Bills trade with Browns for Corey Coleman

[Shaw66]

37 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Your explanation and statistical analysis of the two simply do not add up and it's not hard to say that at all:

 

Watkins' 1st two season with Buffalo  - 125 catches (224 targets) for 2000+ yards with 15 TDs in 29 games

 

 

Coleman's two seasons with Cleveland  - 56 catches (131 targets) for 718 yards with 5 TDs in 19 games

 

 

Nice math.   

 

Sammy played 29 games, Corey 19. so you'd expect Sammy would have more catches, more targets and more yards.   That's why I did the averages, per game.   Sammy was targeted a little more than Corey, but only a little more.   So Sammy wasn't used more as a receiver than Corey was.   Sammy had more catches per game because, as I said, his completions per target were much better than Corey's.   That's the only difference in their stats; everything flows from that.   If Corey had caught the same percentage as Sammy, then they'd have very comparable per-game stats.  

 

So what's the difference?   Some combination of two factors - (1) Sammy has better hands, which almost certainly is true and (2) Sammy had a better QB throwing to him, which probably is true.   Someone posted earlier that LAST season, Corey was #3 in uncatchable balls thrown his way, so at least last season, some of Corey's lousy catch percentage was attributable to the QB, not Corey.  

 

Don't get me wrong.   I was among the biggest Sammy homers, he has special skills.    And I don't know anything about Corey Coleman.   I'm not saying Corey has the same potential as Sammy.   However, over four seasons now, Sammy hasn't reached his potential.   

 

Wait and see.   The Bills wouldn't have traded for Coleman if they didn't think they could make something of him; McBeane don't usually go looking for projects.   Coleman has the fundamental skills, and we'll see what McDermott can do with them.  If Coleman reaches his potential, Bills will have made a great deal. 

[BillsFan4]

Here’s some context  -

 

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/08/browns_trading_corey_coleman_t.html

 

Quote

On New Year's Eve in 2016, Coleman was with his brother Jonathan Coleman and his roommate Jared Floyd when Jonathan and Floyd allegedly beat Adam Sapp and left his unconscious body on a speed bump in the garage of Coleman's apartment. Jonathan's trial ended in a hung jury, but Floyd pleaded guilty to felonious assault.

 

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

It's just an observation.   

 

I looked at the data a little more carefully.   The two (Sammy in Buffalo and Corey in Cleveland) were targeted about the same.   Corey a little less, but about the same.  

 

But Corey caught the ball a lot less often than Sammy.   Sammy caught it 55% of his targets, Corey only 43%.  That's a big difference.   That difference accounts for the differences between them in yards per catch, yards per game, etc.   

 

So the question is why did Corey catch the ball so much less than Sammy?   One explanation would be Corey's hands, which apparently are suspect.   Another explanation would be the quarterbacks.   In 2016, Corey had McCown, RGII and Cody Kessler throwing to him; in 2017 it was DsShone Kizer.  Sammy had EJ and Orton for one season, and Taylor for two.  So it's quite possible that Corey's lower completion percentage was related to the QB play he was getting.  Taylor, at least, was much better than the quarterbacks Coleman had.

 

So, based on the stats, it's hard to say that Watkins contributed more to the Bills than Coleman contributed to the Browns.

 

Sammy is one of the most talented receivers around, but he's never made anything of it.  

 

If I have to have an underperforming wideout, I'd rather have one that cost me a seventh round pick instead of one that cost me two firsts.    

 

 

Shaw,  there is video from a tweet from Joe_Burns (?) earlier in this thread and it is rather telling to the extent of 19 throws shown over two games.

 

Needless to say the word “target” is not a fair way to describe what was going on with those throws to Corey.

 

doesn’t excuse everything, but does give some safe harbor on some of his reception history.

[Beast]

2 hours ago, Foreigner said:

I know the truth hurts, but some people just can't handle it.

 

What do you mean by this?

 

What is the response you are looking for? You want us all to drive down to 1 Bills Dr., and demand Beane and McDermott be fired, Coleman cut and the Pegula’s to sell the team for running such a lawless outfit?

 

I’m not quite sure what you mean by people just can’t handle the truth. Like we should all hang our heads in shame because Coleman was named in a police report and was late for something when he was injured?

 

Honestly, are you for real? You seem a bit queer. (Weird for the PC crowd)

Edited August 6, 2018 by Binghamton Beast

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

What this team needs is a no nonsense, tough on the players, high character only Head Coach.

I hear Rex Ryan is available.

 

I hear that the high character chior boy Foreigner is available too. And he can even steer the ship from the comfort of his mom's basement!!! 

[John from Riverside]

14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Nice math.   

 

Sammy played 29 games, Corey 19. so you'd expect Sammy would have more catches, more targets and more yards.   That's why I did the averages, per game.   Sammy was targeted a little more than Corey, but only a little more.   So Sammy wasn't used more as a receiver than Corey was.   Sammy had more catches per game because, as I said, his completions per target were much better than Corey's.   That's the only difference in their stats; everything flows from that.   If Corey had caught the same percentage as Sammy, then they'd have very comparable per-game stats.  

 

So what's the difference?   Some combination of two factors - (1) Sammy has better hands, which almost certainly is true and (2) Sammy had a better QB throwing to him, which probably is true.   Someone posted earlier that LAST season, Corey was #3 in uncatchable balls thrown his way, so at least last season, some of Corey's lousy catch percentage was attributable to the QB, not Corey.  

 

Don't get me wrong.   I was among the biggest Sammy homers, he has special skills.    And I don't know anything about Corey Coleman.   I'm not saying Corey has the same potential as Sammy.   However, over four seasons now, Sammy hasn't reached his potential.   

 

Wait and see.   The Bills wouldn't have traded for Coleman if they didn't think they could make something of him; McBeane don't usually go looking for projects.   Coleman has the fundamental skills, and we'll see what McDermott can do with them.  If Coleman reaches his potential, Bills will have made a great deal. 

I think one of the big factor's here is the compensation.......

 

If all Colemen did was go out there and run fly pattern's every down drawing safeties out of the box he would EASILY be worth a 7th round pick and 1.2 million dollars......

[Just Jack]

3 hours ago, Foreigner said:

We are changing the culture. With Zay Jones and Coleman on the field as WRs (insert your own joke here)

 

we will have a team of young men that made mistakes and are turning their lives around. 

[ChasBB]

33 minutes ago, OCinBuffalo said:

What a joke price. So we gave up what amounts to an 8th round draft pick(based on valuation of 2 years away picks) for this guy. Perhaps we should send Cleveland some wings too.

Beane looks to be a shrewd negotiator.  I have to think that if the GM roles were reversed and Beane was representing the Browns that he would have added a clause to make it a higher draft pick in the event that Coleman actually plays like a 1st round draft pick in 2018 (like he did Marcell Dareus -- getting a 5th rounder from the Jags instead of a 6th if the Jags made the playoffs with Dareus contributing).  Total steal by Buffalo.  Hope it works out.

[JMF2006]

1 hour ago, 1st&ten said:

Well, they're taking a chance on him. If he doesn't buy in & becomes a problem, they'll cut him.

 

No we trade him back to the Browns for a 209 3rd rnd  

21 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Here’s some context  -

 

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/08/browns_trading_corey_coleman_t.html

 

 

 

 

Her is hoping he can beat division DB's that bad  

1 hour ago, Fadingpain said:

He comes from a Dallas shithole environment and his father is in jail for cocaine trafficking.

 

I would imagine this kid as "at risk" for getting in trouble at all times.

 

Hopefully he stays out of it.

 

 

 

So he has that "get away from the cops speed"  

[Augie]

4 hours ago, KGun12TD said:

 

YES! I moved down to Florida and I've been watching more football than I did in NYC. I even go to the Bills Backers of Brandon in Central Florida. Also, I watch so much College Football. My wife is not a happy camper from August to February.

 

Depending upon which direction you are coming from, you may want to try Casa Di Pizza near I-75 off of University Pkwy not too far south of Brandon. WNY folks with Bills/Sabres focus and the best pizza I’ve had outside of WNY.  (We lived in Sarasota for 18+ years.) 

[SoTier]

Maybe beating the crap out of some guy is how Coleman broke his hand not once, but twice ... 

[Beast]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Maybe beating the crap out of some guy is how Coleman broke his hand not once, but twice ... 

 

Yeah, maybe.

 

 

[Commish]

2016 highlight reel:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2adMizhNto

[JMF2006]

7 minutes ago, Roch-A-Bill said:

2016 highlight reel:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2adMizhNto

 

 

For a little guy he sure isn't afraid to go over the middle.

 

I think he puts himself in a position to get injured by always fighting for every last yard.

 

I like that but lets save that for the playoffs,take your 7 or 8 and avoid the crunch..

[MAJBobby]

7th Round Pick in 2020. Say it again. 7th Round Pick in 2020. 

 

So WHO CARES. He was named in a Police Report (nothing against him). And was sent home once while not able to play anyway. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Nice math.   

 

Sammy played 29 games, Corey 19. so you'd expect Sammy would have more catches, more targets and more yards.   That's why I did the averages, per game.   Sammy was targeted a little more than Corey, but only a little more.   So Sammy wasn't used more as a receiver than Corey was.   Sammy had more catches per game because, as I said, his completions per target were much better than Corey's.   That's the only difference in their stats; everything flows from that.   If Corey had caught the same percentage as Sammy, then they'd have very comparable per-game stats.  

 

So what's the difference?   Some combination of two factors - (1) Sammy has better hands, which almost certainly is true and (2) Sammy had a better QB throwing to him, which probably is true.   Someone posted earlier that LAST season, Corey was #3 in uncatchable balls thrown his way, so at least last season, some of Corey's lousy catch percentage was attributable to the QB, not Corey.  

 

Don't get me wrong.   I was among the biggest Sammy homers, he has special skills.    And I don't know anything about Corey Coleman.   I'm not saying Corey has the same potential as Sammy.   However, over four seasons now, Sammy hasn't reached his potential.   

 

Wait and see.   The Bills wouldn't have traded for Coleman if they didn't think they could make something of him; McBeane don't usually go looking for projects.   Coleman has the fundamental skills, and we'll see what McDermott can do with them.  If Coleman reaches his potential, Bills will have made a great deal. 

 

The difference is NFL talent with hands, route running, knowing how to set up DBs, effective use of speed and body positioning that make Watkins the far superior and more productive player.   You're making this attempt to argue in favor of a player you admittedly know nothing about and it simply doesn't add up in any rational or logical.   That's exactly why the Bills paid next to nothing in compensation for him.  You should stop, but somehow I know you won't just as you argued over and over again about Kirk Cousins to the Bills when it was obvious that they weren't a match. 

[John from Riverside]

32 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Maybe beating the crap out of some guy is how Coleman broke his hand not once, but twice ... 

Why are you here?

[JMF2006]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Why are you here?

 

I thought it was funny?

[John from Riverside]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The difference is NFL talent with hands, route running, knowing how to set up DBs, effective use of speed and body positioning that make Watkins the far superior and more productive player.   You're making this attempt to argue in favor of a player you admittedly know nothing about and it simply doesn't add up in any rational or logical.   That's exactly why the Bills paid next to nothing in compensation for him.  You should stop, but somehow I know you won't just as you argued over and over again about Kirk Cousins to the Bills when it was obvious that they weren't a match. 

What I find kind of interesting.

 

I have seen him compared to 2 different former bills players so far

 

Roscoe Parish - Do ppl realize that Roscoe was practically UNCOVERABLE when he was on the field?  I mean literally.....nobody could cover him....his biggest problem is he was so slight that he just could not take the hits......Colemen does have some meat to him.

 

Marquis Goodwin - Another guy that when you listen to description of him....HE COULD NOT BE COVERED...and once again.....injuries are what did him in.   Goodwin seemed to get things together when he stopped trying to train for two different sports.

 

BOTH of these guys......could get separation....could get behind defenses.....both of them were fairly high round picks for us.

 

We got this guy for a bag of footballs and 1.2 million dollars a year for 2 years.

[Beast]

I can’t help but think Beane has a great relationship w/ Browns GM and Coleman was going to be cut outright but Dorsey, liking Beane and knowing the Bills WR depth chart, called him and said if you are interested just give me something so you don’t have to compete against the rest of the league when he is cut. Beane returned the favor by picking up the salary, regardless of how minimal it may have been.

 

Sometimes it’s good for GM’s to have these sort of relationships.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Binghamton Beast