Fr. Jerk Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 1 hour ago, CountDorkula said: You are entirely right, homie. This guy really is the only person that wants the tailgating changed, ya dig? EPM Excellent Post Mang.
dwight in philly Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, Peevo said: This is essentially correct. All of the research backs the conclusion that taxpayer funded stadia rarely results in a boon to taxpayers. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/how-the-nfl-fleeces-taxpayers/309448/ Buffalo is in a tough spot. They have stable, well-funded ownership that's committed to infrastructural, societal, and cultural improvements of the western New York market. However, the profit margins are very slim on a market with limited corporate resources, and an exhausted pool of "regional" fans in Southern Ontario, Rochester, et cetera. This writer works in media, almost exclusively funded via advertising sales. Trust me when I say this, every single possible client that would have any money to spend, already does. There are only so many $100,000 Cellino & Barnes accounts to go around. Effectively Buffalo has tapped out whatever advertising/sponsorship that they possibly can. There's no money left. And of course we always hear that Buffalo's tickets are among the cheapest consistently in the NFL. It is ironic that the NFL has grown to be the most popular sport among the "big 4" North American sports using socialism - taxing the "rich" to give to the "poor"- ie - revenue sharing benefits from the big markets giving to the small markets. That the most profitable sport in the country can use tactics reviled by the political right is a dark and sad reality that rich, old, white men who don't want to pay any taxes have become older, richer, and whiter, via policies that are consistently touted as dangerous by hardcore conservative wonks. The NFL wants Buffalo to build a new stadium so it can increase its profits, and ensure more money in the pool for all the teams. Football is based on a completely unsustainable business model. "Enough is never enough". They must always make more revenue than the season previous. At some point, supply will exceed demand. It's only a matter of time before sports fails just like the big banks. Give it another 15 years or so. We've already seen about a 10% decline in youth football enrollment. Once that generation of players comes of age, and we realize there just aren't enough talented players to sustain the product at its current entertainment price (billions a year for nearly every TV broadcaster), sports is done. What does all this mean? I think eventually political leadership in NYS will cave and give the Pegulas (multi-billiionaires), their fancy new stadium, likely 80% give or take publicly funded. It'll be touted as an economic "win" for Buffalo. Another notch in the massively over-hyped "Buffalo resurgence". Yet the results will be the same. It'll be a waste of government spending at the highest level. If NYS spent $1 billion on a community center on the east side of the city that ended up being used 10 times a year, that would be an outrage at the highest level. Angry old white guy would cry from the highest mountain, or more appropriately, a microphone on WBEN, about how government only knows how to waste your money. Yet when a football team wastes your money on billionaires who can afford it, we're all ok with it, because we love the Bills for some stupid reason. This is all very long and stupid. Ultimately, we all want our team, and we're gonna do whatever we can to keep them here. Give it 3 years and Pegula will start crying about "competitive balances", "market size", "profitability", "viability" and any stupid !@#$ing buzzword Russ Brandon kept touting before he finally got the boot. i , for one am hoping the "worm is turning" regarding the monopoly the NFL has .. it is their arrogance that is starting to turn off people like me off.. a guy who started following the Buffalo Bills in 1960.. and lives and dies for the "product" . BUT. the days of holding cities hostage should be over. without getting political, they actually are.. the days of taking the fan base for granted should be over.. the lemmings are starting to "get it" .. screw them. if they wanna abandon a true historic fan base .we will survive. but again. F-em. 1
DefenseWins Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 Exactly when did our country go Bankrupt?? I must have missed that one somehow! Last I heard, our National Debt stood at around 20 Trillion dollars - granted a substantial sum of money, but that represents one year of our GDP which is also 20 Trillion Dollars. That also happens to correspond to the entire GDP of the EU. (including Great Britain) At some point "The Stadium in Orchard Park, NY" as it was called when it first opened in the early 70s (I still have the cheap little commemorative coin they handed out to us at the 1st game played there!) will need to be replaced. Concrete and Steel degrade over time... It's simply a matter of time. NYS will be assisting/financing a healthy share of the cost with the Pegulas and the NFL kicking some money in as well. Fans will have to bear some of the cost as well. Hotel taxes can be increased to chip in on the cost as well. Perhaps NYS will approve of recreational pot which could also have taxes attached to fund projects like the stadium and other needed infrastructure projects around the state that need doing.
Irv Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Sky Diver said: Fantasy Land, lol. Holy crap. You read my mind. That is exactly what I was thinking of. Back to School.
Saxum Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 4 hours ago, The Jokeman said: If Buffalo wants to revitalize downtown more a new stadium would help. Not to mention the whole Bills mafia "black eye" could be fixed with less pregame tailgating etc. could be better controlled with a downtown stadium. Not to mention make the Pegula's One Buffalo campaign more united. This is a bad joke right? Keep your day job. IF BUFFALO wants to revitalize downtown a stadium used 10-13 days a year is not worth the investment but if BUFFALO wants to pay for it fine. Bills fans and Pegulas shouldn't unless it benefits them and doubling of ticket prices and addition of PSLs will not help. 1
Irv Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said: They don’t need a new hyper expensive stadium just to make a bunch of billionaires happy. Keep modernizing what you have and carry on. I just don't agree with you. Not building stadium almost cost us our team. Look at Cleveland (moved to Baltimore), San Diego (moved to LA), St Louis (moved to LA), and Oakland (moving to Las Vegas) if you need examples. You must not like having a team here. Once the lease is up we'll be right back in the crapper again.
Saxum Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Sky Diver said: Our stadium does the job, but frankly, it’s not very nice, even compared to a top college stadium. Yes not like this "great" college stadium http://www.cw.ua.edu/article/2016/10/bryant-denny-stadium-has-room-for-improvement This, in turn, blocks the entire space in which fans must travel to get anywhere in the stadium. At some points, you are literally in the shirt of the person next to you while trying to pass the line and find a bathroom. Kids get elbowed in the head, people get bumped and pushed and no one looks forward to smelling the deodorant (or lack thereof) as they excuse their way through the traffic jam. But this is expected for a team named after a harmful algal bloom. 2 hours ago, Irv said: I'm not advocating anything. And unless you live in Fantasy Land, then you don't know how NY politics work. Pay to play dude. You see to advocate corruption and plagerism. Change name and avatar.
Sky Diver Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Yes not like this "great" college stadium http://www.cw.ua.edu/article/2016/10/bryant-denny-stadium-has-room-for-improvement But this is expected for a team named after a harmful algal bloom. Wow, it’s not a great stadium because a nursing student complained about the lines at the concession stands? Have you ever been there? Beautiful stadium, incredible atmosphere, 102,000 screaming fans. Edited August 3, 2018 by Sky Diver
Chandler#81 Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 Note: 1 comment deleted for infringing on copyrights.
Cripple Creek Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 29 minutes ago, Irv said: I just don't agree with you. Not building stadium almost cost us our team. Look at Cleveland (moved to Baltimore), San Diego (moved to LA), St Louis (moved to LA), and Oakland (moving to Las Vegas) if you need examples. You must not like having a team here. Once the lease is up we'll be right back in the crapper again. How long have you had season tickets & what is the max you’d pay on a yearly basis for PSLs and tickets? Yes, St Louis lost another team because of the greed of an owner. A new stadium doesn’t guarantee anything beyond the initial lease term. He was hell bent on LA and there was nothing that could stop him. How many stadia do folks in Atlanta have to pay for to ensure the falcons stay? Just because other communities have engaged in crazy schemes and mortgaged their future doesn’t mean Buffalo has to as well. This doesn’t affect me one bit. I’m out of state and attend one game per year. I’ll still be able to attend one per year no matter where they are playing. It will, however, affect many season ticket holders who suddenly cannot afford a PSL and an inflated ticket price. I am old enough to remember WMS. I’m old enough to remember when construction on Rich Stadium began. I’ve been a fan the entire time, but there is a limit. Ransom is my limit. 1
mjd1001 Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 As others have said, they don't NEED a new stadium. But why would it be important they get one? New revenue of course, and for P.R. for the league. People say how would it generate new revenue, the Buffalo market is tapped out? Well, it could a few ways: -Whenever a new stadium opens, there are some fans from other cities that will make a trip to see the new stadium. The effect can last a few years. -You WILL get more money for tickets and concessions. I haven't been to a game in years and years. Give me tix, I won't go because I'm happy at home. But give me a shiny new stadium with cool places to eat and gather..I'm likely to go to a few games per year for at least a few years...even paying $100+ per ticket (maybe more) -You have people like my brother-in-law who makes a really good salary living here in Buffalo..he had a few season tickets up until about 5 or 6 years ago. Give him a new stadium, he'll shell out $200 per game easily and get season tickets if you give him something he thinks is worth it. That may not make him a 'true fan', but the reality is there are a lot of people with disposable income that don't go to games now but will pay higher prices if you gave them a better, more comfortable (domed) gameday experience.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 46 minutes ago, Irv said: I just don't agree with you. Not building stadium almost cost us our team. Look at Cleveland (moved to Baltimore), San Diego (moved to LA), St Louis (moved to LA), and Oakland (moving to Las Vegas) if you need examples. You must not like having a team here. Once the lease is up we'll be right back in the crapper again. That's the game you play when you are a member of the Billionaire's Club that the NFL is. New Era could be fine for another 20 years, but not with the Jerruh's and Krafts that rule the league. Better get ready to assume the position.
dubs Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 I would LOVE a new stadium complex like what’s in Foxboro, I mean Foxborough, but not if a penny of taxpayer dollars goes to it.
Fr. Jerk Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 34 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Wow, it’s not a great stadium because a nursing student complained about the lines at the concession stands?
Niagara Dude Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 5 hours ago, T master said: We've read all the articles about how the NFL wants the Bills to have a new stadium to be like Jerrah or Kronke out in LA but why ? The Bills are who we are & i like it this way !! There is all this talk even before the Pegula's bought the team that the "NFL" & others want the Bills to have a new stadium & that if they don't get one it would be terrible & not up to NFL standards ! In all of the polls New Era Field is at the bottom of the fan experience list as far as NFL stadiums are concerned . Well i have been to the field on numerous occasions & other than a blizzard on game day or a 18 degree temp. in Nov. my experience has for the most part been good (except the time i got my pockets picked at a N.E. game which i think was a N.E. fan) I read about the $18 Mill improvements to the Adpro sports facility that the Pegula's are doing which will make it among the best in the league, then you read about what new players say about the locker room improvements when they come here & it all being good reviews ! Add to it what they have done with the upgrades to the stadium to make the fan experience better over the last few years then WHY ?? I know NFL football fans are spoiled a lot like the players & feel they need all these interactive video/shopping center/ restaurant & such things that cost a Billion plus & i realize there are still things that need some upgrade in the stadium but coming from a era where every thing i got i earned being a part of a Jerry Jones spoiled ass experience i want no part of ! I've been to his stadium & was not really all that impressed because it reeks of his ego !! I'm proud to be a Bills fan & proud of the stadium & all that goes with it including the best tail gating any where in the NFL, what I don't understand is that if the NFL wants the Bills or any other team for that matter to build a new stadium why they don't pony up the majority of the cost instead of passing the buck off on the fans in one way or another or do what Kronke is doing pay for it out of the owners pockets they will recoup the money in time from the fans any way !! Just saying i have never really had a bad experience (except for waiting in line to go to the rest room) at New Era Field & don't get with all the New why there needs to be a entirely new place & building maybe you all as Bills fans can give me a better idea why it needs or doesn't need to be, Thanks for your input either way good or bad !! GO BILLS !!! I think what we have is great for an NFL game experience, sure they could add some luxury boxes to increase revenues . End of the day the on the field product is the most important and if Allen turns into a franchise QB then good things will follow. Having a new billion dollar plus stadium is not going to increase interest but a winning team with great QB will.
Irv Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 50 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Yes not like this "great" college stadium http://www.cw.ua.edu/article/2016/10/bryant-denny-stadium-has-room-for-improvement But this is expected for a team named after a harmful algal bloom. You see to advocate corruption and plagerism. Change name and avatar. You seem to advocate misspelled words and inability to express yourself. Change your third grade teacher. 1
Capco Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, The Jokeman said: If Buffalo wants to revitalize downtown more a new stadium would help. Not to mention the whole Bills mafia "black eye" could be fixed with less pregame tailgating etc. could be better controlled with a downtown stadium. Not to mention make the Pegula's One Buffalo campaign more united. I think you could get a lot more bang for your buck if you took all that NYS/Erie County money for a new stadium and instead used it to spruce up the downtown area. Edited August 3, 2018 by Capco
Cripple Creek Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 37 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Wow, it’s not a great stadium because a nursing student complained about the lines at the concession stands? Have you ever been there? Beautiful stadium, incredible atmosphere, 102,000 screaming fans. You never fail to entertain.?
Irv Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: How long have you had season tickets & what is the max you’d pay on a yearly basis for PSLs and tickets? Yes, St Louis lost another team because of the greed of an owner. A new stadium doesn’t guarantee anything beyond the initial lease term. He was hell bent on LA and there was nothing that could stop him. How many stadia do folks in Atlanta have to pay for to ensure the falcons stay? Just because other communities have engaged in crazy schemes and mortgaged their future doesn’t mean Buffalo has to as well. This doesn’t affect me one bit. I’m out of state and attend one game per year. I’ll still be able to attend one per year no matter where they are playing. It will, however, affect many season ticket holders who suddenly cannot afford a PSL and an inflated ticket price. I am old enough to remember WMS. I’m old enough to remember when construction on Rich Stadium began. I’ve been a fan the entire time, but there is a limit. Ransom is my limit. OK. I get it. Where the team is located doesn't matter to you because you don't live in WNY. But it does matter to a lot of us and I'm sure there would be people lining up to pay a PSL if the Bills were to leave town. Toronto Bills makes me want to barf. It almost happened. Livin' on a prayer! Edited August 3, 2018 by Irv
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted August 3, 2018 Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Wow, it’s not a great stadium because a nursing student complained about the lines at the concession stands? Have you ever been there? Beautiful stadium, incredible atmosphere, 102,000 screaming fans. It's probably just me, but what I see is a whole boatload of chairs in a really nice looking building. When I got to New Era, I see pretty much the same thing. Perhaps there are better amenities, maybe a chick fila or Shlotskys deli there, but I don't really get the fuss. I've been to a few stadiums, saw the Bills play at Gillette a few times (spoiler alert...they lost) and Gillette is architecturally more pleasing but I'm not Frank Lloyd Wright so it's not a hot button issue for me. If there is a functional obsolescence issue, fine, deal with it one way or the other, but I like out stadium. Edited August 3, 2018 by leh-nerd skin-erd
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