Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 On 8/16/2018 at 12:31 PM, Chandler#81 said: Does anyone else having gut-rumbling fear we may have passed on a raw but brilliant rookie QB, despite his legendary Uncle’s urging to consider him?.. I'm glad we have Allen now as he reminds of a bigger stronger Chad, which is saying a lot considering Chad has a great arm. He also was very mobile last night and had great command of the offense, looked better than Case. Paxton Lynch is a disaster, Broncos wouldn't get anything for him in a trade.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 On 8/14/2018 at 8:10 AM, GunnerBill said: I still refuse to buy the argument that the better pick than taking Shaq was to take Paxton Lynch. If someone wants to make the argument that they should have taken Myles Jack I am not going to take issue with them... there are other guys who went later (including Deion Jones who had I a 1st round grade on) who would have been better selections too. But to take Paxton Lynch just because he was a Quarterback when there were so many freaking red flags about his ability to play in the league.... no. I just can't take that argument. I am all for picking Quarterbacks in the first round, early and often until you find one. But some years you have to look at those who are there at your pick and just say "no, they're horrible." Are you that desperate to justify why you had Shaq as one of the top 10 players in that draft.? Picking the top rated QB on your board is about policy...........a policy of using that pick on the only position that really matters in the big picture. Yeah you get your share of Paxton Lynch's........and sure some of your "other 21 positions" picks would be studs.......but even if you draft an all pro like Dareus or a stud WR like Watkins those positions just don't necessarily pay off for you long term unless you have a QB. You don't need to "buy" any argument about that..........bottom line is that until they finally bit the bullet on Allen all they had to show for 17 years of first rounders was your boy Shaq and my boy Tre White. So basically one good player to show for 17 years of typically drafting in the top third of round one. As arguments go.......no purchase necessary bro.........SCOREBOARD. The numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of hyper-prioritizing the drafting of QB's..........even at the expense of missing out on a Shaq type player.? 1
thebandit27 Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Are you that desperate to justify why you had Shaq as one of the top 10 players in that draft.? Picking the top rated QB on your board is about policy...........a policy of using that pick on the only position that really matters in the big picture. Yeah you get your share of Paxton Lynch's........and sure some of your "other 21 positions" picks would be studs.......but even if you draft an all pro like Dareus or a stud WR like Watkins those positions just don't necessarily pay off for you long term unless you have a QB. You don't need to "buy" any argument about that..........bottom line is that until they finally bit the bullet on Allen all they had to show for 17 years of first rounders was your boy Shaq and my boy Tre White. So basically one good player to show for 17 years of typically drafting in the top third of round one. As arguments go.......no purchase necessary bro.........SCOREBOARD. The numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of hyper-prioritizing the drafting of QB's..........even at the expense of missing out on a Shaq type player.? I fall between you and Gunner on the QB debate. I am closer to where you fall in that I believe QB should always be the choice with the caveat that you have to have at least some measure of belief that the guy will become a franchise QB. I don't care if it's a 10% chance; that's enough for me. With Lynch, I simply couldn't see it. At all. I understand you feel differently, but if I truly can't see it in any way/shape/form, I wouldn't take the guy. (and as you know, I'm on record that my pick in 2016 would've been Myles Jack all day long). Of course, if you're a team that's desperate, like the Bills were in 2013, then the pendulum swings back toward QB-or-bust, which is why I agreed with the EJ pick. How's that for non-committal?
GunnerBill Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Are you that desperate to justify why you had Shaq as one of the top 10 players in that draft.? Picking the top rated QB on your board is about policy...........a policy of using that pick on the only position that really matters in the big picture. Yeah you get your share of Paxton Lynch's........and sure some of your "other 21 positions" picks would be studs.......but even if you draft an all pro like Dareus or a stud WR like Watkins those positions just don't necessarily pay off for you long term unless you have a QB. You don't need to "buy" any argument about that..........bottom line is that until they finally bit the bullet on Allen all they had to show for 17 years of first rounders was your boy Shaq and my boy Tre White. So basically one good player to show for 17 years of typically drafting in the top third of round one. As arguments go.......no purchase necessary bro.........SCOREBOARD. The numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of hyper-prioritizing the drafting of QB's..........even at the expense of missing out on a Shaq type player.? I have accepted I was wrong on Shaq... and I loved Tre White too for what it is worth. My point is not to dispute the taking a QB strategy. The point is to dispute taking Paxton Lynch. He sucked. He was an obvious failure. My 3rd and 4th QBs that year were Cook (failure) and Precott (hit). I could have understood either of them even if the consensus was reach. I just knew the consensus was wrong on Lynch. You can say I didn't know or I was arrogant if you like but I knew he was a bust. And he has been a bust. It wasn't rocket science. He wasn't that good in college. He is the same player now. 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: I fall between you and Gunner on the QB debate. I am closer to where you fall in that I believe QB should always be the choice with the caveat that you have to have at least some measure of belief that the guy will become a franchise QB. I don't care if it's a 10% chance; that's enough for me. With Lynch, I simply couldn't see it. At all. I understand you feel differently, but if I truly can't see it in any way/shape/form, I wouldn't take the guy. (and as you know, I'm on record that my pick in 2016 would've been Myles Jack all day long). Of course, if you're a team that's desperate, like the Bills were in 2013, then the pendulum swings back toward QB-or-bust, which is why I agreed with the EJ pick. How's that for non-committal? You are not between us. That is EXACTLY where I am. I think Badol's strategy is right. I would just never, ever have picked Lynch. He sucks and always did. And Jack was the top player on my board too. Though I did like Shaq a lot and am happy to own that pick. I don't hide from my mistakes. Edited August 20, 2018 by GunnerBill
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) On 8/16/2018 at 12:31 PM, Chandler#81 said: Does anyone else having gut-rumbling fear we may have passed on a raw but brilliant rookie QB, despite his legendary Uncle’s urging to consider him?.. Paxton Lynch? Kidding- I don’t know why he sux so Bad. Kelly? We’ll see. I’m really hoping the qb thing is solved now. Edited August 20, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1
26CornerBlitz Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 The word is that the Broncos have called the Jets to inquire about the availability of Teddy Bridgewater.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: The word is that the Broncos have called the Jets to inquire about the availability of Teddy Bridgewater. ...the tariff should be interesting..........Lynch for Teddy straight up.....
26CornerBlitz Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...the tariff should be interesting..........Lynch for Teddy straight up..... NFW the Jets take Lynch. He's worthless.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: NFW the Jets take Lynch. He's worthless. LOL...his aim is worse than LaCanfora........NOT one of Elway's finer moments....yet he's STILL there....
26CornerBlitz Posted August 20, 2018 Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said: LOL...his aim is worse than LaCanfora........NOT one of Elway's finer moments....yet he's STILL there.... Yep. Definitely a whiff.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 21, 2018 Posted August 21, 2018 4 hours ago, thebandit27 said: I fall between you and Gunner on the QB debate. I am closer to where you fall in that I believe QB should always be the choice with the caveat that you have to have at least some measure of belief that the guy will become a franchise QB. I don't care if it's a 10% chance; that's enough for me. With Lynch, I simply couldn't see it. At all. I understand you feel differently, but if I truly can't see it in any way/shape/form, I wouldn't take the guy. (and as you know, I'm on record that my pick in 2016 would've been Myles Jack all day long). Of course, if you're a team that's desperate, like the Bills were in 2013, then the pendulum swings back toward QB-or-bust, which is why I agreed with the EJ pick. How's that for non-committal? I wasn't personally selling the virtues of Lynch as a franchise QB here on TSW......just the idea of taking shots at QB. That narrative was created to counter my real-time dogging of the Shaq selection and apparently too-spot-on analysis of his limitations.? If they would have taken Lynch I'd have strongly supported the attempt to resolve the only personnel problem that is hard to resolve and the only personnel problem that really matters in the grand scheme. The guy that I "projected" would be the bpa at a premium position when the Bills were up was William Jackson. He hasn't broken out yet but his ceiling is high and he's getting legit buzz as a breakout player so we'll see. But none of us thought Jack was going to be there........like many I was also all over that when he slipped. Let's face it though......it was not a great draft and that is EXACTLY when you take shots at high risk/high reward guys..........there simply wasn't much to lose by taking chances there and the teams that "won" that draft did EXACTLY that. I mean people act like John Elway missed out on a bunch of HOF'ers taking a shot on Lynch......even though the next round was almost entirely populated with players who have become JAGs or less. The Bills did their part to become a victim of that draft.........drafting for need from a pool of mediocrity is just asking for it.
MAJBobby Posted August 21, 2018 Posted August 21, 2018 On 8/16/2018 at 11:31 AM, Chandler#81 said: Does anyone else having gut-rumbling fear we may have passed on a raw but brilliant rookie QB, despite his legendary Uncle’s urging to consider him?.. Nope
Bill from NYC Posted August 21, 2018 Posted August 21, 2018 15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Are you that desperate to justify why you had Shaq as one of the top 10 players in that draft.? Picking the top rated QB on your board is about policy...........a policy of using that pick on the only position that really matters in the big picture. Yeah you get your share of Paxton Lynch's........and sure some of your "other 21 positions" picks would be studs.......but even if you draft an all pro like Dareus or a stud WR like Watkins those positions just don't necessarily pay off for you long term unless you have a QB. You don't need to "buy" any argument about that..........bottom line is that until they finally bit the bullet on Allen all they had to show for 17 years of first rounders was your boy Shaq and my boy Tre White. So basically one good player to show for 17 years of typically drafting in the top third of round one. As arguments go.......no purchase necessary bro.........SCOREBOARD. The numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of hyper-prioritizing the drafting of QB's..........even at the expense of missing out on a Shaq type player.? ^^^^^^^ Beyond dispute imo.
Mr. WEO Posted August 21, 2018 Posted August 21, 2018 On 8/16/2018 at 12:31 PM, Chandler#81 said: Does anyone else having gut-rumbling fear we may have passed on a raw but brilliant rookie QB, despite his legendary Uncle’s urging to consider him?.. Nope. He's made it to his ceiling. 2
Royale with Cheese Posted August 21, 2018 Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: The word is that the Broncos have called the Jets to inquire about the availability of Teddy Bridgewater. https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/20/will-denver-broncos-trade-for-teddy-bridgewater/ Edited August 21, 2018 by Royale with Cheese
BADOLBILZ Posted August 21, 2018 Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I have accepted I was wrong on Shaq... and I loved Tre White too for what it is worth. My point is not to dispute the taking a QB strategy. The point is to dispute taking Paxton Lynch. He sucked. He was an obvious failure. My 3rd and 4th QBs that year were Cook (failure) and Precott (hit). I could have understood either of them even if the consensus was reach. I just knew the consensus was wrong on Lynch. You can say I didn't know or I was arrogant if you like but I knew he was a bust. And he has been a bust. It wasn't rocket science. He wasn't that good in college. He is the same player now. You are not between us. That is EXACTLY where I am. I think Badol's strategy is right. I would just never, ever have picked Lynch. He sucks and always did. And Jack was the top player on my board too. Though I did like Shaq a lot and am happy to own that pick. I don't hide from my mistakes. Yeah I'm just bustin your balls because you brought the subject back up. The thing is a lot of people in NFL personnel departments liked both Shaq and Lynch enough that neither would have made it far into the second round. They were both projections based on hope rather than what they'd proven on tape...... in a weaker draft. It's just that Lynch was a very raw unknown with top end physical traits at the most important position in pro sports and the other was merely a complementary talent at a position where you ideally want two #1 quality players because it's THAT important. To me........that kind of draft is the ideal time to be taking shots on high ceilings because there isn't that much to lose in a weak draft. The Bills played not to lose in that draft and subsequently failed to win. Edited August 21, 2018 by BADOLBILZ 1
Bing Bong Posted August 21, 2018 Posted August 21, 2018 I'm a Keenum fan and really have little connection with Chad. He's the son of an athlete I like..
co_springs_billsfan Posted August 21, 2018 Posted August 21, 2018 On the local radio yesterday the host was saying Chad Kelly won't amount to anything because he was a 7th round pick. Then he said "There's only one Tom Brady. There's only one Kurt Warner." I really wanted to call in and point out that Case Keenum was undrafted. Just seems like a really weak, lazy argument. I'm not arguing Chad Kelly will ever have a better moment in his professional career than becoming 2nd string for the Broncos, but it's entirely in the realm of possibility that he ascendancy could continue... 2
JESSEFEFFER Posted August 21, 2018 Posted August 21, 2018 Prior to Ol' Miss there was lots of trouble. Once he got there, I think Hugh Freeze got to him in a good way. The stuff after was minor, imo. Seeking to protect his brother in a HS game melee, messaging a porn star, being at a dorm room poker party with marijuana is the extent of it as far as I remember. The 5 month timeline of knee injury --> surgery --> no Senior Bowl -->Combine invite rescinded--> Pro Day wrist injury --> wrist surgery was a train ride of bad news that ended with becoming Mr. Irrelevant. Since then he's done everything he needed to do. Getting that title may have helped the turnaround. I think John Elway went dumpster diving and may have found something of extreme value to his franchise. He's got top echelon arm talent, both strength (210+ ft throw at pp&k as a 15 yr old which is still their record ) and accuracy; a decisive, play making style; and a fear none attitude that mixes well with having more athleticism that what his uncle had. That package can work well for him. He may have finally matured beyond his high strung temper and disrespectful attitude toward anyone that challenges him. Maybe he has figured out that an attitude like that is a losing one that is bound to wreck his future. Authority always wins so there is no use fighting it. Chad Kelly is writing his own redemption story and one can be skeptical of it, but also should acknowledge that it might be taking place. If you know the Dirty Dozen, I think he is way more like Victor Franko than AJ Maggot which makes me think he could be a good team leader in the NFL if he is within the right structure. I doubt that he has reached his ceiling.
Recommended Posts