GoBills808 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, jrober38 said: Nothing you've dug up that I said is wrong. Guys like Allen practically never work out. Some guys who sat on the bench for a year or more did work out. The number of guys who sat and were successful is greater than the number of guys who completed less than 57% of their passes in college. Maybe sitting will help. History clearly shows playing him immediately will end in disaster. Yeh ok so first you yelled up and down predraft how guaranteed awful he was going to be, then you literally just said he needs to sit when just a couple of weeks ago you said sitting doesn't help. You're so wrong so often I can't believe your keyboard hasn't gone on strike. 2
Mikey152 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Nothing you've dug up that I said is wrong. Guys like Allen practically never work out. Some guys who sat on the bench for a year or more did work out. The number of guys who sat and were successful is greater than the number of guys who completed less than 57% of their passes in college. Maybe sitting will help. History clearly shows playing guys like him immediately will end in disaster. What, exactly, is a "guy like him"? This is the problem with your whole argument, in a nutshell. It has ZERO context. Low completion percentage = inaccurate. It doesn't take much to see that narrative was incorrect.
jrober38 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, GoBills808 said: Yeh ok so first you yelled up and down predraft how guaranteed awful he was going to be, then you literally just said he needs to sit when just a couple of weeks ago you said sitting doesn't help. You're so wrong so often I can't believe your keyboard hasn't gone on strike. You're reading comprehension skills are obviously quite poor. I didn't say it never helps. I said it's rarely helped, as in a small percentage of the time it has helped. If you're going to bother saving posts I made 7 months back, try reading them before posting them. 1
GoBills808 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, jrober38 said: You're reading comprehension skills are obviously quite poor. I didn't say it never helps. I said it's rarely helped, as in a small percentage of the time it has helped. If you're going to bother saving posts I made 7 months back, try reading them before posting them. So good.
jrober38 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: What, exactly, is a "guy like him"? This is the problem with your whole argument, in a nutshell. It has ZERO context. Low completion percentage = inaccurate. It doesn't take much to see that narrative was incorrect. Guys who had accuracy issues coming out of college. Particularly guys who didn't complete fewer than 57% of the throws they attempted at the collegiate level. There's the context. Edited August 20, 2018 by jrober38
Mikey152 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Guys who had accuracy issues coming out of college. Particularly guys who didn't complete fewer than 57% of the throws they attempted at the collegiate level. There's the context. Again, completion percentage and accuracy are not the same thing. That's the whole point. I mean, do you really think that Joe Flacco is more accurate than Dan Marino?
26CornerBlitz Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 AFC Preseason Grades: Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson Ace Week 2 The preseason is a time for jobs to be won, opportunities to be seized and depth charts to be determined. So, while wins and losses might not matter, there's plenty at stake for many players in these exhibition games. To help put these moments into context, Bucky Brooks will provide a grade for one player of interest from every NFL team after each of the first three full weeks of preseason action. Below, see the AFC player grades following Week 2. Grades for the Colts and Ravens, who play on Monday night, will be added later. Buffalo Bills: Josh Allen, QB. The Bills' QB1 of the future showed promise against the Browns. The strong-armed gunslinger was effective playing "small ball" in the team's quick-rhythm offense. Allen connected on a handful of Y-stick routes, hitches and quick outs that helped him get the ball out of his hands quickly. In addition, No. 17 continued to display some "wow" ability as a playmaker, using his athleticism to avoid defenders in the pocket before delivering darts to receivers down the field. Although he finished the night with just 60 passing yards on 9 of 13 passing (one touchdown), Allen looked like he could handle the pressure of being the team's QB1 as a rookie. Grade: A 1
GoBills808 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: I like to think of it as who's protecting him and to whom he's throwing for context's sake: 3rd stringers vs Panthers: 47% 2nd stringers vs Browns: 69%
jrober38 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, Mikey152 said: Again, completion percentage and accuracy are not the same thing. That's the whole point. I mean, do you really think that Joe Flacco is more accurate than Dan Marino? You're right. They're not the same thing. In fact, I don't know when I said they were. All I said is that QBs who couldn't complete more than 57% of their throws in college have no history of making successful NFL QBs (over the last 20 years).
26CornerBlitz Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, GoBills808 said: I like to think of it as who's protecting him and to whom he's throwing for context's sake: 3rd stringers vs Panthers: 47% 2nd stringers vs Browns: 69% Funny, but meaningless coincidence.
Mikey152 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, GoBills808 said: I like to think of it as who's protecting him and to whom he's throwing for context's sake: 3rd stringers vs Panthers: 47% 2nd stringers vs Browns: 69% Types of passes, too... It was nice to see him show he is capable of running an efficient offense against the Browns, where they moved the ball without a bunch of chunk plays.
GoBills808 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Funny, but meaningless coincidence. Yeh just ol' Rodak stirring the pot.
Mikey152 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, jrober38 said: You're right. They're not the same thing. In fact, I don't know when I said they were. All I said is that QBs who couldn't complete more than 57% of their throws in college have no history of making successful NFL QBs (over the last 20 years). You literally said "guys that have accuracy issues" then clarified via 57% comp %. Out of curiosity...how many of those guys were top 10 picks? My guess is we are talking about less than 5. Not exactly a huge sample size. So maybe, just maybe...there is some context there that makes him different? I mean, his numbers on third down, completion % wise, were similar to Darnold and Rosen. Edited August 20, 2018 by Mikey152
26CornerBlitz Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 18 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Nice breakdown. NFL Preseason: Josh Allen Touchdown to WR Rod Streater ICYMI
GunnerBill Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) I was not an Allen fan at draft time, my view on him was well known and was based on tape not on numbers. I think he is ahead of where I expected him to be at this stage. Game 1 was right there but game 2 he is ahead. I am encouraged by Josh. I think he can play. His improvement since he ended his college career seems to be that the inaccuracy is still there but occurs far more rarely. I still can't pinpoint reasons for the inaccuracy when it comes but it is coming at a far more manageable rate. I said he should win this job when he was drafted because I didn't have faith in either of the other 2. They both played well in week 1, but at the end of week 2 this looks every inch Josh's job to lose. 8-8 with Josh starting all 16 is like 12-4 in a normal year. Edited August 20, 2018 by GunnerBill 1
jrober38 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: You literally said "guys that have accuracy issues" then clarified via 57% comp %. Out of curiosity...how many of those guys were top 10 picks? My guess is we are talking about less than 5. So maybe, just maybe...there is some context there that makes him different? I mean, his numbers on third down, completion % wise, were similar to Darnold and Rosen. The accuracy issues are from reading several in depth reports that analyzed his ball placement. I'd intended for the two to be separate things. I agree with you that raw completion percentage and accuracy aren't the exact same thing, ie EJ Manuel has terrible accuracy despite completing a very high percentage of his passes at FSU. Where we picked Allen has no bearing on whether it was a good decision. Plenty of QBs have been picked in the top 10 who were complete busts. Some had accuracy problems and some had other issues. If I remember correctly, Joey Harrington, Akili Smith and Jake Locker were all top 10 guys with sub 57% completions who were all complete busts. Edited August 20, 2018 by jrober38
Jay_Fixit Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Again, completion percentage and accuracy are not the same thing. That's the whole point. I mean, do you really think that Joe Flacco is more accurate than Dan Marino? Mikey boyyyy!!!!!
Mikey152 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, jrober38 said: The accuracy issues are from reading several in depth reports that analyzed his ball placement. I'd intended for the two to be separate things. I agree with you that raw completion percentage and accuracy aren't the exact same thing, ie EJ Manuel has terrible accuracy despite completing a very high percentage of his passes at FSU. Where we picked Allen has no bearing on whether it was a good decision. Plenty of QBs have been picked in the top 10 who were complete busts. Some had accuracy problems and some had other issues. If I remember correctly, Joey Harrington, Akili Smith and Jake Locker were all top 10 guys with sub 57% completions who were all complete busts. You're completely missing the point about being drafted in the top 10. Guys don't wind up there by accident. Some dude drafted in the third round with a sub 57% completion percentage might have unfixable issues. But a guy drafted in the top 10 either has a trump card or, upon further scrutiny, his stats weren't a true reflection of his ability. Maybe both. Edited August 20, 2018 by Mikey152
Paulus Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, jrober38 said: You're right. They're not the same thing. In fact, I don't know when I said they were. All I said is that QBs who couldn't complete more than 57% of their throws in college have no history of making successful NFL QBs (over the last 20 years). Funny thing about stats, is the NFL has a way of crapping all over them and the people who know nothing more. Cling to your false profits (sic) of analytics. Allen has been pretty accurate from the tape, like it or not. Maybe, you should watch the tape. Or, you can watch the cherry picked stats and worship to your false masters.
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