MarkyMannn Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 When there's in imbalance of incoming and outgoing tax revenues there's bound to be a real problem. The idiots running WNY have been sticking their heads in the sand for 30+ years. In WNY, the vast majority of people fall into these main categories: 1. Those who receive their paychecks from government (educators, municipal, law enforcement, parks, DOT, etc) 2. Low wage earners (under $10/hour) 3. Sustained though goverment subsidized entitlement programs (welfare, SSI, food stamps, etc) 4. retirees (often living off savings and SS and many contributing to the economies of Florida or Arizona for half the year) There are, of course, business owners, utility workers, professionals, and others, but there's a huge imbalance in comparison to the group mentioned above. A healthy economic environment has a much stronger middle class that includes manufacturing, multiple services, retail, and other industries. The Buffalo area has no Fortune 500 companies or other large corporations with headquarters based in WNY that can bring money in from around the country. Buffalo is one of the few metro areas that has the worst of both worlds - high taxes and low wages. A deadly combination if ever there was one. A huge number of young people entering the work force leave WNY when they hear of the opportunity and wages that can found if they leave for Flroida, Georgia, Carolinas, etc. Do the math. Who's gonna be left to pay the freight? Just keep going with high taxes and increased union demands. Been working great. 278141[/snapback] Great post DML. What are loking at next year for a property tax increase? I'm hearing 40%. And the civil service and teacher unions don't get it yet. They are still looking to bleed the area to get whatever they can. No view of the future, just get my $$$ now. Some local teachers are having "informational pickets" right now. Their signs say "I'm under paid and deserve more" BS!!!!! Phil Rumore of the Buffalo Teachers is the worst thing to happen to this area. The guy gives nothing for education quality, just pay me more. Of course if I was a teacher I would probably love the guy.
MarkyMannn Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 Guys, it just got a lot worse. "Budget woes mean BYOTP in Buffalo" is one of the headlines on the front page of cnn.com. 278330[/snapback] The only floor without supplies was the floor where the office of County Exec Giambra was. Some janitor's form of protest
Mark VI Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 I received this from a friend who is involved with NMG, and am very encouraged by it: 'I apologize for the lapse of time between our emails. I completely forgot about our previous discussion until I saw an NYCBBB email the other day. Anyways, I would like to add some follow up to our discussions concerning the fiscal turmoil here in Buffalo/Erie County. I understand that living away from this area it is hard to fully grasp the news that is occurring here. I would like to assure you - contrary to what you might have heard - things aren't as bad as they may seem. In fact they're the best they've been in many years. The course that this community is currently taking, in response to our fiscal crises, is the best course that we can possibly take. Honestly, given the severity of our situation, I couldn't have asked for a better outcome - so far. Our community impressively lashed out against our elected officials - a 'taxpayer revolt' as we're now referring to it - preventing them from raising our taxes one bit while forcing them to drastically reduce the size of government (especially pork and patronage). Given the history of this area, this was a momentous achievement. Something that I was very proud to be apart of. Regardless of how you look at it, the biggest problem that is oppressing the Buffalo Niagara region is GOVERNMENT and it's government on all levels. Obviously when you live in the state with the most inept and dysfunctional government in the nation, there is naturally going to be problems beyond your direct control. However, when your local governments - something that is within your direct control - aren't much better, there is no excuse. There was a lot of hype about how devastating the county cuts would be (once again, they had to occur) to this community. Of course little of that played out to be true. A scare tactic by our frightened elected officials. We were supposed to see 3,000+ jobs terminated. In reality 1,900 positions ended up being cut, which included 700 vacant positions, tototalingnly 1,200 actually people. We were told to "lock our doors" by the Erie County District Attorney in response to the devastating cutbacks to public safety. Instead only 10 out of 93 Assistant DAs are being cut along with a minimal reduction in rural road patrols by the sheriff. Plus countless more examples. Ultimately, I have to admit that this is a heroic account of this community rising up at a grassroots level and influencing the direction that this area is taking. I am ecstatic that this is receiving such prominent national publicity. The overwhelming majority of this community understands that county government is far too large in proportion to our declining population and with a tax increase (regardless of the form) all future attempts to stimulate economic growth will be futile. After all, there is no fair and equitable tax in an economically stagnant region that is already highly taxed. This community (most of us at least) understands that Medicaid is a dire problem - so dire that my anger inhibits my ability to articulate myself properly - yet we still need to improve our fiscal situation with the conditions that we do have control over. That being said, Erie County has a phenomenal level of services, far greater than most of the Sun Belt regions that are experiencing outstanding economic prosperity. We have most of our services because we want them, not because we need them. Ultimately, this county will still drive on successfully without those services that are being cut. Prospective outside investors care more about dollars and cents than 52 library branches and satellite DMV offices. Our biggest fault was not gradually reducing the size of county government (through cuts in services and reductions in staff) after our great victory in cutting property taxes thirty percent five years ago. We are now learning our lesson the hard way for that. Even through all our efforts, unfunded mandates will continue to scar us (part of the curse of existing in New York State) but that is not an excuse to not follow proper diligence in making sure that our local governments are the most effective and efficient they can possibly be. Also, there is absolutely no possibility whatsoever that our beloved Bills will depart as a result of this budget crisis. None. A few politicians and, of course, the media played out some yellow journalism - but that was the extent of it. What it boiled down to was a few county legislatures very foolishly asked the Bills if they could fore go Erie County's payment to the Bills used for mmaintenanceat the Ralph as dictated by the 1998 lease agreement. That was about the it. The Bills are not going to leave Buffalo because of this as some might want others to believe. I'm sure the Bills aren't happy about being asked this question but keep in mind, the legislatures asked, not told, the Bills this. The Bills are going to say no and the llegislaturewill find other ways to save money and we should have the Bills until at least 2012. I respectfully ask our local officials to continue with the course that we are taking by continuing to reduce the size of county government (in the most prudent and responsible way possible) while avoiding all tax and fee increase without exception. Hopefully they will follow suit. Change is not going to be easy in this community. If it was than we would have it by now. Yet it is necessary. We have to crash and burn before we can really reverse our course and there is nothing wrong with that. The bloody battles must be fought now on the front lines so we can ensure a pprosperityin the future for this great community. Well I just wanted to vent and let you understand the perspective of 75% of us (Bflo News poll) in this community. Things are working out. It will just take some time and some pain. I hope I wasn't to emotional. AAfter allthis political stuff is my kind of thing. I look forward to hearing from you.' 277892[/snapback] That view is spot on . It's great watching our 6 o'clock news. The politicians are getting absolutely blasted. They try to blame others and wind up getting crushed by the reporters, who will hear none of it. They are in complete shock that the people actually are rising up against them and not swallowing the crap anymore. It's the best thing that ever happened. All the local politicians have been reduced to crap throwing monkeys on camera. Their political careers are all going up in smoke. Bye bye incumbents. The gravy train is making it's last stop.
SouthernMan Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 Bye bye incumbents. The gravy train is making it's last stop. 278560[/snapback] Well no, not exactly. This is thing I'll never understand about the predominantly liberal/democratic areas. The constituency has been voting for the same incompetant and/or crooked politicians for years. Every election they get the same empty promises and get the same results year after year. There's also plenty of arm twisting by the unions. When will they get it?!?!? They need some people in place who can see the big picture and can come up with a plan that's realistic and workable. It starts with lowering taxes. Let's see.....the blue states where liberals rule are overtaxed and in fiscal chaos. California, New York, Mass., etc. The red states (like Georgia) have bustling economies. Hmmmmm. I wonder who has a better plan in place?
rastabillz Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 Well no, not exactly. This is thing I'll never understand about the predominantly liberal/democratic areas. The constituency has been voting for the same incompetant and/or crooked politicians for years. Every election they get the same empty promises and get the same results year after year. There's also plenty of arm twisting by the unions. When will they get it?!?!? They need some people in place who can see the big picture and can come up with a plan that's realistic and workable. It starts with lowering taxes. Let's see.....the blue states where liberals rule are overtaxed and in fiscal chaos. California, New York, Mass., etc. The red states (like Georgia) have bustling economies. Hmmmmm. I wonder who has a better plan in place? 278592[/snapback] Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Erie County executive a Republican? How about the county comptroler??? Sounds like a big "liberal" problem to me.
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 How far to go until we hit rock bottom? 277871[/snapback] Once you get the gallows erected in Niagara Square, things will prolly be looking up.
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 Well no, not exactly. This is thing I'll never understand about the predominantly liberal/democratic areas. The constituency has been voting for the same incompetant and/or crooked politicians for years. Every election they get the same empty promises and get the same results year after year. There's also plenty of arm twisting by the unions. When will they get it?!?!? They need some people in place who can see the big picture and can come up with a plan that's realistic and workable. It starts with lowering taxes. Let's see.....the blue states where liberals rule are overtaxed and in fiscal chaos. California, New York, Mass., etc. The red states (like Georgia) have bustling economies. Hmmmmm. I wonder who has a better plan in place? 278592[/snapback] It is the incumbents.....damned be the political party.....look at that clown Dale Volker......he still has a crew cut, that is how long that pig at the trough bastard has been in office. Get rid of every a-hole minus Higgins up there. Get them all out. Party be damned, dump all the incumbents.
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Erie County executive a Republican? How about the county comptroler??? Sounds like a big "liberal" problem to me. 278602[/snapback] They were originally Democrats who changed parties. Even Buffalo politicians don't know what political party they are really afilliated with.
Tcali Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 That view is spot on . It's great watching our 6 o'clock news. The politicians are getting absolutely blasted. They try to blame others and wind up getting crushed by the reporters, who will hear none of it. They are in complete shock that the people actually are rising up against them and not swallowing the crap anymore. It's the best thing that ever happened. All the local politicians have been reduced to crap throwing monkeys on camera. Their political careers are all going up in smoke. Bye bye incumbents. The gravy train is making it's last stop. 278560[/snapback] Great post Markvi---I look forward to getting back to buffalo someday---but was really shocked when doing some home shopping last spring. I mean---great houses for cheap----UNTIL YOU LOOK AT THE TAX BILL!!!---oh my gosh....you cant really buy an expensive house in amherst. $500,000 house-= 23,000 /year in taxes????huhh???????? geeeeeeeezzzzz. It is a wonderful thing that these clown politicians from erie county are finally getting seen as crap throwinh monkeys.
Alaska Darin Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 The true test is the next election. If another 95% of incumbents end up in office, the net effect is the same as it's always been.
Tom Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 I live in metro Atlanta. We have huge offices and headquarters for Coke, Home Depot, Lockheed Martin, Hewlett Packard, Scientific Atlanta, UPS, Cingular, Delta, Air Tran, IBM, etc etc etc Sorry but IBM is NOT based in @lanta...... Minor point I know but ..................
Tcali Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 Sorry but IBM is NOT based in @lanta......Minor point I know but .................. 278820[/snapback] AND--Atlanta is an overcrowded mess of a traffic jam ...It sbetter to live in Buffalo if you can find a job.
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 http://www.syracuse.com/newsflash/regional...ml&storylist=ny "After hearing a cash crunch was squeezing restroom supplies in the county's main office building, Procter & Gamble offered a truckload of Charmin's "MegaRolls" at no charge. County Executive Joel Giambra said before accepting, he has to be sure the rolls will fit into the building's dispensers."
BillsNYC Posted March 18, 2005 Author Posted March 18, 2005 Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Erie County executive a Republican? How about the county comptroler??? Sounds like a big "liberal" problem to me. 278602[/snapback] He was a democrat who became a Republican for this election. He has gone against everything he campaigned for and the Republicans hate him for it. Basically, a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Gavin in Va Beach Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 He was a democrat who became a Republican for this election. He has gone against everything he campaigned for and the Republicans hate him for it. Basically, a wolf in sheep's clothing. 279402[/snapback] They're called RINO's (Republican In Name Only). Quite a few of them in Congress too...
BillsNYC Posted March 18, 2005 Author Posted March 18, 2005 They're called RINO's (Republican In Name Only). Quite a few of them in Congress too... 279408[/snapback] Also Mike Bloomberg, Mayor of NYC.
SouthernMan Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 Sorry but IBM is NOT based in @lanta......Minor point I know but .................. 278820[/snapback] I said "huge offices and headquarters for" ......etc Maybe I should have clarified by saying "or" rather than "and". There were a couple of others I mentioned they may not be headquartered in Atlanta, but they still employ thousands of workers. Certainly a lot more than Rich Products, Bass Pro Shop, or anything Adelphia had planned for the area - all of which were or are viewed as some great light at the end of the tunnel. In response to the other post ....Yes, Atlanta traffic blows for many. Atlanta is very spread out and not nearly as convenient as Buffalo for getting places. We've managed to work around it by locating closer to our offices, working out of the home, and using flex time. Buffalo has a lot of upside and could be a gold mine for many in the right situation. Unfortunately, the political and economic landscape makes it very difficult for the average Joe Lunchbucket type to have the things our parents had. Back in their day, a postman or warehouse worker could support a family and still have cash for entertainment or fun things. They might not have had much, but at least they weren't resigned to a life of living in their parents basement. Today a worker in the same job situation would be hoping to scrape together enough coin to keep the rusted jalopy insured and in good running condition. It shouldn't be so difficult to have a job where you can save some money, buy a car, buy a house, have a couple of kids, and take a vacation once in while. This scenerio is almost impossible in Buffalo for the less than college educated guy and gal who want a typical, average, Amercian lifestyle. And so many of the ones with a college education quickly discover that they can make a whole lot more money and have better advancement in other markets where there is actually competition for their services and talent. These are the ones most likely to leave for greener pastures. A huge number of them leave and never contribute to the local economy other than to visit family and take in a Bills game once a year. All that's left are a bunch of low wage earners and others subsidized by the government. How much would a guy need to make in WNY who has a stay at home wife, two kids, a mortgage, and at least 1 car payment? This is not some dream - it's a description of how things used to be. Could he and the family get by on $2000/month for food, clothing, taxes/mortgage/insurance, auto upkeep, gifts, healthcare, etc. He'd have to be making AT LEAST $35,000/year gross or about $17/hour. How many jobs are there in Buffalo for the average working stiff that are paying a minimum of $17/hour and have health care benefits? Not many. The sad part is that people who have lived their entire lives in Buffalo don't even realize there's a whole other world outside of WNY full of opportunity for anyone willing to take advantage of it. They think every place is like Buffalo. It's not. I didn't have a higher education and couldn't find a job paying much more than minimum wage. That was 20 years ago in Buffalo. I decided to get eh hell out when I heard how well my friends in Atlanta were doing. Nothing has changed in WNY. If anything, I think it's gotten worse. Most of the people I talk to "back home" are still struggling, living paycheck to paycheck, occupying the same barstool at eh local gin mills. Meanwhile, here in Atlanta, I've been blessed with many great opportunities I never would have had staying in Buffalo. Has it gotten bad in Buffalo. Yep. And getting worse all the time.
Marv's Neighbor Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/a...rty_bathrooms_1 277861[/snapback] They let them do that on County time????
Tcali Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 I said "huge offices and headquarters for" ......etcMaybe I should have clarified by saying "or" rather than "and". There were a couple of others I mentioned they may not be headquartered in Atlanta, but they still employ thousands of workers. Certainly a lot more than Rich Products, Bass Pro Shop, or anything Adelphia had planned for the area - all of which were or are viewed as some great light at the end of the tunnel. In response to the other post ....Yes, Atlanta traffic blows for many. Atlanta is very spread out and not nearly as convenient as Buffalo for getting places. We've managed to work around it by locating closer to our offices, working out of the home, and using flex time. Buffalo has a lot of upside and could be a gold mine for many in the right situation. Unfortunately, the political and economic landscape makes it very difficult for the average Joe Lunchbucket type to have the things our parents had. Back in their day, a postman or warehouse worker could support a family and still have cash for entertainment or fun things. They might not have had much, but at least they weren't resigned to a life of living in their parents basement. Today a worker in the same job situation would be hoping to scrape together enough coin to keep the rusted jalopy insured and in good running condition. It shouldn't be so difficult to have a job where you can save some money, buy a car, buy a house, have a couple of kids, and take a vacation once in while. This scenerio is almost impossible in Buffalo for the less than college educated guy and gal who want a typical, average, Amercian lifestyle. And so many of the ones with a college education quickly discover that they can make a whole lot more money and have better advancement in other markets where there is actually competition for their services and talent. These are the ones most likely to leave for greener pastures. A huge number of them leave and never contribute to the local economy other than to visit family and take in a Bills game once a year. All that's left are a bunch of low wage earners and others subsidized by the government. How much would a guy need to make in WNY who has a stay at home wife, two kids, a mortgage, and at least 1 car payment? This is not some dream - it's a description of how things used to be. Could he and the family get by on $2000/month for food, clothing, taxes/mortgage/insurance, auto upkeep, gifts, healthcare, etc. He'd have to be making AT LEAST $35,000/year gross or about $17/hour. How many jobs are there in Buffalo for the average working stiff that are paying a minimum of $17/hour and have health care benefits? Not many. The sad part is that people who have lived their entire lives in Buffalo don't even realize there's a whole other world outside of WNY full of opportunity for anyone willing to take advantage of it. They think every place is like Buffalo. It's not. I didn't have a higher education and couldn't find a job paying much more than minimum wage. That was 20 years ago in Buffalo. I decided to get eh hell out when I heard how well my friends in Atlanta were doing. Nothing has changed in WNY. If anything, I think it's gotten worse. Most of the people I talk to "back home" are still struggling, living paycheck to paycheck, occupying the same barstool at eh local gin mills. Meanwhile, here in Atlanta, I've been blessed with many great opportunities I never would have had staying in Buffalo. Has it gotten bad in Buffalo. Yep. And getting worse all the time. 279605[/snapback] Thanx for the post DML..informative....-but I'll tell ya--if you have a good job in Buffalo you live very very well..its getting the good job that is trhe issue of course.Out here in california things are not a picnic--thats for sure.-Luckily I invested in some real estate---but I wpuldnt wanna be a californian n who does not own any real estate here. You need to make 100,000 minimum just to reasonably afford a decent place now--and thats not even in the large metro areas except for maybe sacramento.--OF COURSE---property taxes due to prop 13 are LOWWWW---but--they di nickel and dime you with other little taxes----and if you have kids in school--even in public school--you often need to help them raise money in order for the programs/education level to be decent.
SouthernMan Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 Thanx for the post DML..informative....-but I'll tell ya--if you have a good job in Buffalo you live very very well..its getting the good job that is trhe issue of course.Out here in california things are not a picnic--thats for sure.-Luckily I invested in some real estate---but I wpuldnt wanna be a californian n who does not own any real estate here. You need to make 100,000 minimum just to reasonably afford a decent place now--and thats not even in the large metro areas except for maybe sacramento.--OF COURSE---property taxes due to prop 13 are LOWWWW---but--they di nickel and dime you with other little taxes----and if you have kids in school--even in public school--you often need to help them raise money in order for the programs/education level to be decent. 279840[/snapback] You're right. Buffalo is a place of the haves and have nots. The point of my post was that you can't have good economic health without balance from all different economic and social input. I'm sure that somewhere there's a pyramid model showing the ideal balance, and I'm also sure that in WNY, it's all out of whack. Real Estate has been relatively low priced in suburban Atlanta - at least compared to a lot of California, DC 'burbs, NY, Boston. It's just now starting to take off in the areas beyond the city. I've noticed a lot of new subdivisions going up around here, and very few have homes starting at less than $500K. Many are in the $600K-800K range. I believe this is a result of two things - less land available, but also, there are a lot of refugees from the areas mentionsed above who come here after selling their little $600,000 crackerbox in Sacramento, and can buy a tricked out 4,800 SqFt home with hardwood floors, granite coutnertops, and coffered ceilings, full basement, and a bathroom for every kid. We just put an offer in on a $325,000 house, knowing that it should appreciate substantially over the next few years. At that time, we'll take our gains and down-size into one the empty-nester "cottage style" developments that will be going up like crazy in the next few years. Either that or we can retire in Buffalo and buy a nice home (that has hardly appreciated) with cash. Probably be able to get a decent place in Amherst for under $200K and still have money left over for a seasonal plowing contract. Who knows? By then, they may be auctioning off Ralph Wilson Stadium.
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