boyst Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 10 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Has nothing to do with money they make. We all have the right to voice our opinions or protest regardless of economic status. Unless you don't believe in the constitution. But the owners have the right to control it in their private business. complicated issues deserve more consideration than simplistic knee jerk reactions This is why Trump is winning in the issue. Many believe they have the right to protest and use their free speech; which, they do off the field. Trump knows the owners and league must oblige the retarded players in order to not lose their players and the fringe groups that support their scause. However, the average fan doesn't care for it or about it. Which does not matter because corporate sponsorship must be blackmailed in to supporting players in order to avoid social revolts by the minority. Which circles back to Trump's appeal that a minority of fringe !@#$s are a controlling majority in this country due to their overwhelming desire to dissent and destroy the country. Trump wins this every time and it's a brilliant strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: This is why Trump is winning in the issue. Many believe they have the right to protest and use their free speech; which, they do off the field. Trump knows the owners and league must oblige the retarded players in order to not lose their players and the fringe groups that support their scause. However, the average fan doesn't care for it or about it. Which does not matter because corporate sponsorship must be blackmailed in to supporting players in order to avoid social revolts by the minority. Which circles back to Trump's appeal that a minority of fringe !@#$s are a controlling majority in this country due to their overwhelming desire to dissent and destroy the country. Trump wins this every time and it's a brilliant strategy. They have the right to also protest on the field if the owners of the business they work for allows it. Not saying it's necessarily correct but it is what it is. Trump has done a brilliant job in one sense on this. On the other it's a sad commentary of society when we continually separate the citizenry instead of unite them. I agree with your point about fringe elements on both sides screwing up the country. At some point the 80% in the middle will take the country back. In the meantime, while I would rather all players stand, I understand why some are protesting, I understand it's only a very small number, I understand their reasons even though I don't necessarily agree, I understand it's not about our military even though some think it is, I understand those who have served have differing views, and when I'm at a game I will stand and remove my hat out of my respect for a country that allows people who may have differing views from me to express them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 7 hours ago, Paulus said: Honestly, this whole issue is much ado, IMO. That said, Trump is not going to come out looking stupid for standing up for our country against the spoiled & ignorant Dude, Trump is spoiled and totally ignorant. When has he ever explained a policy issue or action he has taken thoughtfully? Never, he is all hot, ignorant air. A low information voter who was elected president. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: They have the right to also protest on the field if the owners of the business they work for allows it. Not saying it's necessarily correct but it is what it is. Trump has done a brilliant job in one sense on this. On the other it's a sad commentary of society when we continually separate the citizenry instead of unite them. I agree with your point about fringe elements on both sides screwing up the country. At some point the 80% in the middle will take the country back. In the meantime, while I would rather all players stand, I understand why some are protesting, I understand it's only a very small number, I understand their reasons even though I don't necessarily agree, I understand it's not about our military even though some think it is, I understand those who have served have differing views, and when I'm at a game I will stand and remove my hat out of my respect for a country that allows people who may have differing views from me to express them. How do you unite with someone on this topic? One side says that they won't stand in support of a country that oppresses them. The other side says that they aren't oppressed, but rather are millionaires afforded the opportunity to pursue their hopes and dreams in a country that doesn't care what color your skin is, and are being disrespectful towards the ideas and ideals of the freedoms which provide them those opportunities, and the men and women who serve to protect them. There is no reconciling these two positions. There is no compromise, as this ultimately breaks down as a fight between freedom, liberty, and republicanism and Marxism and the implementation of thought crimes. The reality is that our nation is at a turning point, and this is a fight which needs to be fought and won by one side or the other. Were are deciding, right now, how the next several centuries will be lived here in America. Edited August 13, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 The only questions i have are why a thinking adult that isn't on her payroll would 1) be reduced to tears over Hillary losing 2) think that Hillary winning would have brought Heaven to earth in the most blissful Utopia and 3) Why things are bad right now, if you have to work for a living and aren't perpetually rich or broke-ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: How do you unite with someone on this topic? One side says that they won't stand in support of a country that oppresses them. The other side says that they aren't oppressed, but rather are millionaires afforded the opportunity to pursue their hopes and dreams in a country that doesn't care what color your skin is, and are being disrespectful towards the ideas and ideals of the freedoms which provide them those opportunities, and the men and women who serve to protect them. There is no reconciling these two positions. There is no compromise, as this ultimately breaks down as a fight between freedom, liberty, and republicanism and Marxism and the implementation of thought crimes. The reality is that our nation is at a turning point, and this is a fight which needs to be fought and won by one side or the other. Were are deciding, right now, how the next several centuries will be lived here in America. What we have right now is excessive polarization in society, and this issue is a reflection of that. At some point the 80% in the middle will have to take the country back, and it will likely take some kind of dramatic event, like a depression or nuclear event or something, to have that happen. The word compromise has been lost in our political and social systems. And that's dangerous. Taking these protests as an example, law enforcement is something as an Independent that I lean very much towards the conservative side on. I am strongly behind our law enforcement men and women who put themselves on the line every day. I would say to those who protest against police brutality to first look at yourself and don't commit crimes in the first place. But I also respect those who might have a different view because of their personal history or experiences and while I disagree with the idea of not standing, I get that you may feel differently and feel the need to protest. Doesn't mean I'll agree. Neither of the political extremes have all the answers, our country cannot be governed from the extremes, and that will ultimately have to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Just now, oldmanfan said: What we have right now is excessive polarization in society, and this issue is a reflection of that. At some point the 80% in the middle will have to take the country back, and it will likely take some kind of dramatic event, like a depression or nuclear event or something, to have that happen. The word compromise has been lost in our political and social systems. And that's dangerous. Taking these protests as an example, law enforcement is something as an Independent that I lean very much towards the conservative side on. I am strongly behind our law enforcement men and women who put themselves on the line every day. I would say to those who protest against police brutality to first look at yourself and don't commit crimes in the first place. But I also respect those who might have a different view because of their personal history or experiences and while I disagree with the idea of not standing, I get that you may feel differently and feel the need to protest. Doesn't mean I'll agree. Neither of the political extremes have all the answers, our country cannot be governed from the extremes, and that will ultimately have to change. There is nothing extreme about saying "You aren't oppressed, but rather are millionaires afforded the opportunity to pursue your hopes and dreams in a country that doesn't care what color your skin is, and are being disrespectful towards the ideas and ideals of the freedoms which provide you those opportunities, and the men and women who serve to protect them. " What policy concession would be advisable to someone who argues otherwise? What they are advocating for is equality of outcome. This is completely incompatible with a free society. Concession to this point requires the introduction of a Marxist state, which is an extreme position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 when i see the numbers of those who the TV parades as protestors, i write the numbers down and make a wish for them to tear their knees a few last year did it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: They have the right to also protest on the field if the owners of the business they work for allows it. Not saying it's necessarily correct but it is what it is. Trump has done a brilliant job in one sense on this. On the other it's a sad commentary of society when we continually separate the citizenry instead of unite them. I agree with your point about fringe elements on both sides screwing up the country. At some point the 80% in the middle will take the country back. In the meantime, while I would rather all players stand, I understand why some are protesting, I understand it's only a very small number, I understand their reasons even though I don't necessarily agree, I understand it's not about our military even though some think it is, I understand those who have served have differing views, and when I'm at a game I will stand and remove my hat out of my respect for a country that allows people who may have differing views from me to express them. I see as an old man fan you have used those years to form absolutely no real opinion on anything. Your equivocation skills are well developed. I once nicknamed a poster here, Yes,but because every situation for him was colored grey. Don't be a Yes,but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I see as an old man fan you have used those years to form absolutely no real opinion on anything. Your equivocation skills are well developed. I once nicknamed a poster here, Yes,but because every situation for him was colored grey. Don't be a Yes,but. sad eh, boomers with brains didn't develop them one iota beyond pissing around for a lazy degree and pointless job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said: There is nothing extreme about saying "You aren't oppressed, but rather are millionaires afforded the opportunity to pursue your hopes and dreams in a country that doesn't care what color your skin is, and are being disrespectful towards the ideas and ideals of the freedoms which provide you those opportunities, and the men and women who serve to protect them. " What policy concession would be advisable to someone who argues otherwise? What they are advocating for is equality of outcome. This is completely incompatible with a free society. Concession to this point requires the introduction of a Marxist state, which is an extreme position. They are not protesting about their own treatment, rather less economically fortunate individuals of the same race. I agree there should not be equality of economic outcome. But I would say everyone is entitles to equal protection under the law, and they are protesting that it is not the case. I don't necessarily agree, but I do try to see it from their perspective. If we are not going to even try to see things from the other's perspective, we can advance nowhere. 18 minutes ago, row_33 said: sad eh, boomers with brains didn't develop them one iota beyond pissing around for a lazy degree and pointless job. I think the patients I see and help every day would argue my job isn't pointless, and they sure as hell would say the 70 some hours a week I'm here for them isn't lazy. Your kind of sweeping generalizations are pointless and dumb. And to reiterate, I am in favor of having the players stand. But I try to see other side's points of view as well. 27 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I see as an old man fan you have used those years to form absolutely no real opinion on anything. Your equivocation skills are well developed. I once nicknamed a poster here, Yes,but because every situation for him was colored grey. Don't be a Yes,but. I absolutely have an opinion. I think they should stand. being able to consider the other side of an argument doesn't mean you don't have an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Birdog1960, I think Trump should take a dump in each player's jock who doesn't stand for the National Anthem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 24 minutes ago, Nanker said: Birdog1960, I think Trump should take a dump in each player's jock who doesn't stand for the National Anthem. I was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said: I was thinking the same thing. IcyHot will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, row_33 said: IcyHot will do I was referring to the identity of the poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 On 8/13/2018 at 6:28 AM, Tiberius said: Dude, Trump is spoiled and totally ignorant. When has he ever explained a policy issue or action he has taken thoughtfully? Never, he is all hot, ignorant air. A low information voter who was elected president. I really don't care to debate that. If we stand to show respect, actively and purposefully doing something completely in difiance of the respect is dis(the opposite of)respect. Those kneeling are ignorant moo-cows. That said, being indifferent, like Shady did last year, is perfectly fine, as it is neither a show of respect or active disrespect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Baffles me how anyone still cares about either side of this issue. I go to a game, take off my hat and make sure my kid does. Put my hand over my heart. Sing the anthem. Get a little teary each time. Aaaaaand, I still don't care that they are kneeling, Aaaaaand, I don't care that Trump is tweeting about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 1 minute ago, BeginnersMind said: Baffles me how anyone still cares about either side of this issue. I go to a game, take off my hat and make sure my kid does. Put my hand over my heart. Sing the anthem. Get a little teary each time. Aaaaaand, I still don't care that they are kneeling, Aaaaaand, I don't care that Trump is tweeting about it. You're really baffled by it? Baffled?? I'm baffled that anyone could be baffled by a polarizing issue designed to be a polarizing issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 On August 10, 2018 at 8:58 AM, Teddy KGB said: What other workers put on their uniform, clock in, then protest ? Antifa 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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