Lets give some credit to THE O LINE

[SoTier]

20 minutes ago, wiskibreth said:

We are in really big trouble if that OL situation isn't addressed.  I don't think I've ever seen pass protection that bad at the professional level; that is if you can even call what we saw today "professional".

 

You cannot start Allen with pass protection that bad.  By default you have to start someone else.  He doesn't have the the experience to even begin to deal with that.  All you;re going to do is get him hurt, and probably ruin his confidence.  Red shirt him this year.

 

I have.  The Bills OL back in 2008 and 2009 under Dick Jauron was about as bad at pass pro, and it couldn't run block at all.  Whatever yards Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson got in those years came from them without any "help" from their OL.

 

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I have.  The Bills OL back in 2008 and 2009 under Dick Jauron was about as bad at pass pro, and it couldn't run block at all.  Whatever yards Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson got in those years came from them without any "help" from their OL.

 

It was bad in 08 and 09, no doubt about it.  I’ve never seen anything like this before though.  It might be impossible for them to play this bad again

[PIZ]

Is it the players or the OL coaching/scheme?

 

 

[SoTier]

52 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

What OL were available in those rounds that you wanted?  Taron Johnson is in line to start in the dime defense.

 

How about instead of trading up to 16 to take Edmunds, the Bills stay at #22 or #23 and take Isaiah Wynn, G, and use that extra pick on a LB prospect?   If they traded up to 16, they could have taken Frank Ragnow or Billy Price (both centers).  Maybe they could have gambled and wound up still getting Edmunds at #22 or #23 and used that extra pick on an OLer. 

 

Edmunds simply isn't that outstanding a prospect to merit trading up when the Bills had already given up so much to get Allen, and had so many needs on both sides of the ball.  I thought that the Bills gave up too much to be sure that they got Allen, but the Edmunds pick really pee'd me off.  IMO, it's going to haunt the Bills for years to come.  A team can't win many games without a decent OL because even Brady can't throw TDs when he's on his back.

 

 

 

[Peter]

1 hour ago, Luka said:

 

It shocks me that with all the moves this front office has made so far that they didn't even attempt to address the O-Line.

 

It is shocking.  We had a team with some holes last year and now, one of our strengths is a horrible mess.
 

1) Dawkins played well for a rookie last year but I never recall seeing Cordy Glenn pushed around like Myles Garrett manhandled Dawkins.

 

2) I suspect people will disagree, but it did not make sense to pinch pennies with Richie given how important he was to the line.  I also suspect (and maybe I am wrong) that Richie would not be having the problems he is having if he had the structure the Bills gave him these past few years. It would have been nice to not create a hole on the left side of our line . . . especially given how important Richie was to Dion's development last year and the loss of Eric Wood.

 

3) Seantrel Henderson started at times for the Bills before his Crohn's disease issues.  As far as I can tell, we made no attempt to re-sign him.  Instead, our former Vice President of player personnel, Brian Gaine, brought him to the Houston Texans after he became GM there.  By all accounts, Seantrel is playing well for the Texans and is going to start.  I suspect that we will wonder why we did not re-sign Seantrel to play right tackle.

 

I would not start Josh Allen at QB.  That statement has more to do with the offensive line than with Josh Allen.  Allen has some talent and potential. How much, we shall see.  I would hate to destroy that potential behind this line.

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Peter

[SoTier]

6 minutes ago, PIZ said:

Is it the players or the OL coaching/scheme?

 

 

There is a serious talent issue.  Except for Dawkins, Miller, and Teller, all the others have been around awhile, and the book on them is that they're not very good.  Most are JAGs at best, but mostly career backups.  The Bills have the lowest OL payroll in the NFL, and with the OL, you usually get what you pay for.   Dawkins is a sophomore who played next to Incognito as a rookie.  Miller was decent as a rookie (2016) but lost his starting job in 2017, and Teller is a rookie taken at the end of the fifth round.

 

I'm not sure if better coaching would help but Castillo wasn't particularly good last season with more talent.

[PIZ]

Are there any decent OL available via trade or are and decent OL expected to be cut?  I still think, even though some have disagreed with me, that Beane will pick up a starting WR and a starting OL from other team's cuts.

 

 

[Peter]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

There is a serious talent issue.  Except for Dawkins, Miller, and Teller, all the others have been around awhile, and the book on them is that they're not very good.  Most are JAGs at best, but mostly career backups.  The Bills have the lowest OL payroll in the NFL, and with the OL, you usually get what you pay for.   Dawkins is a sophomore who played next to Incognito as a rookie.  Miller was decent as a rookie (2016) but lost his starting job in 2017, and Teller is a rookie taken at the end of the fifth round.

 

I'm not sure if better coaching would help but Castillo wasn't particularly good last season with more talent.

 

All true.

 

Having said that, I have no idea why McCoach did not bring back Aaron Kromer.  He was a great offensive line coach, and he was under contract and ours if we wanted him.

[PIZ]

Which teams have the best, deepest OL?  Look for the Bills to pick up their cuts?

 

Steelers, Cowboys, Eagles, Vikings?  Not sure.

[SoTier]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The Bills have a talent problem across the board. 

 

True.  It's one of the reasons why I have likened McDermott to Jauron: he believed that talent wasn't particularly important and that "work ethic" could compensate for its lack.  McDermott seems to be of that same opinion.  He's a much better coach than Jauron, but I don't like his influence in selecting personnel any more than I liked Jauron's.

[Fadingpain]

58 minutes ago, MJS said:

People are so freaking melodramatic. People calling Superbowl after game 1 because Peterman threw a TD to Benjamin. Now people think we'll go 0-8 and be fighting for the top draft pick after game 3.

 

Settle down and watch the ACTUAL games.

That's how this place is.

 

People draw definitive conclusions based on the last thing they watched in the last 5 minutes.

 

(The IQ of this board isn't that high).

[JoPar_v2]

Hey as long as the O line struggles Allen stans have a built-in excuse for his abominable play. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

Having said that, I have no idea why McCoach did not bring back Aaron Kromer.  He was a great offensive line coach, and he was under contract and ours if we wanted him.

 

 Buddy syndrome.  Castillo was McDermott's buddy from his Andy Reid/Eagles days. 

 

(Aside: In one of the strangest coaching moves with anyone, anywhere, Castillo was switched from OL coach to DC in 2011 after McDermott was fired as DC.  Politely put, it didn't work out)

 

1 hour ago, PIZ said:

Which teams have the best, deepest OL?  Look for the Bills to pick up their cuts?

Steelers, Cowboys, Eagles, Vikings?  Not sure.

 

I am having some horrible deja vu here.  2010 was it?  Our OL just sucked sucked sucked through preseason - a turnstyle would literally have made a better RT than Cornell Green - and I yearned for better OLmen to be traded for or signed as FA.  Instead we got a few scraps off the cutoff heap.  To be fair, Urbik and Pears were servicable and the line improved the following year, but still not good.

 

Anyway, I think the best we can hope for is that some servicable alternates will be found.  I don't think an OL savior will emerge like a phoenix from the scrappile of Sept 1

What really rots my socks is that you know if it were Belicheat***, he'd gut them like catfish and somehow craft a better line out of sawdust and tackling dummies, but somehow we can't.

51 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

(The IQ of this board isn't that high).

 

Do tell, Grasshopper: where were you standing when you beheld this?

[KD in CA]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

People are so freaking melodramatic. People calling Superbowl after game 1 because Peterman threw a TD to Benjamin. Now people think we'll go 0-8 and be fighting for the top draft pick after game 3.

 

Settle down and watch the ACTUAL games.

 

Oh come on....I'm fully enjoying the idiots screaming about regime change after 3 pre-season games (and a playoff year).

 

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, PIZ said:

Is it the players or the OL coaching/scheme?

 

 

Yes!

[MJS]

19 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

 

Oh come on....I'm fully enjoying the idiots screaming about regime change after 3 pre-season games (and a playoff year).

 

 

Yeah, I've mostly been cracking jokes and watching the hysteria on here since the game. It has actually been entertaining.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

How about instead of trading up to 16 to take Edmunds, the Bills stay at #22 or #23 and take Isaiah Wynn, G, and use that extra pick on a LB prospect?   If they traded up to 16, they could have taken Frank Ragnow or Billy Price (both centers).  Maybe they could have gambled and wound up still getting Edmunds at #22 or #23 and used that extra pick on an OLer. 

 

Edmunds simply isn't that outstanding a prospect to merit trading up when the Bills had already given up so much to get Allen, and had so many needs on both sides of the ball.  I thought that the Bills gave up too much to be sure that they got Allen, but the Edmunds pick really pee'd me off.  IMO, it's going to haunt the Bills for years to come.  A team can't win many games without a decent OL because even Brady can't throw TDs when he's on his back.

 

 

 

At least you provided names to discuss......

 

The answer is pretty simple.....they are biulding the Carolina defense and needed a LB that can scrape sideline to sideline and cover Tight Ends......and Edmunds was a player that was not supposed to last as long as he did with his college production, freakish size and freakish speed.....you NEED these kinds of playmakers and the fact that Edmunds is coming along slower then we would like......Edmunds is getting better by the game to me and we are gonna be thankful by mid season that we have him......to wait until the 2nd or 3rd round for that player (that you need to start immediately...who on the team is gonna start at that position?) is to take a chance and get Preston Brown at best who DOESNT fit their defensive scheme.

 

People dont like to hear this....but the fact is the team is not complete......losing Woods and Cog DID hurt us and the team is gonna have to regroup and find its identity...I still believe Groy is a excellent center...and it is hard to look good when the players playing beside you are on roller skates the whole game.

 

McD will figure it out.....

[Mark Vader]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

People are so freaking melodramatic. People calling Superbowl after game 1 because Peterman threw a TD to Benjamin. Now people think we'll go 0-8 and be fighting for the top draft pick after game 3.

 

Settle down and watch the ACTUAL games.

I agree.

 

Still, the offensive line was atrocious today. I pray that Dion Dawkins is healthy all season, because if he goes down, Marshall Newhouse is our starting Left Tackle.

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Dude you can't criticize McBeane.

 

They went 9-7 and backed into the playoffs. The statue of Beane should be finished before the season starts.

They did not back into the playoffs.

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

 

Oh come on....I'm fully enjoying the idiots screaming about regime change after 3 pre-season games (and a playoff year).

 

Exactly.

 

Remember last year's preseason?

 

People here were saying the Bills would win 2-3 games in the regular season.

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

At least you provided names to discuss......

 

The answer is pretty simple.....they are biulding the Carolina defense and needed a LB that can scrape sideline to sideline and cover Tight Ends......and Edmunds was a player that was not supposed to last as long as he did with his college production, freakish size and freakish speed.....you NEED these kinds of playmakers and the fact that Edmunds is coming along slower then we would like......Edmunds is getting better by the game to me and we are gonna be thankful by mid season that we have him......to wait until the 2nd or 3rd round for that player (that you need to start immediately...who on the team is gonna start at that position?) is to take a chance and get Preston Brown at best who DOESNT fit their defensive scheme.

 

People dont like to hear this....but the fact is the team is not complete......losing Woods and Cog DID hurt us and the team is gonna have to regroup and find its identity...I still believe Groy is a excellent center...and it is hard to look good when the players playing beside you are on roller skates the whole game.

 

McD will figure it out.....

 

I have never been an advocate of trading up in the draft because too many prospects, even high first rounders, bust or suffer career altering/ending injuries early in their careers to make it a sound draft strategy except for a very exceptional prospect, which would usually be a consensus #1 pick in the draft.   IMO, Beane spent draft picks like the proverbial drunken sailor.

[Freddie's Dead]

Let's not, and say we did.