25 or 30% chance now. And as for what people predicted, wasn't it you who said he had a chance of starting week one that was well over 50%? And are now rooting hard against it? The fact that the OL is likely to be pretty poor surprises nobody but you. It's been one of the main reasons cited since about the day after the draft for why Allen shouldn't start early and possibly not at all this year. ------------------------ Anyway, enough of Transplant's nonsense. Shouldn't have bothered with such tripe anyway. People are saying in this thread that sitting doesn't help you develop, that that's nonsense. Who disagrees with that? Josh Allen among others. "... sometimes quarterbacks can get thrown in there too early and that can have a snowball effect on them during your career. So coach is going to do the smart thing." - Josh Allen https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2018-nfl-training-camps-bills-wont-rush-josh-allen-into-starting-qb-role/ I love that the guy is this smart. But his lack of experience is huge. For those arguing he's ready, it sure doesn't look that way when he says something like this, "Sometimes when the play clock got a little low and I couldn't really dissect what they were doing and understanding what they were doing, it's tough on a quarterback." "The rookie admitting that he 'couldn't really dissect' what the defense was doing is more disappointing than the five sacks." http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000951742/article/bills-josh-allen-blames-self-for-five-sacks-vs-bengals Exactly. And the schemes were relatively vanilla this time of year. He needs more time and development.
Aussie Joe Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: Look who comes out of the woodwork at the moment Allen had a bad game. What a joke. This from the guy who said Allen had a 5% chance of being the starter week 1 and then went into hiding when the chances increased What chance did you give Peterman starting week 1 a few months back?
transplantbillsfan Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 47 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: What chance did you give Peterman starting week 1 a few months back? When I first started the prediction thread? About 50%. Those odds haven't changed much even now. Now they're maybe 40%. I'd rather not see Allen starting if our OL is really as atrocious as this, though.
Aussie Joe Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: When I first started the prediction thread? About 50%. Those odds haven't changed much even now. Now they're maybe 40%. I'd rather not see Allen starting if our OL is really as atrocious as this, though. I just bumped the thread... You said “5% if that”...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: I just bumped the thread... You said “5% if that”... I know exactly what I said. I wasn't hiding that thread. I've consistently bumped it. His chances are clearly greater than 5% right now. 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: I know that this board and everyone's exact position on Allen has become such a bizarre obsession for you - same as it was during your near-insane obsession with Tyrod and a few before - that you think that people stay away or come here the way that you do ... tactically and with near complete preoccupation. That's not me, particularly these days. I don't "go into hiding," as if anyone would have to hide from the likes of you, a bizarre and funny idea you have about your importance and the importance of the whole issue. I simply have one of those things you show no signs of having ... a life. I came back now because I had a bit of time during my insanely wonderful six week trip back home in the U.S. And while I don't remember for sure when or how much, I've absolutely been here commenting on the past couple of preaseason games. Just haven't papered the walls with obsessions the way you do. I found five or ten posts to be plenty. I get it that that might seem bizarre to a guy who has, after looking back at your record, written 16 posts in the last 24 hours, every one in threads about Allen or Peterman ... a guy who you have to go back around 35 posts to find anything not about Allen or his competitors or even ex-crush that you just can't let go of, Tyrod ... yeah, I guess a guy with a posting record like that would find it bizarre that people might actually not have a somewhat disturbing obsession with a Buffalo Bills QB. But in fact, the guy who you replied to above had a very reasonable opinion. And you, as is your habit, misstated what he'd said ... and then labeled his opinion "incorrect". Again, typical for you to confuse your opinion for a fact. And yes, you were wildly mis-stating what he said. He said, "I don't understand why everyone is trying so hard to forget that he was a major project coming out of Wyoming." And you immediately replied , "Please stop pushing the narrative Allen is still a huge project who needs 2-3 years on the bench." A typical straw man setup from you, misstating what someone said and then attacking your own words as if they'd been said by someone else. And as for me saying he had a five percent chance to start week one ... well, sorta. What I actually said was that he had around a five percent chance ... unless the other Bills suffered injuries that set them back, and unless Allen was a whole ton better than he is expected to be. And he has been better, though not a whole ton, obviously. And an injury absolutely has pretty much set McCarron out of the competition, not that he was setting the world on fire anyway. The odds have changed. I'd probably give him a 25 or 30% chance now. And as for what people predicted, wasn't it you who said he had a chance of starting week one that was well over 50%? And are now rooting hard against it? The fact that the OL is likely to be pretty poor surprises nobody but you. It's been one of the main reasons cited since about the day after the draft for why Allen shouldn't start early and possibly not at all this year. ------------------------ Anyway, enough of Transplant's nonsense. Shouldn't have bothered with such tripe anyway. People are saying in this thread that sitting doesn't help you develop, that that's nonsense. Who disagrees with that? Josh Allen among others. "... sometimes quarterbacks can get thrown in there too early and that can have a snowball effect on them during your career. So coach is going to do the smart thing." - Josh Allen https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2018-nfl-training-camps-bills-wont-rush-josh-allen-into-starting-qb-role/ I love that the guy is this smart. But his lack of experience is huge. For those arguing he's ready, it sure doesn't look that way when he says something like this, "Sometimes when the play clock got a little low and I couldn't really dissect what they were doing and understanding what they were doing, it's tough on a quarterback." "The rookie admitting that he 'couldn't really dissect' what the defense was doing is more disappointing than the five sacks." http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000951742/article/bills-josh-allen-blames-self-for-five-sacks-vs-bengals Exactly. And the schemes were relatively vanilla this time of year. He needs more time and development. Dear Lord there is just so much wrong with what you say here, Thurm. But a few things we can glean from your post regarding you that simply never change. You're massively hypocritical. You run away from arguments you're clearly wrong in or dance around those same arguments trying to twist in the wind to prove you're somehow right. You're here at least as much, but probably more for arguments of rhetoric rather than actual Football discussion. You get seriously lost in your arguments of rhetoric. I think it's a combination of eagerness to argue rhetoric combined with the arrogance of a professor/teacher of college (pretty sure you once said you were one of those) that suckers you into that trap so consistently. You don't have a very good sense of humor--massively failing to understand sarcasm and tongue in cheek responses. I could go on, but I don't have the time to respond as thoroughly as you. I have a life
Aussie Joe Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 23 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: When I first started the prediction thread? About 50%. Those odds haven't changed much even now. Now they're maybe 40%. I'd rather not see Allen starting if our OL is really as atrocious as this, though. Sorry im confused... Did you say 50 percent when you started the thread or 5%?
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 10 hours ago, Lfod said: I'm ok with that. I liked the preview of Josh Allen. I think the offense needs to improve entirely in the grand scheme of things as well. w/o a doubt 10 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Allen's first real start in the pros against #1s: took 5 sacks (not all his fault) Peterman's first real start in the pros against #1s: threw 5 picks (not all his fault) Which guy needs more time to acclimate? I get what you are saying. Josh has a first preseason start. Nate screwed the pooch in the Chargers game midseason because the QB was crap 4 games prior. Has Nate learned anything overt he past year? Who knows. Can Josh learn in the coming months? Who knows. the answer to both is we all hope both improve if they are to be here for any length of time. oh boy. with the season upon us things will get real "fun" in the "debate" department.
Bills4Ever4Life Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 14 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said: Why are you so self involved that you think the phrase "people act like" is specific to you? Peterman is awful. He will be awful. If he starts, he is the worst starting QB in the NFL. I'm not self involved. Maybe a bit self CENTERED ;)....but in honesty you were directly replying to my post so it makes sense that you were lumping me in with that crowd. As to Peterman being awful and being the worst starting QB in the NFL....you obviously have your opinion. It's barely grounded in reality and very heavily relies on your own personal feelings but you are allowed to have it. At this point I will just agree to disagree and move forward.
Bills4Ever4Life Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 14 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: You’re delusional if you think that NP interception was not his fault. It was late, high and behind Ivory, it was literally at least 75% NP fault. And his first pass against Cleveland was a dropped pick 6. Heck even pro football focus understands that the interception wasn't his fault. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-2018-panthers-28-bills-23. I'm sick of posting videos / photos that show the ball was BARELY behind him, NOT LATE, and maybe a few inches high. Ivory didn't have to slow down, turn around or otherwise break stride but instead just had to put his hands up and it bounced right off of them. THIS IS NOT HIS FAULT. Quote And stop it about playing against the 1’s, he didn’t really. Not everyone was out there for Car and it was literally first drive of first game of preseason against a vanilla D that’s not remotely close to what he will ever face in a game. I'll admit that he didn't play against a game plan but it was anything but vanilla (multiple blitzes with overloads etc....watch cover1.net) and he did a good job of getting out quick. Quote Praise NP for his overall preseason, but there are a lot of over exaggeration comments floating around. NP never once faced the kind of defensive pressure AJM last week and Allen this week faced. I mean our OL is worst in the NFL yet people were making delusional comments after Carolina about it being solid...why, because it wasn’t a real defensive effort or scheme they were facing. Incorrect. Do you want to know why NP didn't face the same pressure AJM has? Time to Release. NP has had a TTR or less than 2 seconds for 90% of his throws. Also, Nathan Peterman moves the offense at a MUCH quicker pace. He gets the team to the line quicker, gets the plays off quicker. In fact he gets them off an average of 10 seconds faster than AJM did and last game it wasn't even close. Keeping the defense on its heals with a fast paced offense that keeps throwing dinks and dunks for 5 - 10 yards with some breaking out for more now and then is EXACTLY how the Patriots have destroyed so many people for so long. Is NP the next Tom Brady? lol hell no but he takes what Brady does well and replicates it to a certain extent. THIS is why it LOOKS like NP isn't getting pressure....because any oline can hold a block for 1 second. It's the reason the running backs look better with NP under center. They are so afraid of the quick plays and so hard on their heals that they don't go throwing 8 in the box and overloading the run. Simple fact is, Nathan Peterman HAS faced some of the same defenders as AJM and with WORSE oline in place at times and he STILL made plays. Allen has a higher ceiling but the current status has NP well above JA. Quote And outside KBs TD, the other he threw were a broken play and an easy walk in...All against backups. Truth is: Whoever starts is going to have a hard time this year behind this OL, it’s that bad and NP has yet to have to REALLY play behind it yet. and who drove the team all the way down the field to allow the easy walk in? Also, NP HAS played behind that bad oline and im sorry but the Panthers had ALL their starters in and were in fact blowing by the oline....but by the time they got to NP the ball was out. NP made our o-line look good and good QB's do that. I get what you're saying. You have your opinion. I have watched all the games over and over. I have seen them live and on replay....I have done my due diligence and from what I have seen, Peterman is our man for now. Lucky for you I am not the coaching staff. I will continue to have my educated opinion and I will nod and shake my head to whomever they decide to give the start because they see SOOOO much more than I get to. Their decision will be much more educated than mine. I'm done arguing with someone who has obviously given up on Peterman after his one poor debut. It's funny because I had too.....but then I saw him play this off-season and came to rational conclusions. Why can't you?
transplantbillsfan Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 8 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: Sorry im confused... Did you say 50 percent when you started the thread or 5%? My bad, I think I was momentarily blinded trying to read a pretty poorly written novella someone I know with no life had just written. I initially said Peterman had about a 5% chance to start, not 50%.
jrober38 Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: "... sometimes quarterbacks can get thrown in there too early and that can have a snowball effect on them during your career. So coach is going to do the smart thing." - Josh Allen https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2018-nfl-training-camps-bills-wont-rush-josh-allen-into-starting-qb-role/ I love that the guy is this smart. But his lack of experience is huge. For those arguing he's ready, it sure doesn't look that way when he says something like this, "Sometimes when the play clock got a little low and I couldn't really dissect what they were doing and understanding what they were doing, it's tough on a quarterback." "The rookie admitting that he 'couldn't really dissect' what the defense was doing is more disappointing than the five sacks." http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000951742/article/bills-josh-allen-blames-self-for-five-sacks-vs-bengals Exactly. And the schemes were relatively vanilla this time of year. He needs more time and development. After two possessions of not moving the ball, Allen started to look like a deer in the headlights. As the end of the 2nd quarter neared, he looked really lost. He was holding the ball too long, and didn't pull the trigger on a few throws that ultimately resulted in sacks that didn't have to happen. Transplant might disagree, but Allen is an enormous project. At 6'5, 240, with 4.7 speed and the biggest arm to enter the NFL in about 10 years, if he wasn't a project he would have gone number 1 overall. Allen "slid" on draft day despite his enormous raw talent because he's a risky proposition. He was a mediocre QB prospect who came out of the Mountain West and quite simply isn't ready to run with the 1s against starting calibre defenses at this point in his development. As you said, hearing a rookie QB talk about how fast the game was, and about how he was overwhelmed and wasn't able to conduct proper presnap reads is a pretty serious indictment of how ready he is to lead an NFL offense. Nate Peterman on the other hand looks to be in complete control of the offense. He's quick to the line, knows what's going on with the other 10 guys on the field with him and he gets the ball out quickly. He lacks arm strength, but he's accurate and the ball gets out quickly. Allen has the talent, but as things stand he doesn't know how to properly use his tools because he processes what's happening on the field at a slower pace. He doesn't have experience and the jump from the MWC to the NFL is enormous.
starrymessenger Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 Don't really understand all the bad humour surrounding the QB controversy (such as it is). I take a step back and what I see is more ability, more talent and more promise at the position than the Bills have had in a very long time - regardless of who gets the start vs the Ravens (which should be Nate IMO).
Straight Hucklebuck Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 24 minutes ago, jrober38 said: After two possessions of not moving the ball, Allen started to look like a deer in the headlights. As the end of the 2nd quarter neared, he looked really lost. He was holding the ball too long, and didn't pull the trigger on a few throws that ultimately resulted in sacks that didn't have to happen. Transplant might disagree, but Allen is an enormous project. At 6'5, 240, with 4.7 speed and the biggest arm to enter the NFL in about 10 years, if he wasn't a project he would have gone number 1 overall. Allen "slid" on draft day despite his enormous raw talent because he's a risky proposition. He was a mediocre QB prospect who came out of the Mountain West and quite simply isn't ready to run with the 1s against starting calibre defenses at this point in his development. As you said, hearing a rookie QB talk about how fast the game was, and about how he was overwhelmed and wasn't able to conduct proper presnap reads is a pretty serious indictment of how ready he is to lead an NFL offense. Nate Peterman on the other hand looks to be in complete control of the offense. He's quick to the line, knows what's going on with the other 10 guys on the field with him and he gets the ball out quickly. He lacks arm strength, but he's accurate and the ball gets out quickly. Allen has the talent, but as things stand he doesn't know how to properly use his tools because he processes what's happening on the field at a slower pace. He doesn't have experience and the jump from the MWC to the NFL is enormous. I think its likely that both sides are right. Peterman gets the start based on the QB competition, but he will either be injured behind this line or will throw too many interceptions, leading to a losing record. The calls for Allen will start again, we know Bills fans just swerve all over the road in regards to QB. The Bills are bound by Allen having to start in 2019. Nobody is giving a 7th overall pick that cost as much extra as Allen, more than one year sitting on the bench.
jrober38 Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: I think its likely that both sides are right. Peterman gets the start based on the QB competition, but he will either be injured behind this line or will throw too many interceptions, leading to a losing record. The calls for Allen will start again, we know Bills fans just swerve all over the road in regards to QB. The Bills are bound by Allen having to start in 2019. Nobody is giving a 7th overall pick that cost as much extra as Allen, more than one year sitting on the bench. I think Allen made the line look worse than it actually played. It was bad, but his inexperience made them look terrible. I don't know if Peterman will get hurt or not, but I agree that Allen is going to start at some point. Sunday has me very concerned about how he'll fare though. He looked really overwhelmed and at times lost in the face of pressure. The game looked too fast for him on Sunday which in my eyes is a big concern considering that no one game plans in the preseason and the Bengals had him reeling with a basic Cover 2 defense. If a basic Cover 2 D in preseason has Allen overwhelmed, I'd hate to see what a good defense with a real game plan can do to him.
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted September 9, 2018 Posted September 9, 2018 I have inside information that Allen is behind on his bible homework and won't be starting until he catches up.
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