Please name Josh Allen the starter

[BillsFan4]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

 

Some excellent quotes in that article. 

 

The guys already seem seem to believe in Josh Allen and gravitate toward him. 

I can totally see why, too. He really does seem to have a lot of energy and an infectious personality. 

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[allpurpose]

17 minutes ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

So why are people making claims that Allen was so much better when that's not reality at all?

 

And let's judge on college then.

 

Peterman was better in college. He absolutely lit up Clemson even. He had very good games against Penn State, Miami and Duke also. The guy has a lot of talent and people refuse to acknowledge it.

 

Allen has a lot of untapped potential too but he hasn't put it all together yet. I like both QBs. I wouldn't be mad with either starting but I think Peterman is better right now.

Comparing college performance to pro performance can be extremely misleading when you consider that nearly every NFL player (not all by any means) excelled at the college level and most did even better in high school, but once they reach the pro level they're not competing anymore with guys that will never play at any professional level. They're competing with other guys who also excelled in college and high school. 
College games are important, but they're not a great indicator of how well a player will fare at the NFL level. The NFL is generally comprised of the best college players from around the country. College teams are generally comprised of some of the best high school players and a lot of players who are just on the team to have fun.. Big difference.. 

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

11 minutes ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

I know Allen had a bad team at Wyoming. I've even made the same post in the past about it and even made a post about those games he didn't play against Fresno State and San Jose State.

 

Pitt also got considerably worse after Peterman left. They went from 8 wins to 5 wins.

Pittsburgh generally recruits decent and fields good teams.  Wyoming has had 5 winning seasons in the 18 years prior to Allen and the most they won was 8 games, while having a few seasons with just one or two wins.  The programs are not comparable.  What Allen was able to do with that team was remarkable.  Also that YPA stat you are throwing out is bull **** and anyone who watched the game knows why.  To me you can throw that stat out there but it makes it look even less like you know what you are talking about.

Edited August 18, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

My sentiments exactly.  Let the kid start next game.  He either wins the job or McD can safely go in another direction and let Allen sit a little longer.  In fact, he can still let Allen play most of the 4th preseason game too for more snaps to keep him progressing in case NP struggles in the early weeks of the season.

[suorangefan4]

Just now, allpurpose said:

Comparing college performance to pro performance can be extremely misleading when you consider that nearly every NFL player (not all by any means) excelled at the college level and most did even better in high school, but once they reach the pro level they're not competing anymore with guys that will never play at any professional level. They're competing with other guys who also excelled in college and high school. 
College games are important, but they're not a great indicator of how well a player will fare at the NFL level. The NFL is generally comprised of the best college players from around the country. College teams are generally comprised of some of the best high school players and a lot of players who are just on the team to have fun.. Big difference.. 

 

Ya think?

 

I'm just saying that Peterman was better in college and he's also been better this preseason.

 

The people saying Allen is clearly the best QB right now basically have no factual evidence to support that claim. I like Allen a lot too but Peterman is clearly ahead right now.

[nucci]

If McD was ok starting Peterman as a rookie last year on the road against SD, why wouldn't he be ok playing Allen...was Peterman's development ruined by playing him as a rookie?

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

1 minute ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

Ya think?

 

I'm just saying that Peterman was better in college and he's also been better this preseason.

 

The people saying Allen is clearly the best QB right now basically have no factual evidence to support that claim. I like Allen a lot too but Peterman is clearly ahead right now.

No he was not better in college or pre-season and I have already told you why.  Your stats are bull **** and I have told you why.  Ignore them if you want.

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

Ya think?

 

I'm just saying that Peterman was better in college and he's also been better this preseason.

 

The people saying Allen is clearly the best QB right now basically have no factual evidence to support that claim. I like Allen a lot too but Peterman is clearly ahead right now.

I dont see it. If you are looking at statistocs then maybe. But I'm looking at how Allen moves around the pocket , feels the pressure, keeps his eyes downfield and delivers a strike. Peterman has done nothing remotely close to the play Allen made on the goalline for the TD to Streater. That was an elite level play. That looked like Carson Wentz right there. Peterman doesn't have that play in his arsenal.

 

I'll take potential ups and downs with a rookie that has elite level ability and arm strength over a poor man's Chad Pennington all day.

Edited August 18, 2018 by matter2003

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

If McD was ok starting Peterman as a rookie last year on the road against SD, why wouldn't he be ok playing Allen...was Peterman's development ruined by playing him as a rookie?

 

 

...STILL think it was Dennison's "fine whine" because of his unwillingness/inability to work with TT that forced McD's hand....but the HC took the hit....an UNSUBSTANTIATED opinion.....

[suorangefan4]

Just now, matter2003 said:

I dont see it. If you are looking at statistocs then maybe. But I'm looking at how Allen moves around the pocket , feels the pressure, keeps his eyes downfield and delivers a strike. Peterman has done nothing remotely close to the play Allen made on the goalline for the TD to Streater. That was an elite level play. That looked like Carson Wentz right there. Peterman doesn't have that play in his arsenal.

 

What? 

 

Did you forget the play Peterman made last week when he escaped the rush, got outside the pocket and hit Benjamin along the sideline? That was an even tougher play than the one Allen made. He also made a nice play along the sideline last night under duress but was just a hair over the LOS when he threw it and got a penalty.

 

The throw Peterman made to O'Leary down the sideline was a perfectly thrown back shoulder throw. Not an easy throw at all.

 

Peterman is much better at escaping pressure than his naysayers are saying.

[Shaw66]

55 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:

The thing you and  lot of other people don't see, I that defenses have to play differently when Allen is in the game. They have to respect his pocket presense and scrambling ability. They can't give a step on short throws because of how quick the ball gets there. And they certainly don't want to get beat deep. So if you don't understand it all yet, I will spell it out for you. Defenses have to play him straight up. That helps out the line as he doesn't get sacked often, making them look better than they are. His offensive weapons have more room to do their thing. Little things like better spacing and defenses can't load up the box. I can go on all day pointing out the intangibles Allen brings . If you don't get it yet you probably don't understand football at a very basic level.

This is a really important point that seems to have gotten lost in the comparisons to Peterman.   This is what we saw when Allen came on the field.   Everything got easier for the offense.

 

We hear this point made from time to time about running backs.   It's been made about Shady.   Run blocking is easier with a back who gets into and out of the whole quickly.   The linemen will tell you, I've heard it several times, that they just don't have to hold their blocks as long.   They know, in effect, that they can sell out to a move that is effective for the short-term, because that's all a good  ball carrier needs.   

 

We see it with Brady.   Why are those no name linemen always so good?   One reason is that they KNOW Brady is getting rid of the ball quickly.  Why?   Because he's a deadly short-range thrower, and their passing scheme is set up to have receivers open up quickly. 

 

And that is what we saw last night.   Drop back, look and throw - bang!, the balls to the receiver.   As the quoted language says, everything changes for the offense, because a QB with Allen's talents causes the defense to play in certain ways.   They have to respect the deep ball, because Allen can chuck it.  They have to respect the short ball, because if they play off the receiver, Allen will complete short balls all night long.  They have to respect the throws over the middle, because Allen doesn't need much of a window.   All of that makes the game easier for the receivers.   It makes the game easier for the offensive line - blitzing is dangerous, because blitzing leaves a hole somewhere, and Allen can throw the ball into any hole.   It makes the game easier for the running backs, because eight-in-the-box is a recipe for disaster with that arm.  Eight in the box means even Benjamin can get deep, let alone Jones and Coleman and Streeter and Holmes.   

 

It was apparent last night.   The whole game got easier when Allen came into the game. 

[Dante]

3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I dont see it. If you are looking at statistocs then maybe. But I'm looking at how Allen moves around the pocket , feels the pressure, keeps his eyes downfield and delivers a strike. Peterman has done nothing remotely close to the play Allen made on the goalline for the TD to Streater. That was an elite level play. That looked like Carson Wentz right there. Peterman doesn't have that play in his arsenal.

 

I'll take potential ups and downs with a rookie that has elite level ability and arm strength over a poor man's Chad Pennington all day.

4

I was impressed with the TD pass. Illustrates exactly what you are saying. If that were Tyrod he is running the ball in and he may have. I loved how Josh kept his eyes downfiled and found a guy to throw to. 

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

What? 

 

Did you forget the play Peterman made last week when he escaped the rush, got outside the pocket and hit Benjamin along the sideline? That was an even tougher play than the one Allen made. He also made a nice play along the sideline last night under duress but was just a hair over the LOS when he threw it and got a penalty.

 

The throw Peterman made to O'Leary down the sideline was a perfectly thrown back shoulder throw. Not an easy throw at all.

 

Peterman is much better at escaping pressure than his naysayers are saying.

I thought Peteman's play last night was eye-opening.   He did a lot of good things.  

 

I'm usually a stats guy, and I distrust the eyeball test, so I'm way out of my comfort zone here, but I'll take what my eyes tell me about Allen over Peterman's obviously superior stats.   Why?   In part because of what I was saying about the game getting easier with Allen playing.  He's a better scrambler, a better thrower than Peterman.    Peterman looked to me like he always was on the edge of a disaster.  Allen looked like he was taking candy from a baby.   

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This is a really important point that seems to have gotten lost in the comparisons to Peterman.   This is what we saw when Allen came on the field.   Everything got easier for the offense.

 

We hear this point made from time to time about running backs.   It's been made about Shady.   Run blocking is easier with a back who gets into and out of the whole quickly.   The linemen will tell you, I've heard it several times, that they just don't have to hold their blocks as long.   They know, in effect, that they can sell out to a move that is effective for the short-term, because that's all a good  ball carrier needs.   

 

We see it with Brady.   Why are those no name linemen always so good?   One reason is that they KNOW Brady is getting rid of the ball quickly.  Why?   Because he's a deadly short-range thrower, and their passing scheme is set up to have receivers open up quickly. 

 

And that is what we saw last night.   Drop back, look and throw - bang!, the balls to the receiver.   As the quoted language says, everything changes for the offense, because a QB with Allen's talents causes the defense to play in certain ways.   They have to respect the deep ball, because Allen can chuck it.  They have to respect the short ball, because if they play off the receiver, Allen will complete short balls all night long.  They have to respect the throws over the middle, because Allen doesn't need much of a window.   All of that makes the game easier for the receivers.   It makes the game easier for the offensive line - blitzing is dangerous, because blitzing leaves a hole somewhere, and Allen can throw the ball into any hole.   It makes the game easier for the running backs, because eight-in-the-box is a recipe for disaster with that arm.  Eight in the box means even Benjamin can get deep, let alone Jones and Coleman and Streeter and Holmes.   

 

It was apparent last night.   The whole game got easier when Allen came into the game. 

I'm still getting used to the ball travelling so fast downfield from Allen the cameraman only catches the tail end when the receiver is already catching the ball...going to be weird if he is in the regular season and you have to try and figure out what is happening because the cameraman is consistently a second or two late getting to where he needs to be...

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Dante said:

I was impressed with the TD pass. Illustrates exactly what you are saying. If that were Tyrod he is running the ball in and he may have. I loved how Josh kept his eyes downfiled and found a guy to throw to. 

That's the kind of play Aaron Rodgers makes, and we're all agog.  

 

Put it together with the touchdown pass last week, a completely different play but a TD pass very few NFL QBs throw.   Two weeks, two truly big-time TD passes.

 

[Big Blitz]

Did anyone seriously think after his first 2 preseason games AJ was on track to start and even if he was that he's been as good or better than Peterman and Allen?  AJ to me has looked so...meh.

 

Let it come down to these last 3 weeks.  Actually, its probably going to be a decision made by next Sunday.  Whoever starts, so long as he plays well, is probably the week 1 starter.

 

My eyes are telling me Allen gives us the best chance to win.  This is going to be a fun week. 

 

Hoping for good news on Kyle!

Edited August 18, 2018 by Big Blitz

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I'm still getting used to the ball travelling so fast downfield from Allen the cameraman only catches the tail end when the receiver is already catching the ball...going to be weird if he is in the regular season and you have to try and figure out what is happening because the cameraman is consistently a second or two late getting to where he needs to be...

I emailed a friend last night and said that Allen throwing looks like it's in a Disney cartoon.   The ball disappears out of his hand and seemingly instantly instantly appears in the receiver's hands.   The receivers seem already to be used to how quickly the ball gets there, and the defenders seem to have practically no time to react.   It IS weird. 

 

In comparison, it seems like you could mow the lawn while you're waiting for McCarron's and Peterman's throws to arrive.  

[allpurpose]

14 minutes ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

Ya think?

 

I'm just saying that Peterman was better in college and he's also been better this preseason.

 

The people saying Allen is clearly the best QB right now basically have no factual evidence to support that claim. I like Allen a lot too but Peterman is clearly ahead right now.

Yes, I do think...unlike many fans who see college games and automatically think a decent college player will make in the pro's..  Every year before the draft fans around the country clamor for certain college players who really have no business in the NFL..  It's just the way it goes.. 

[bobobonators]

To me so far Allen has been the best looking QB on the Bills, and I'm trying to be 100% objective and not just root for the kid b/c ideally I want to see him play. He clearly has the only real NFL arm on this team (and boy what an arm it is). But in addition, he has demonstrated pocket presence, an ability to scramble out of the pocket, an ability to move up in the pocket, and has looked pretty poised.