Why Do the Bills Need a New Stadium ??

[nucci]

1 minute ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

 

I meant revenue sharing. So the revenue is split evenly with all the teams regardless of their financial performance?

ok, figured that....Yes, there is certain revenue that gets split evenly. Most of that is TV money...ticket money is split 60-40 for home teams. Teams get to keep suite money but what Ralph didn't like was that suite money raised the salary cap but was not shared so the bigger market teams had more money to spend. That is why most owners would want a new stadium....

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

 

 

It is important. I wonder what kind of growth rate % the teams need to meet to be eligible for profit sharing. If the Pegula's keep refusing to build a stadium the owners can probably raise the threshold of the performance metrics, not sure how all that works.

 

But without revenue sharing from the league, I doubt the Bills are viable. 

 

...and how many other teams could survive without it?.....check out the astronomical PSL's and tix prices at Niners Levi Stadium......tons of empty seats, so I'd think that market would be in trouble.....for years when Bidwell Sr was in charge of 'Zona, he was comfortable with a substandard on the field product playing to crowds of 35,000 or less....revenue sharing made him comfy.......Bidwell Jr takes over and quickly moves to upgrade the product.....where would Jax be?.....how much do the "Hefty Bag Seat Holders" pay per season?...how 'bout the Fins and the "Miami Sound Machine" ownership along with Ross?....could be the next attendance setting Marlins II......

15 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

The gap between big markets and small markets in modern sports is huge, and interesting to follow.

 

Gradually, over time, it feels like the natural progression will be to eliminate the small markets and then this battle will be over.

 

I hope that takes a long time, though, and somehow Buffalo manages to slip through the cracks.  And Green Bay.

 

 

 

...Bills, yes...GB, never.......think I read their season ticket waiting list is 60,000+ which is incomprehensible.....the ONLY way to move up is if some one dies ahead of you.....or you call Uncle Nunzio to "speed things up".....

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

True fact: Some in Baltimore didn't want to build Camden Yards. Memorial Stadium on 33rd St. was perfectly fine and was home to the great Oriole teams of the past. How can you improve on that? Sure, there was so little parking that you had park bumper-to-bumper and door-to-door, which meant you couldn't leave the game until everyone blocking you in left first, and the toilets did overflow every once in a while, and yes the narrow concourses with the exposed wiring and pipes were an eyesore, but would a stadium by the Inner Harbor really be any better?

 

Hey Promo I see your point.  I am an Oriole fan and OPACY is a top notch venue.  But with ~80 home dates spread out over the six best weather months it serves an economic niche in ways that a football stadium never can.  Nothing wrong with the current stadium in terms of watching a football game or the other game day rituals  The renovations did improve the game day experience.   The AdPro Fieldhouse is an under utilized, fan friendly,  game day destination. 

 

I wonder by what measures Arrowhead has aged well by the previous statements while Rich/RW/New Era has not.   New stadium =  higher ticket prices = more shared revenue is the only point the NFL can see.  Soaking the taxpayers and ticket buyers is not worth it for a roof and a cup holder for, at most, the 3 or 4  home dates when you might really appreciate them.

 

The only other NFL stadium I have been to is Cleveland's.  I would not trade ours for theirs strait up.

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, Irv said:

I'm not so sure I agree with you.  Some NFL cities have had 2 stadiums built since 1973 when the Rich was opened - Seattle, Indianapolis, Atlanta, New York, Minnesota.  I think it's long overdue.   But, at the end-of-the day this is NY and the right people in Albany have not been paid off yet to get any state aid. 

 

So, you’re advocating paying people off and wasting the public’s money? Brilliant .

[Lv-Bills]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

If you have ever been to Lambeau (or Bryant-Denny  Stadium in Tuscaloosa), you wouldn’t think much of our stadium).

I've been to, and worked at, almost every stadium in the NFL, and I think the world of our stadium.

 

Whoever the architect was that designed it, was ahead of their time in what was probably the late 60s and early 70s.  The seating, is by far, the best in the NFL.  The layout of upper deck seating as to not create nosebleeds in the endzones, the way the lower bowl is constructed for sightlines......bar none.....the best in the NFL.  Not second, third, fourth or top ten.  The best.  For a no frills town about football, the economy of Western NY, lack of ripoff PSL's.  and how good the design is for football at New Era......there is almost absolutely no reason, none, for a new stadium in Buffalo.  That obviously includes also inludes tailgating and parking.  By far, also the best in the league.  A close second for parking is KC, but even at that, in Buffalo, the local residents are able to somewhat keep the Bills lots in check by offering close parking at lower prices.

 

There's not a good reason for a new stadium in Buffalo.  Period.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Lv-Bills

[Irv]

10 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

So, you’re advocating paying people off and wasting the public’s money? Brilliant .

 

I'm not advocating anything.  And unless you live in Fantasy Land, then you don't know how NY politics work. Pay to play dude.      

[HOUSE]

With the Pegulas dumping a huge amount of money in the current stadium the future is pretty obvious.

I love my stadium, leave it alone....

[Sky Diver]

4 minutes ago, Irv said:

 

I'm not advocating anything.  And unless you live in Fantasy Land, then you don't know how NY politics work. Pay to play dude.      

 

Fantasy Land, lol.

 

 

[brianthomas]

Maybe 10 years ago I was in the camp of lets build a new stadium downtown, it'll help bring back the city.

But now I think it just makes more sense to upgrade the current one.

Our Country is bankrupt, our State is essentially bankrupt. We could spend billions on a new stadium but it just seems like a colossal waste of money, for a stadium only used 8 Sundays a season. Yes it could be mixed use & it would have to be. But for a city like Buffalo I just don't think it makes much sense at this point.

[CountDorkula]

2 hours ago, The Jerk said:

 

Nobody wants the tailgating to change except you.

 

Yes, you are the only one.

False.

 

Tailgating will be ruined, but by the people jumping thought tables when one breaks a neck and sues. 

 

And then the "Bills Mafia" will blame the Bills and the NFL for it. 

 

and yes, the Bills desperately need a new stadium.  To do a full reno would cost nearly as much as building a brand new one since the entire 100 level is underground. 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by CountDorkula

[bobobonators]

I dont live in Buffalo so my opinion doesnt matter; however, I do attend games every so often. 

 

Ultimately, I want whats best for the city and for the Bills. 

 

On a personal level, i wouldnt mind a new stadium like the one the vikings have now. Its technically an enclosed stadium but with huge windows so it has natural lighting and it feels open. 

[Sky Diver]

18 minutes ago, Lv-Bills said:

I've been to, and worked at, almost every stadium in the NFL, and I think the world of our stadium.

 

Whoever the architect was that designed it, was ahead of their time in what was probably the late 60s and early 70s.  The seating, is by far, the best in the NFL.  The layout of upper deck seating as to not create nosebleeds in the endzones, the way the lower bowl is constructed for sightlines......bar none.....the best in the NFL.  Not second, third, fourth or top ten.  The best.  For a no frills town about football, the economy of Western NY, lack of ripoff PSL's.  and how good the design is for football at New Era......there is almost absolutely no reason, none, for a new stadium in Buffalo.  That obviously includes also inludes tailgating and parking.  By far, also the best in the league.  A close second for parking is KC, but even at that, in Buffalo, the local residents are able to somewhat keep the Bills lots in check by offering close parking at lower prices.

 

There's not a good reason for a new stadium in Buffalo.  Period.

 

I'm not advocating for a new stadium, but to suggest that our stadium is better than Lambeau is laughable.

[John from Riverside]

We dont.....and we just dumped millions into the weight room for sleep pods etc (did they get a hot yoga instructor out of that deal)

[Formerly Allan in MD]

47 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...and how many other teams could survive without it?.....check out the astronomical PSL's and tix prices at Niners Levi Stadium......tons of empty seats, so I'd think that market would be in trouble.....for years when Bidwell Sr was in charge of 'Zona, he was comfortable with a substandard on the field product playing to crowds of 35,000 or less....revenue sharing made him comfy.......Bidwell Jr takes over and quickly moves to upgrade the product.....where would Jax be?.....how much do the "Hefty Bag Seat Holders" pay per season?...how 'bout the Fins and the "Miami Sound Machine" ownership along with Ross?....could be the next attendance setting Marlins II......

 

...Bills, yes...GB, never.......think I read their season ticket waiting list is 60,000+ which is incomprehensible.....the ONLY way to move up is if some one dies ahead of you.....or you call Uncle Nunzio to "speed things up".....

Another, though unfortunate, way to move up is to have mediocre or worse teams year after year.  The Redskins traditionally had a waiting list of tens of thousands.  Then came the "brilliant" Mr. Snyder, who proceeded to grind his "toy" into the ground from day one.  Now there's no one on the waiting list, so they recently abolished it. 

[Cripple Creek]

44 minutes ago, Irv said:

 

I'm not advocating anything.  And unless you live in Fantasy Land, then you don't know how NY politics work. Pay to play dude.      

They don’t need a new hyper expensive stadium just to make a bunch of billionaires happy. Keep modernizing what you have and carry on.

[nucci]

13 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

They don’t need a new hyper expensive stadium just to make a bunch of billionaires happy. Keep modernizing what you have and carry on.

I agree but unfortunately the billionaires have a bigger say

[Doc Brown]

Let's just rename it Roger Goodell Field and maybe he'll shut up about it.

[Cripple Creek]

6 minutes ago, nucci said:

I agree but unfortunately the billionaires have a bigger say

Do they? I suppose that they could mandate that a new stadium be built, but can they actually back it up?  Do this or...or what?

 

Not to mention the legal mess it would create along with tons of bad press for “the shield.”

[nucci]

Just now, Cripple Creek said:

Do they? I suppose that they could mandate that a new stadium be built, but can they actually back it up?  Do this or...or what?

 

Not to mention the legal mess it would create along with tons of bad press for “the shield.”

probably more so behind the scenes but I don't think they can really force it....

[Peevo]

1 hour ago, brianthomas said:

Maybe 10 years ago I was in the camp of lets build a new stadium downtown, it'll help bring back the city.

But now I think it just makes more sense to upgrade the current one.

Our Country is bankrupt, our State is essentially bankrupt. We could spend billions on a new stadium but it just seems like a colossal waste of money, for a stadium only used 8 Sundays a season. Yes it could be mixed use & it would have to be. But for a city like Buffalo I just don't think it makes much sense at this point.

 

 

This is essentially correct. All of the research backs the conclusion that taxpayer funded stadia rarely results in a boon to taxpayers.

 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/how-the-nfl-fleeces-taxpayers/309448/

 

Buffalo is in a tough spot.  They have stable, well-funded ownership that's committed to infrastructural, societal, and cultural improvements of the western New York market.

However, the profit margins are very slim on a market with limited corporate resources, and an exhausted pool of "regional" fans in Southern Ontario, Rochester, et cetera.  

 

This writer works in media, almost exclusively funded via advertising sales.  Trust me when I say this, every single possible client that would have any money to spend, already does.  There are only so many $100,000 Cellino & Barnes accounts to go around.

 

Effectively Buffalo has tapped out whatever advertising/sponsorship that they possibly can.  There's no money left.  And of course we always hear that Buffalo's tickets are among the cheapest consistently in the NFL.

 

It is ironic that the NFL has grown to be the most popular sport among the "big 4" North American sports using socialism - taxing the "rich" to give to the "poor"- ie - revenue sharing benefits from the big markets giving to the small markets.  That the most profitable sport in the country can use tactics reviled by the political right is a dark and sad reality that rich, old, white men who don't want to pay any taxes have become older, richer, and whiter, via policies that are consistently touted as dangerous by hardcore conservative wonks. 

 

The NFL wants Buffalo to build a new stadium so it can increase its profits, and ensure more money in the pool for all the teams.  Football is based on a completely unsustainable business model.  "Enough is never enough".  They must always make more revenue than the season previous.  At some point, supply will exceed demand.  It's only a matter of time before sports fails just like the big banks.  Give it another 15 years or so.  We've already seen about a 10% decline in youth football enrollment. Once that generation of players comes of age, and we realize there just aren't enough talented players to sustain the product at its current entertainment price (billions a year for nearly every TV broadcaster), sports is done.

 

What does all this mean?  I think eventually political leadership in NYS will cave and give the Pegulas (multi-billiionaires), their fancy new stadium, likely 80% give or take publicly funded.  

 

It'll be touted as an economic "win" for Buffalo.  Another notch in the massively over-hyped "Buffalo resurgence".  Yet the results will be the same.  It'll be a waste of government spending at the highest level.  

 

If NYS spent $1 billion on a community center on the east side of the city that ended up being used 10 times a year, that would be an outrage at the highest level.  Angry old white guy would cry from the highest mountain, or more appropriately, a microphone on WBEN, about how government only knows how to waste your money.  Yet when a football team wastes your money on billionaires who can afford it, we're all ok with it, because we love the Bills for some stupid reason.

 

This is all very long and stupid.  Ultimately, we all want our team, and we're gonna do whatever we can to keep them here.  Give it 3 years and Pegula will start crying about "competitive balances", "market size", "profitability", "viability" and any stupid !@#$ing buzzword Russ Brandon kept touting before he finally got the boot.