Teen throws 8 yr old off waterslide platform

[ExiledInIllinois]

48 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

I fully agree.  It's a double edged sword we have wielded for decades.

 

The idea, of recent, that it takes a community to raise a child is a farce because our communities cannot do that.

 

We have parents that are unwilling, unable, disinterested, etc in raising their children and expect the school and community to do it and then bicker when the system does just that with their hellion.

 

And we have parents that raise their children correctly, provide good dual parent households, instill morals and responsibilities then accept that must send their children to be diluted down with things like common core and tolerances for less than honest.

 

Until we get more charter schools, home schools, or break up the mafia of current school systems and the powers that be we will continue to deal with this type of thing.  There is no good reason why, though this is just one case, Broward did not provide help to the student asking.  Nor is it acceptable that they had the facts that crime was rampant in their districts but students were not being held responsible.

 

The system is part of the problem when the parents aren't being part of the solution.  

Big trouble that this:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/11/05/243250817/fla-school-district-trying-to-curb-school-to-prison-pipeline

Becomes this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/26/broward-county-likely-inspiration-for-obama-school-discipline-policy-to-report-fewer-arrests-suspensions/amp/(I will not apologise for the source.  No MSM will cover it)

 

Broward county deserves to burn for this.

You hit the nail on the head.  That's even bleeding into to private schools now.  The parental inability is fueling the educational wastelands.  Quite a dumpster fire.  The wheat is now overwhelmed by the chaff.

 

That's the new abnormal!  Everybody is gaming the system with an identity, disability.  Quite a effed up culture.  Children don't know honesty, what should be norm.  They want to feel special, will do anything to feel special.

Edited August 5, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[boyst]

Just now, ExiledInIllinois said:

You hit the nail on the head.  That's even bleeding into to private schools now.  The parental inability is fueling the educational wastelands.  Quite a dumpster fire.  The wheat is now overwhelmed by the chaff.

 

That's the new abnormal!  Everybody is gaming the system with an identity, disability.  Quite a effed culture.  Children don't know honesty, what should be norm.  They want to feel special, will do anything to feel special.

As a Vietnamese mother of 6 veteran of the veitnam war and member of the vietkong army I fully agree that identity politics is important

[Johnny Hammersticks]

46 minutes ago, Nervous Guy said:

Looks like the Parkland shooter was special needs and was denied...

"But Mr. Cruz was legally an adult, and he wanted to graduate from Stoneman Douglas, according to a new report released late Friday by the Broward County Public Schools. A Cross Creek staffer gave him three options: transfer to the school, sue the school district, or stay at Stoneman Douglas — without any of the special-needs assistance he had relied on since he’d been found to be developmentally delayed at age 3.

The options, the school district’s new report found, were insufficient: Mr. Cruz by law and district policy should have been able to remain at Stoneman Douglas with special-needs protections. He didn’t know that but chose to stay anyway, no longer receiving any help or accommodations. It was Nov. 3, 2016."

Parkland Shooting Suspect Lost Special-Needs Help at School When He Needed It Most

 

A lot of information missing from that article to pass judgment on the LEA (school district).  Technically, when a student turns 18 they have the right to revoke consent for services, which some of them do because they no longer want the stigma of being “special ed.”  If the district special ed team felt that a change of placement was warranted, they could have called a meeting with the parents to talk about least restrictive environment for that kid.  Ultimately, there is an individual on that team who can make the intimate call, and then (in this case) the student would have been informed of their due process rights if he disagreed with the decision.  If the student filed for due process with the state AOE, the “stay put” regulation would be instituted, whereby the student would be permitted to stay at his current school/placement until the hearing was finished and a judgement made.

 

A lot of information missing likely due to the kid’s FERPA rights.  The lack of provision of therapeutic services was an obvious misstep by the school, however, but the only thing that would happen would be that the school would be ordered to provide compensatory services

 

8 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

I guess what we also do not know from the story is whether there were additional circumstances like teasing or taunting involved.  I guess the bottom line is that they must not have thought the 18 year old presented a risk to anyone under those circumstances.

 

Perhaps they did not.  Perhaps they did, and ignored the risk.  Reference my above example of the student who attacked the child with a kayak paddle while on a school field trip.  This student had a prolonged history of severely violent behaviors.  Never underestimate the possibility of people making stupid decisions.

[Fadingpain]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Is 3rd degree assault enough of a charge?

 

The 8 year old fell 30 feet and broke his femur, an injury that can easily be fatal.  Could have broken his head or neck and be dead.

 

Discuss

 

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/teen-allegedly-threw-boy-8-205234493.html

 

No, I would say 3rd degree assault is not enough in this instance.

 

30 feet is nothing to be sneezed at.  That is high enough to be perceived as "really high up" by your average person...and the teenager was 18!  

 

This kid will be dead or in jail for a long time by the time he is 30.

 

 

[KD in CA]

This weekend at the beach, the kids were all piled on the lifeguard chair after on-duty hours.  The kid with Down Syndrome shoved one of my 7 year olds off.  No big deal beyond a faceful of sand and a few tears, but it did remind me of this story, having read it earlier.  I'm all for trying to socialize developmentally disabled kids, but someone has got to be responsible and recognize the situations when something like this could happen.

[DC Tom]

7 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

The kid is 18.  Hopefully the sentence for this crime includes a stay at a lock-down mental health facility (e.g., state psychiatric facility). Clearly, this kid is capable of killing someone on a whim, and should be further evaluated and treated accordingly.

 

That's not a "kid."  You're 18, you're pushing eight year olds off a four-story platform, you should be charged as a goddamn adult.

 

6 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Absolutely!  I got stabbed by a 4th grade student why working in Charlotte-Mech.  I was “advised” to not make a stink and not press charges, yet was encouraged by my supervisor to transport the kid and his mother to the psychiatric hospital for evaluation because his father could not bring him.  Dad was “packing the car for a fishing trip,” and couldn’t be bothered.

 

I was young and stupid back then.  Would have handled the situation much differently today.

 

What's that student doing now?

[RaoulDuke79]

What the hell is the purpose of the attendant then?

"The attendant who accompanied Adams to the water park on that day did not witness the incident and was not in the area of the water slide when it happened", he says

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

11 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

This weekend at the beach, the kids were all piled on the lifeguard chair after on-duty hours.  The kid with Down Syndrome shoved one of my 7 year olds off.  No big deal beyond a faceful of sand and a few tears, but it did remind me of this story, having read it earlier.  I'm all for trying to socialize developmentally disabled kids, but someone has got to be responsible and recognize the situations when something like this could happen.

I agree.  But then they get back lash if they are hovering too much 

 

Can't win.  Too many know it alls questioning everything.  Why risk it. The peon person watching will get it from both directions.  Not worth the hassle... Then you get the scumbag lawyers innvoled.  You wonder why people do as little as possible, don't stick their neck out.  Then on top of it, they are risking their safety for chump change wages.

 

Just lock them away and be done with it.  Unless, you or I wanna step up to the plate... Which we probably would.

 

You are asking a lot of the average schlep "caregiver."  Heck, the ones that were helping my Brother in rehab when he fell off his semi and broke both his feet/legs... They were stealing from him!

5 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

What the hell is the purpose of the attendant then?

"The attendant who accompanied Adams to the water park on that day did not witness the incident and was not in the area of the water slide when it happened", he says

 

True.  Should be on him like stink on sch*t!

Edited August 5, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[Johnny Hammersticks]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

What's that student doing now?

 

No idea.  This was back in my first job in Charlotte.  About 98% free/reduced lunch population.  Gangs recruiting drug runners on the playground after school.  I would suspect either dead or in jail (sadly).  

 

The prognosis for him was not good.  Father in jail.  Stepfather a slug and suspected drunk/abuser.  Mom was more than likely cognitively challenged at best.  At least I haven’t seen him on the news!

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

No idea.  This was back in my first job in Charlotte.  About 98% free/reduced lunch population.  Gangs recruiting drug runners on the playground after school.  I would suspect either dead or in jail (sadly).  

 

The prognosis for him was not good.  Father in jail.  Stepfather a slug and suspected drunk/abuser.  Mom was more than likely cognitively challenged at best.  At least I haven’t seen him on the news!

 

Yeah, when they get to the "stabby-stabby" phase of development, there's not a lot of hope to get them turned around.

 

I knew some kids like that in high school - not "stabbing people" bad, but arson, B&E, robbery, and cruelty to animals.  I just looked one of them up...served time for dealing, and now in for a multiple shooting.  

[Johnny Hammersticks]

10 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Yeah, when they get to the "stabby-stabby" phase of development, there's not a lot of hope to get them turned around.

 

I knew some kids like that in high school - not "stabbing people" bad, but arson, B&E, robbery, and cruelty to animals.  I just looked one of them up...served time for dealing, and now in for a multiple shooting.  

 

He was a mess.  Truly one of the most emotionally disturbed children I have ever met in my 14 years practicing in schools.  

 

Strangely, he had a younger brother (1 year younger I believe) who was incredible well-adjusted.  We used to call on him to help deescalate his brother sometimes.  Resiliency is truly an amazing thing.

 

I was called out to the classroom over the intercom (Mr. H bring the blue folder to room 26), which meant there was a crisis.  When I arrived the class was evacuated and the teacher was holding students and crying. When I walked in the classroom was absolutely trashed.  He had a 3-4 inch folding pocket knife, and was seated facing the wall sobbing with the knife blade held against his wrist.

 

I had good rapport with him, and eventually got him to stand up and take the knife away from his wrist.  I got him to smile a couple times and laugh, and I thought I could get the knife and get him out of the classroom.  Without any sign of distress, he lunged at me and stuck the blade about 3/4” into my right shoulder just underneath my collar bone.

 

Fight or flight kicked in, and I put him in a restraint and dropped to the floor screaming for help.  I had him in the restraint, with the knife still in my shoulder, for about 5 minutes before one of the assistant principals and a contracted mental health practitioner came in to help.  I was so jacked up I forgot the knife was in my shoulder until the teacher pointed it out when I walked outside the classroom.

 

Freaky stuff....

[That's No Moon]

4 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

He was a mess.  Truly one of the most emotionally disturbed children I have ever met in my 14 years practicing in schools.  

 

Strangely, he had a younger brother (1 year younger I believe) who was incredible well-adjusted.  We used to call on him to help deescalate his brother sometimes.  Resiliency is truly an amazing thing.

 

I was called out to the classroom over the intercom (Mr. H bring the blue folder to room 26), which meant there was a crisis.  When I arrived the class was evacuated and the teacher was holding students and crying. When I walked in the classroom was absolutely trashed.  He had a 3-4 inch folding pocket knife, and was seated facing the wall sobbing with the knife blade held against his wrist.

 

I had good rapport with him, and eventually got him to stand up and take the knife away from his wrist.  I got him to smile a couple times and laugh, and I thought I could get the knife and get him out of the classroom.  Without any sign of distress, he lunged at me and stuck the blade about 3/4” into my right shoulder just underneath my collar bone.

 

Fight or flight kicked in, and I put him in a restraint and dropped to the floor screaming for help.  I had him in the restraint, with the knife still in my shoulder, for about 5 minutes before one of the assistant principals and a contracted mental health practitioner came in to help.  I was so jacked up I forgot the knife was in my shoulder until the teacher pointed it out when I walked outside the classroom.

 

Freaky stuff....

I hesitate to click "like" on that but I work in special ed and my younger self worked in some really hairy places and saw some really hairy stuff.

 

The stuff I see now is very tame in comparison.

 

My 2 cents, we don't know a lot about this kid to be damning the caretaker. We don't know why she was there, how many kids she was supervising, or what the kids history was. I've had kids who had a PCA for issues that had nothing to do with violence. I've taken a group of kids to the mall for example. There were 5 of them and 4 of us. The point of doing it was to try to teach the kids how to behave in that environment. Sometimes they'd do some interesting stuff and the people in the mall or wherever had no idea what was going on but it was important for the kid to be out in the environment to learn. 

 

On the other hand, I know there are plenty of situations as described where some kids with some serious emotional issues go out to public places, again as part of them learning to deal with it. Typically, though not always, those kids tend to have more staff assigned on an outing because to be in that setting they've already done some serious stuff and are on people's radar

 

One thing I can almost guarantee though is that the aide is really poorly paid, not nearly as educated as you'd think they should be and they had no say over how many staff went on this trip. 

 

Blaming the school district is the common answer. What problem haven't we assigned to the schools to fix? That example of the Parkland kid is a good one. He's old enough to make his own decisions legally. He's able to turn down certain things or say he doesn't want to go to a certain school. The District can fight it but it's very time consuming and they often lose in the end. There is a legal need to have a kid in the least restrictive environment where they can succeed. If a kid isn't doing anything beyond the scope of a typical high school kid you can't move them out and even if you do, then what? There is no real inpatient mental health system anymore in this country. Everything is out patient and the patients control whether or not they participate. Unless you are an immediate danger to yourself or someone else they will not hospitalize you, period. They might hold you for 48 hours depending on the state. some places are easier than others to involuntarily commit a person for 48 hours than others. Of course, even if you do the work needed to give someone a 48 there needs to be a bed available and depending on where you live there may not be one, in which case too bad. You are out of luck.

 

This is but one of many situations in our country that are screwed up and wrong but we lack the focus and will to fix them because they require uncomfortable conversations and the expenditure of money. What we have done to mental health in this country is shameful and many of the problems were created out of good intentions to fix other real problems.

 

Takeways for the group

1. let schools teach,

2. not everyone can handle outpatient care

3. we need a place for those people to go that isn't jail, the street, or the morgue.

 

End of rant.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

25 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

I hesitate to click "like" on that but I work in special ed and my younger self worked in some really hairy places and saw some really hairy stuff.

 

The stuff I see now is very tame in comparison.

 

My 2 cents, we don't know a lot about this kid to be damning the caretaker. We don't know why she was there, how many kids she was supervising, or what the kids history was. I've had kids who had a PCA for issues that had nothing to do with violence. I've taken a group of kids to the mall for example. There were 5 of them and 4 of us. The point of doing it was to try to teach the kids how to behave in that environment. Sometimes they'd do some interesting stuff and the people in the mall or wherever had no idea what was going on but it was important for the kid to be out in the environment to learn. 

 

On the other hand, I know there are plenty of situations as described where some kids with some serious emotional issues go out to public places, again as part of them learning to deal with it. Typically, though not always, those kids tend to have more staff assigned on an outing because to be in that setting they've already done some serious stuff and are on people's radar

 

One thing I can almost guarantee though is that the aide is really poorly paid, not nearly as educated as you'd think they should be and they had no say over how many staff went on this trip. 

 

Blaming the school district is the common answer. What problem haven't we assigned to the schools to fix? That example of the Parkland kid is a good one. He's old enough to make his own decisions legally. He's able to turn down certain things or say he doesn't want to go to a certain school. The District can fight it but it's very time consuming and they often lose in the end. There is a legal need to have a kid in the least restrictive environment where they can succeed. If a kid isn't doing anything beyond the scope of a typical high school kid you can't move them out and even if you do, then what? There is no real inpatient mental health system anymore in this country. Everything is out patient and the patients control whether or not they participate. Unless you are an immediate danger to yourself or someone else they will not hospitalize you, period. They might hold you for 48 hours depending on the state. some places are easier than others to involuntarily commit a person for 48 hours than others. Of course, even if you do the work needed to give someone a 48 there needs to be a bed available and depending on where you live there may not be one, in which case too bad. You are out of luck.

 

This is but one of many situations in our country that are screwed up and wrong but we lack the focus and will to fix them because they require uncomfortable conversations and the expenditure of money. What we have done to mental health in this country is shameful and many of the problems were created out of good intentions to fix other real problems.

 

Takeways for the group

1. let schools teach,

2. not everyone can handle outpatient care

3. we need a place for those people to go that isn't jail, the street, or the morgue.

 

End of rant.

 

Agree with just about everything you say here, but there is a lot of information missing from this article in order to form a solid opinion.

[CowgirlsFan]

Terribly sad.

 

So many lives now changed.

[Paulus]

Man, this is just going to result on no good, outside of the 8y/o being okay. The tard needs to be caged, IRL.

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

I hesitate to click "like" on that but I work in special ed and my younger self worked in some really hairy places and saw some really hairy stuff.

 

The stuff I see now is very tame in comparison.

 

My 2 cents, we don't know a lot about this kid to be damning the caretaker. We don't know why she was there, how many kids she was supervising, or what the kids history was. I've had kids who had a PCA for issues that had nothing to do with violence. I've taken a group of kids to the mall for example. There were 5 of them and 4 of us. The point of doing it was to try to teach the kids how to behave in that environment. Sometimes they'd do some interesting stuff and the people in the mall or wherever had no idea what was going on but it was important for the kid to be out in the environment to learn. 

 

On the other hand, I know there are plenty of situations as described where some kids with some serious emotional issues go out to public places, again as part of them learning to deal with it. Typically, though not always, those kids tend to have more staff assigned on an outing because to be in that setting they've already done some serious stuff and are on people's radar

 

One thing I can almost guarantee though is that the aide is really poorly paid, not nearly as educated as you'd think they should be and they had no say over how many staff went on this trip. 

 

Blaming the school district is the common answer. What problem haven't we assigned to the schools to fix? That example of the Parkland kid is a good one. He's old enough to make his own decisions legally. He's able to turn down certain things or say he doesn't want to go to a certain school. The District can fight it but it's very time consuming and they often lose in the end. There is a legal need to have a kid in the least restrictive environment where they can succeed. If a kid isn't doing anything beyond the scope of a typical high school kid you can't move them out and even if you do, then what? There is no real inpatient mental health system anymore in this country. Everything is out patient and the patients control whether or not they participate. Unless you are an immediate danger to yourself or someone else they will not hospitalize you, period. They might hold you for 48 hours depending on the state. some places are easier than others to involuntarily commit a person for 48 hours than others. Of course, even if you do the work needed to give someone a 48 there needs to be a bed available and depending on where you live there may not be one, in which case too bad. You are out of luck.

 

This is but one of many situations in our country that are screwed up and wrong but we lack the focus and will to fix them because they require uncomfortable conversations and the expenditure of money. What we have done to mental health in this country is shameful and many of the problems were created out of good intentions to fix other real problems.

 

Takeways for the group

1. let schools teach,

2. not everyone can handle outpatient care

3. we need a place for those people to go that isn't jail, the street, or the morgue.

 

End of rant.

It's a good rant.

 

And we all want to pay low taxes too.  It's always comes back to labor.  You get out what you put in.

 

Move along, nothing to see here... It doesn't pertain to me.  Eff em. Who cares.

 

[No... This isn't really me]

[boyst]

6 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Agree with just about everything you say here, but there is a lot of information missing from this article in order to form a solid opinion.

I clicked the laugh button.  Well, because anything less just wouldn't be me.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Why the hell do the "powers that be" care?  They paid their dues... Got the eff out and call the shots.  They aren't working till they are 65 as an aide guiding that Man-Child up a water slide.

 

Those powers that be are the one's making the big bucks, grabbing the lion's share.

 

The fish rots from the head down.

 

All hands on deck!

Edited August 6, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[dpberr]

I'm a *big* fan of filing charges against the parents or caretakers of autistic or otherwise challenged kids that do these sorts of things.  Examples must be made and people have to be responsible.  Don't want to throw the developmentally disabled in jail for their actions?  Ok, we'll do the parents then.  

 

For whatever reason, these kids are deceptively strong, with far more physical strength than you realize.  You combine that with an emotional outburst, you get this.  

 

I can speak from experience.  Last year, a 20-year old autistic child went on a rampage in a Target where he tossed every shopper in an aisle into the shelving or to the floor.  My mom was one of those shoppers - she broke her arm after being shoved hard into the shelving and hitting the floor.  The mother said "well he gets like this when he can't get what he wants..." Although my mother should have pressed charges and sued somebody, she didn't.  

 

It took three police officers to restrain this kid.  

[Greybeard]

14 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

That's not a "kid."  You're 18, you're pushing eight year olds off a four-story platform, you should be charged as a goddamn adult.

 

 

What's that student doing now?

          I was just thinking how if it the article gave the height in "story's" how it paints a much different picture and then your comment defined it.  Although I thought the rule of measure is 10 Ft per story.