whatdrought Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 16 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: Sorry that I like QBs that throw to open WR's rather than believe they can make a throw between 3 defenders. There is a time for that throw, that wasn't the time. It worked, which shows his talent. Had he pumped and then came back to Prohel it would have been much more impressive to me. But who cares what I think. I'm not sure why people keep commenting at me. It's a preseason game we won't remember in a few days. I get what you're saying, and I agree... But it also only matters what does happen. While it wasn't a smart throw, If he makes those throws then it's a wash. There are some guys (Favre comes to mind) who look at stupid throws and just know that they can make it. Favre was right probably 80% of the time. The other times he looked foolish. If that's who Allen is, I'll take it. 1
Bing Bong Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Like I said, Inconsistent. Inaccurate means that he cannot put the ball where it needs to be when it needs to be there. He obviously can. Inconsistent means that he can't do it (or struggles to do it) on a consistent basis. The problem with those who quote his completion % and use it to prove that he's inaccurate, is that that speaks towards his consistency. If he can throw the ball accurately from anywhere and in any situation (which he does) then the issue is consistency. the reason that this is important, and the reason for my initial post, is that Accuracy is a talent while consistency is a skill. Talent is born, skill is learned. You make a great point. A rookie is bound to increase consistency and showed incredible accuracy. But consistency is always going to plateau, million dollar question wins. This could be the difference between him being an Eli Manning (which would still be amazing) or a Big Ben.. much more consistent. Accurate. Maybe KB is right. ANY quarterback IS better! 9 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I get what you're saying, and I agree... But it also only matters what does happen. While it wasn't a smart throw, If he makes those throws then it's a wash. There are some guys (Favre comes to mind) who look at stupid throws and just know that they can make it. Favre was right probably 80% of the time. The other times he looked foolish. If that's who Allen is, I'll take it. Again. Great point. //panders for reciprocation in rep points But honestly, yeah if he makes the ballsy throws and forgets about the game situation cause he 's confident he can squeeze it in.. That's absolutely young Favre.. throwing touchdowns to receivers his OC never never would have called as an actual play.
Chandler#81 Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 1 hour ago, TheTruthHurts said: It wasn't open. ? yeah, Ray-Ray said the same thing..
Last Guy on the Bench Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 52 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: Sorry that I like QBs that throw to open WR's rather than believe they can make a throw between 3 defenders. There is a time for that throw, that wasn't the time. It worked, which shows his talent. Had he pumped and then came back to Prohel it would have been much more impressive to me. But who cares what I think. I'm not sure why people keep commenting at me. It's a preseason game we won't remember in a few days. I would have agreed with you on first looking at that play. But the Cover1 breakdown was illuminating. A) He wasn't reading Proehl's route by design (at least that's what the Cover1 guy thinks), and B) Proehl isn't actually open when Allen starts his throw - be breaks open after that when the safety cheats over to the outside - if the safety had followed him, Proehl he wouldn't have been open - but Allen's already made his decision before it's clear what the safety is going to do. Bold decision. Great throw. And for anyone saying he had several inaccurate throws in that game, I don't see them. The two that were way off were obviously miscommunications. They were so far off there is no way Allen was throwing to where the receiver ended up. Still might have been his fault, but from screwing up the play or misreading the defense, not from inaccuracy. On the bombs NO QB hits those precisely even 50% of the time. Your best hope is that someone can get a long one close enough that you'll hit it now and then. He certainly did that. I was amazed at how accurate Allen was in this game. 1
Kelly the Dog Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 If you consider it as a whole, for one two minute drive, in his first half of a game, it was absolutely insane. The ability to control the play, the avoiding the rush, the pure arm, the accuracy, etc, was off the charts. The play Foster stopped running was ridiculous. That's the top highlight for the entire league if he keeps running and it hits him in stride. Plus the throw to Kahri. Plus the TD. All in his first two minute drive ever. Taken in context, and detailed breakdown, that is way, way better than anything we saw out of Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold or any one else. 3
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: If you consider it as a whole, for one two minute drive, in his first half of a game, it was absolutely insane. The ability to control the play, the avoiding the rush, the pure arm, the accuracy, etc, was off the charts. The play Foster stopped running was ridiculous. That's the top highlight for the entire league if he keeps running and it hits him in stride. Plus the throw to Kahri. Plus the TD. All in his first two minute drive ever. Taken in context, and detailed breakdown, that is way, way better than anything we saw out of Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold or any one else. YES. It's taken a decade and a half, but we agree! 1
starrymessenger Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 Excellent breakdown. Thanks for posting. Allen's talent is flat out ridiculous. I had projected him as potentially in the Elway mould, and I'm still comfortable with that comparison, but man the Favre likeness is compelling. No QB ever had as much insane confidence in his arm as Brett Favre - unless it's maybe Josh Allen. Ungodly testosterone. If as advertised he's also a really quick study, they should probably start him sooner rather than later. I'd try to accelerate his second and first team reps and live action and see how he does. If he handles it well I would turn him loose. This kid has the potential to be a dominant player at the all important position. 1
Fadingpain Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 2 hours ago, whatdrought said: Like I said, Inconsistent. Inaccurate means that he cannot put the ball where it needs to be when it needs to be there. He obviously can. Inconsistent means that he can't do it (or struggles to do it) on a consistent basis. The problem with those who quote his completion % and use it to prove that he's inaccurate, is that that speaks towards his consistency. If he can throw the ball accurately from anywhere and in any situation (which he does) then the issue is consistency. the reason that this is important, and the reason for my initial post, is that Accuracy is a talent while consistency is a skill. Talent is born, skill is learned. You are mincing words. Consistency/Inaccuracy. What you call it doesn't matter. What matters is that it's a problem, and data shows QBs with this problem seldom get it fixed. That which we call a rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet.
Magnetar Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Fadingpain said: What you call it doesn't matter. What matters is that it's a problem, and data shows QBs with this problem seldom get it fixed. We have a winner!
Kirby Jackson Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: You are mincing words. Consistency/Inaccuracy. What you call it doesn't matter. What matters is that it's a problem, and data shows QBs with this problem seldom get it fixed. That which we call a rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet. There is a difference though. The data shows that accuracy isn’t often fixed. Allen’s base is incosistent causing inconsistent accuracy. If they can work on the base he will resolve these issues. He spent his Wyoming career running for his life though and didn’t have a chance to do that. By all accounts he made big strides in this area under Jordan Palmer in the pre-draft process. This needs to continue but there has already been substantial progress.
TigerJ Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) The analysis of this Allen led drive is a real good example of why the Wonderlic results matter for a QB. Allen came out of a school that is not a football power, he's a rookie, and yet he's doing things like looking off receivers and usng pump fakes to hold DBs, stuff that usually comes with experience. I'm sure he's been coached to do those thngs, but how often do you see young QBs staring down their intended receivers? Allen is taking the coaching and applying what he learns far more quickly than is typical. That suggests he may be ready to start sooner rather than later. Edited August 13, 2018 by TigerJ 1
Saxum Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 19 hours ago, Logic said: But ya know what I REALLY like about Allen? He's fearless. He has absolutely 0% hesitation in him when he thinks he can make a throw. Now yes, that IS going to get him into trouble at times and cause some frustrating turnovers. But when he's right -- and make no mistake about it, his physical talent allows him to complete throws that he shouldn't even be ATTEMPTING -- it's a sight to behold. You can't teach guts and fearlessness at the QB position. You either have it or you don't. Allen has it. Fearless is good but sometimes it is better to take the play more likely to move the chains. Fitzpatrick was fearless as well but with the ball and with his body but he could not make the throws sometimes. Take the chances when you need to take them. If you are behind by two scores in 2nd half you are IMO not risking anything but stats taking chances.
DieHardBillsFan Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 I am starting to love every time Allen gets compared to Ben Roethlisberger because of how annoyed he gets about it.
starrymessenger Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 49 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: You are mincing words. Consistency/Inaccuracy. What you call it doesn't matter. What matters is that it's a problem, and data shows QBs with this problem seldom get it fixed. That which we call a rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet. I do think there is a meaningful distinction to be drawn between inaccuracy and inconsistency. Allen can be deadly accurate. He will make throws that only the greatest QBs playing the game today can make. And it's not an accident. He actually does it quite a lot. Inaccurate QBs simply "cannot do what [Allen] do" in the words of Chad Johnson. He just needs to learn to do it more often and the Bills have pushed a lot of chips on the square that says he can. I like the bet they made. I like it a lot.
Luka Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 Accuracy is not equal to completion percentage. Amazing that it even has to be said after watching Tyrod for 3 years. He deliberately placed that touchdown pass. It wasn't a mistake. He pump faked to pull the corner and threw a laser. But he saw Prohel as well, or at the very least, his coaches already had said hey, you had Prohel for an easy one over the middle. His completion percentage isn't high because he is taking shots. How many passes traveled less than 12-15 yards downfield? Not that many. Maybe none. That's the part of him that McDermott and Dabol probably want to tame ever so slightly. It's situational football. If it's 3rd and 3 we are going to need him to take the 5 yard out if it's open. There comes a time in every game when you need that big play and what's exciting to I think most fans, is that he looks more than capable of delivering. Something we haven't seen since Kelly.
whatdrought Posted August 14, 2018 Posted August 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Fadingpain said: You are mincing words. Consistency/Inaccuracy. What you call it doesn't matter. What matters is that it's a problem, and data shows QBs with this problem seldom get it fixed. That which we call a rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet. I posted a clarification of two different words and their perception as I saw them to be. You took it upon yourself to question it. So either I am wrong, which it seems like you do not believe, or else you missed the point of my initial post.... Allen has accuracy. He lacks consistency. Two different things.
Shaw66 Posted August 14, 2018 Posted August 14, 2018 17 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said: Not sure why Cover1 accepts the read on the TD. That was a low % attempt. The coverage should have lead Allen to the middle of the field. Hopefully Bills coaches don't accept that read. I think this absurd. He made the read, determined the man was open and threw the touchdown. He's not supposed to look to the left if he had a man open. Yeah, some will say, but that guy wasn't open. Not open for Peterman, but he was open for Allen. He was supposed to make that throw. 1
SoCal Deek Posted August 14, 2018 Posted August 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I think this absurd. He made the read, determined the man was open and threw the touchdown. He's not supposed to look to the left if he had a man open. Yeah, some will say, but that guy wasn't open. Not open for Peterman, but he was open for Allen. He was supposed to make that throw. Thanks Shaw. Most don't understand that a well designed NFL passing offense is designed to have WRs come open at different times as the QB naturally scans his way across the field. The QB goes through his progressions, either left to right, or shot to deep. If a WR on the opposite side of the field happens to be open, it makes little difference as the QB's progression is designed to take his eyes there...yet. The really successful NFL QBs read their designed progression and make the throw in a split second....just like Allen did.
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