BigDingus Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 17 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: Not going to challenge your ‘statboy’ premise as 50%of 19 is 9.5, it just seems that’s the only way you WANT to view him. But given his other-worldly accuracy, the 3 wild misses had to be misdiagnosis by either the receivers or him. At least 2 were flat out drops and Foster quit on 2 routes. Carry on. Excellent take. If McD’s job did ‘just get tougher’, it’s because he doesn’t want to start Allen to begin with (5-7 road games). But if coach stays true to his preaching, the BEST players will start. Here's the problem with your breakdown...you're assigning fault to everyone but him. People did this with Tyrod, Manuel, Losman, Edwards, Holcomb, etc. too, game after game, year after year. The other problem is every QB in the game has the same stuff working against them...blown routes, poor timing on some plays, dropped balls, effort issues, etc. And even though Allen has always had stats like this from HS to College, people will still blame his completion percentage on others all season. Doesn't matter that he's had plenty of games like that (16 games over the past 2 years he failed to complete 60% of his passes), or that every other QB in the world has to deal with the same types of problems, we're going to pretend when Allen's game performances match his track record, it's not who he REALLY is...and that it's someone else's fault.
BigDingus Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 14 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Ooo no another Completion % = Accuracy guy. Because completion percentage & accuracy are just minor things to ignore? (2017 Numbers) Drew Brees - 72.0% Alex Smith - 67.5% Jimmy Garoppolo - 67.4% Tom Brady - 66.3% Matt Stafford - 65.7% Matt Ryan - 64.7% Aaron Rodgers - 64.7% Kirk Cousins - 64.7% Big Ben - 64.2% Jameis Winston - 63.8% Philip Rivers - 62.6% Tyrod Taylor - 62.6% Jared Goff - 62.1% Eli Manning - 61.6% Russell Wilson - 61.3% Carson Wentz - 60.2% Blake Bortles - 60.2% Andy Dalton - 59.9% Mitch Trubisky - 59.4% Cam Newton - 59.1% Trevor Siemian - 59.0% Ryan Fitzpatrick - 58.9% Jacoby Brisset - 58.8% Brian Hoyer - 58.0% JOSH ALLEN - 56.1% (PAST TWO YEARS)***** Tom Savage - 56.1% Brock Osweiler - 55.8% Blaine Gabbert - 55.6% CJ Beathard - 54.9% Deshone Kizer - 53.6% I see the better group of QB's tend to have higher completion percentages to go along with the rest of their numbers...I also notice that sub 60% tends to be where the bad, or at best, inconsistent QB's reside. There are exceptions to every rule, but I know I'd rather have him positioned between Tyrod & Rivers or Ryan & Stafford than Tom Savage & Brian Hoyer or Blaine Gabbert & Brock Osweiler... 1
Figster Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BigDingus said: Because completion percentage & accuracy are just minor things to ignore? (2017 Numbers) Drew Brees - 72.0% Alex Smith - 67.5% Jimmy Garoppolo - 67.4% Tom Brady - 66.3% Matt Stafford - 65.7% Matt Ryan - 64.7% Aaron Rodgers - 64.7% Kirk Cousins - 64.7% Big Ben - 64.2% Jameis Winston - 63.8% Philip Rivers - 62.6% Tyrod Taylor - 62.6% Jared Goff - 62.1% Eli Manning - 61.6% Russell Wilson - 61.3% Carson Wentz - 60.2% Blake Bortles - 60.2% Andy Dalton - 59.9% Mitch Trubisky - 59.4% Cam Newton - 59.1% Trevor Siemian - 59.0% Ryan Fitzpatrick - 58.9% Jacoby Brisset - 58.8% Brian Hoyer - 58.0% JOSH ALLEN - 56.1% (PAST TWO YEARS)***** Tom Savage - 56.1% Brock Osweiler - 55.8% Blaine Gabbert - 55.6% CJ Beathard - 54.9% Deshone Kizer - 53.6% I see the better group of QB's tend to have higher completion percentages to go along with the rest of their numbers...I also notice that sub 60% tends to be where the bad, or at best, inconsistent QB's reside. There are exceptions to every rule, but I know I'd rather have him positioned between Tyrod & Rivers or Ryan & Stafford than Tom Savage & Brian Hoyer or Blaine Gabbert & Brock Osweiler... Allen throws at a very high velocity that has already proven to come at you a little hot to handle at times for some of the Bills WR's. Allens release has been clocked at over 70 MPH. Give Josh Allen sure handed recievers along with good protection. Add a RB like Shady to dump the ball off to short and watch Allens completion percentage go up. ( In my humble opinion ) Josh Allen can make throws that only a very small percentage of QB's in the NFL can make. Edited August 12, 2018 by Figster
ganesh Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 18 hours ago, eball said: I really wonder what Daboll and McD are thinking after they reviewed the game tape. Does Josh get a few more reps with the ones since he flashed his ability to make eye-opening plays and didn't show any signs that the big stage was too much for him? Even the postgame comments from teammates were somewhat telling -- they are also in awe of his talent. If the coaches aren't afraid Josh will make big mistakes to lose games, there's really no justification for not playing him when you consider his ability to make huge plays that the other two QBs simply aren't capable of making. I suppose it also comes down to the coaches being confident that Josh can "move the sticks" even when the big play isn't there. McD was right yesterday when he said his job just got tougher. The biggest thing the coaches will evaluate is if they are putting 52 other guys on the rosters ability to make the playoffs in Jeopardy. If not, they will make the right decision
John from Riverside Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 11 hours ago, JohnC said: Brady is a HOF qb who is one of the most accurate passers in the history of the game. I'm confident that Allen will never attain that extraordinary level of accuracy. If you think otherwise then so be it. Way to go out on a limb there From this guy has no business being drafted in the first round.....is a absolute bust....will struggle against NFL competition So....."well now he wont be as good as what might be the great greatest QB EVER" I can certainly live with a franchise qb that is not as good as Tom Brady LOL 1
RocCityRoller Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: That was a different era. Playing in mop-up time, ahead or behind, doesn't do much for a qb's development. Real growth comes from preparing, playing, film study, preparing, playing. I disagree with you buddy, and I like your posts in general. Favre, Young, McNabb, Rogers and others benefited from sitting. So will Allen. AJM will be aok this year. 1
John from Riverside Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 13 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said: link to Brady Quinn talking about Josh Allen: https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/brady-quinn-talks-impressive-josh-allen-andrew-luck-concerns/ Is that who I thought that was on there with Brady Quinn.....the guy who was calling For Josh Allen to absolutely bust Did you see how fast he skirted past Josh Allen when Quinn brought him up and moved on to Andrew Luck LOL 1
Boatdrinks Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 1 hour ago, BigDingus said: Here's the problem with your breakdown...you're assigning fault to everyone but him. People did this with Tyrod, Manuel, Losman, Edwards, Holcomb, etc. too, game after game, year after year. The other problem is every QB in the game has the same stuff working against them...blown routes, poor timing on some plays, dropped balls, effort issues, etc. And even though Allen has always had stats like this from HS to College, people will still blame his completion percentage on others all season. Doesn't matter that he's had plenty of games like that (16 games over the past 2 years he failed to complete 60% of his passes), or that every other QB in the world has to deal with the same types of problems, we're going to pretend when Allen's game performances match his track record, it's not who he REALLY is...and that it's someone else's fault. We are ? How about we assign the blame where it belongs on each incompletion ? This stuff isn’t that hard. I think it’s well known that Wyoming didn’t feature high percentage passes or have many good players. So I’ll wait and see if Allen can play before I decide that he can’t. Plenty of Bills fans blamed Tyrod, Manuel, Edwards et al.
John from Riverside Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: We are ? How about we assign the blame where it belongs on each incompletion ? This stuff isn’t that hard. I think it’s well known that Wyoming didn’t feature high percentage passes or have many good players. So I’ll wait and see if Allen can play before I decide that he can’t. Plenty of Bills fans blamed Tyrod, Manuel, Edwards et al. Dingus has had a chance to see what Josh looks like at the NFL level.....and he is only going to get better Everybody saw it.....if Josh had a deep threat guy who would lay out for a big play Josh Allen's numbers would have been insane for a 1st NFL start.....as it was they were "good" But hey.....if ppl are happy with QBs that dont push the ball down the field and throw 5 yard passes all day.........
transplantbillsfan Posted August 12, 2018 Author Posted August 12, 2018 18 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: I read one article yesterday titled something along the lines of best and worst of the Thursday night games. Peterman and Benjamin combo made the best of the day highlights, but Allen was on the worst list for bad throws, inaccurate, etc which is funny now reading this Should tell you whoever wrote that article looked at random highlights and didn't actually watch the game. 18 hours ago, JohnC said: Of course the timetable/plan is not iron clad. That's not what I meant. That would be a foolish thing to implement. Whichever word you are more comfortable with they are not mutually exclusive. What I am comfortable in saying is that this staff is not going to throw Allen in as a starter until he is ready enough to handle the role. And that will be determined by the rookie player. With respect to the issue of precision passing I simply disagree with you about what Allen is capable of. You may consider it too early to come to that conclusion but I don't. He has a different style of play than those two HOF qbs, Brees and Brady. I say with absolute certainty that Allen will never be as precise of passer as those two special qbs. If you think otherwise that is fine. Bold statement. A statement like that warrants the question of whether you'll leave the message board if you're wrong with no consequences for anyone else if you're right since you're absolutely certain. If that's the case, you risk nothing... right?
CommonCents Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Should tell you whoever wrote that article looked at random highlights and didn't actually watch the game. Bold statement. A statement like that warrants the question of whether you'll leave the message board if you're wrong with no consequences for anyone else if you're right since you're absolutely certain. If that's the case, you risk nothing... right? How about let’s keep the good posters on the board instead of trying to usher them out the door. 1
swnybillsfan Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 On 8/11/2018 at 4:57 AM, ganesh said: His time will come...Neither Peterman nor AJ can make that kind of throws. I don't want Allen thrown to the wolves when our first 5 of 7 games are on the road. i think this is exactly right. the problem here is when we are losing, i have had a few beverages, and i start yelling at the tv. i know this is the right course of action, but it may be very hard to take if the offense becomes stagnant at any point. if we are going to struggle, i will want to see the kid sling that ball. but i also believe that once you put him in, he is in there for good, there is no going back. 1
IgotBILLStopay Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, BigDingus said: Because completion percentage & accuracy are just minor things to ignore? (2017 Numbers) Drew Brees - 72.0% Alex Smith - 67.5% Jimmy Garoppolo - 67.4% Tom Brady - 66.3% Matt Stafford - 65.7% Matt Ryan - 64.7% Aaron Rodgers - 64.7% Kirk Cousins - 64.7% Big Ben - 64.2% Jameis Winston - 63.8% Philip Rivers - 62.6% Tyrod Taylor - 62.6% Jared Goff - 62.1% Eli Manning - 61.6% Russell Wilson - 61.3% Carson Wentz - 60.2% Blake Bortles - 60.2% Andy Dalton - 59.9% Mitch Trubisky - 59.4% Cam Newton - 59.1% Trevor Siemian - 59.0% Ryan Fitzpatrick - 58.9% Jacoby Brisset - 58.8% Brian Hoyer - 58.0% JOSH ALLEN - 56.1% (PAST TWO YEARS)***** Tom Savage - 56.1% Brock Osweiler - 55.8% Blaine Gabbert - 55.6% CJ Beathard - 54.9% Deshone Kizer - 53.6% I see the better group of QB's tend to have higher completion percentages to go along with the rest of their numbers...I also notice that sub 60% tends to be where the bad, or at best, inconsistent QB's reside. There are exceptions to every rule, but I know I'd rather have him positioned between Tyrod & Rivers or Ryan & Stafford than Tom Savage & Brian Hoyer or Blaine Gabbert & Brock Osweiler... The stats you cite are compelling. But - you are extrapolating Josh Allen's college stats (at a nondescript football program) to stats at NFL level for the others. Can you guess the quarterback from the Ohio Valley Conference, who posted senior season statistics of completing 92 of 173 passes for 53.2% and had six TD passes, 11 INTs, and 1,229 yards. His career school record was 409 completions in 835 attempts for 48.9%! He also totalled 32 TDs, 45 INTs, and 5,545 yards. He was picked in the first round of the draft to the surprise of many (with many team fans booing the pick) and went on to become the career leader in completion percentage in a Super Bowl game? He managed to up his NFL career completion percentage by nearly 7%! Edited August 12, 2018 by IgotBILLStopay
Foxx Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: The stats you cite are compelling. But - you are extrapolating Josh Allen's college stats (at a nondescript football program) to stats at NFL level for the others. Can you guess the quarterback from the Ohio Valley Conference, who posted senior season statistics of completing 92 of 173 passes for 53.2% and had six TD passes, 11 INTs, and 1,229 yards. His career school record was 409 completions in 835 attempts for 48.9%! He also totalled 32 TDs, 45 INTs, and 5,545 yards. He was picked in the first round of the draft to the surprise of many (with many team fans booing the pick) and went on to become the career leader in completion percentage in a Super Bowl game? He managed to up his NFL career completion percentage by nearly 7%! didn't Phil Simms have the higest completion percentage in the Superbowl? 1
MAJBobby Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 7 hours ago, BigDingus said: Because completion percentage & accuracy are just minor things to ignore? (2017 Numbers) Drew Brees - 72.0% Alex Smith - 67.5% Jimmy Garoppolo - 67.4% Tom Brady - 66.3% Matt Stafford - 65.7% Matt Ryan - 64.7% Aaron Rodgers - 64.7% Kirk Cousins - 64.7% Big Ben - 64.2% Jameis Winston - 63.8% Philip Rivers - 62.6% Tyrod Taylor - 62.6% Jared Goff - 62.1% Eli Manning - 61.6% Russell Wilson - 61.3% Carson Wentz - 60.2% Blake Bortles - 60.2% Andy Dalton - 59.9% Mitch Trubisky - 59.4% Cam Newton - 59.1% Trevor Siemian - 59.0% Ryan Fitzpatrick - 58.9% Jacoby Brisset - 58.8% Brian Hoyer - 58.0% JOSH ALLEN - 56.1% (PAST TWO YEARS)***** Tom Savage - 56.1% Brock Osweiler - 55.8% Blaine Gabbert - 55.6% CJ Beathard - 54.9% Deshone Kizer - 53.6% I see the better group of QB's tend to have higher completion percentages to go along with the rest of their numbers...I also notice that sub 60% tends to be where the bad, or at best, inconsistent QB's reside. There are exceptions to every rule, but I know I'd rather have him positioned between Tyrod & Rivers or Ryan & Stafford than Tom Savage & Brian Hoyer or Blaine Gabbert & Brock Osweiler... Completion % does not mean Accurate. See this Incomplete but Accurate throw. Incomplete because of WR. That is the inherent flaw with Completion % = Accuracy. 1
hemma Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 He obviously made some great plays with that arm, but I was surprised with his wheels. For a big guy, he can really move and also seems to know when to get OB or go down. If he gets to play this year, he'll rip more than a few long runs.
JohnC Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Bold statement. A statement like that warrants the question of whether you'll leave the message board if you're wrong with no consequences for anyone else if you're right since you're absolutely certain. If that's the case, you risk nothing... right? Maybe bold for you but not for me. I would gladly leave this board if I were wrong. On this issue I am supremely confident. Take my post and put it in your pocket. If I am wrong you can bring it to may attention so that I can act on my departure if it comes to pass.
Chandler#81 Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 8 hours ago, BigDingus said: I see the better group of QB's tend to have higher completion percentages to go along with the rest of their numbers...I also notice that sub 60% tends to be where the bad, or at best, inconsistent QB's reside. There are exceptions to every rule, but I know I'd rather have him positioned between Tyrod & Rivers or Ryan & Stafford than Tom Savage & Brian Hoyer or Blaine Gabbert & Brock Osweiler... and the problem with this analysis are the short, safe patterns the majority of your listed QB’s rely on. Allen had no such luxury in Big Sky country and is better than average attacking the secondary. He had 1 ‘in the hands’ drop on 3rd & Short his 1st series. All other safe passes were perfectly placed using a variety of throws (slinging, dropping over LBs, sidearm). but I get it. Haters gonna Hate. 1
JohnC Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 7 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Way to go out on a limb there From this guy has no business being drafted in the first round.....is a absolute bust....will struggle against NFL competition So....."well now he wont be as good as what might be the great greatest QB EVER" I can certainly live with a franchise qb that is not as good as Tom Brady LOL I have half a dozens responding posts that state I am wrong in making such an obvious claim. Of course it is crazy talk to believe that Allen is capable of being as accurate passers as these two HOF qbs. Tell the zealots, not me, to come back to reality.
Fixxxer Posted August 12, 2018 Posted August 12, 2018 Josh Allen's night 1 bad overthrow (first pass, he led Foster OOB, the second one he let it fly under pressure, Foster could have done more there) 2 drops (Reilly and Foster) 2 miscommunications with his WRs (Foster and Ray Ray) 2 incomplete passes contested by the D (I thought these were late decisions by Allen) 1 really bad play on fourth down (should scrap that play from the playbook) 1 sack Ran for first downs (2), completed all the short passes (including screen passes) and threw a TD. All in all, a promising debut. We should all agree that we would like to see him next with the second or first unit.
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