Mahomes Struggling in Camp

[Zerovoltz]

Just now, Aussie Joe said:

 

1 fumble lost.. 

 

He also scored 2 Rushing TD's which I didn't include originally so if we are counting fumbles then we should counting Rushing TDs as well so lets say 47 TD's total.

 

Every good QB ( and a few bad ones) stats would be padded with "garbage time" TD's and yards over the course of a season..

 

I would suggest if Mahomes or Allen produce a similar result over the course of this year we would be splooging...

yep   .....I am really looking forward to seeing Allen in the preseason....just so difficult to get any kind of good read on a guy in camp/practice etc....

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

You may be entirely right or wrong about Mahomes, Garrapolo...etc....I do kind of smirk at the love DeSahun Watson gets.....he put up some big TD numbers....and good for him...but he was also on pace for 30 Turnovers....given that a good portion of his his long TD plays were of the catch and run variety and not so much the long awesome throw type...he might not seem so awesome.....agian....we'll have to wait and see...but it's as if people discount the fact he had so many turnovers...

 

30??? Where have you calculated that number from? And actually plenty of his touchdowns were long throws. He is the only Quarterback Will Fuller has played with in the NFL so far to make him look half decent and for exactly that reason. 

[Zerovoltz]

Let me preface this by saying...it is CAMP....we don't know what they are working on, what drill they are doing, what skill they might be working on....we don't know if the coach said the ball MUST go here on this drill or if the D knows the play or not....CONTEXT is very important on these things....and even then...we are talking about CAMP.  Preaseaon games when the bullets are not scripted by coaches on your own team and you are matching up and doing some things....is a little better indicator...anyhow....from Chiefs camp today...

 

One of the picks came after Mahomes drew a defender offsides and had a free play. The defender had a free shot at him, so Mahomes (knowing he had a free play) forced the throw rather than taking a sack, knowing it was win/win. That's not a bad play by the QB at all.

Another pick came on the goal line with Mahomes rolling right. He had a very, very easy path to the goal line (I mean he literally could have walked in) but, as he explained after, since the QB can't be tackled he figured he would just try to throw it in regardless. He stated after practice that he would run that in during a game. So this isn't a play that would literally ever happen in a real game.

The third pick was a mistaken communication that Mahomes said was his fault for calling the wrong play. That's on him.

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

30??? Where have you calculated that number from? And actually plenty of his touchdowns were long throws. He is the only Quarterback Will Fuller has played with in the NFL so far to make him look half decent and for exactly that reason. 

 

Yes...Gunner Bill...I agree with that...especially about Fuller....I just can't get my head around Watson yet....he played really great in the New England and Seattle games..but had alot of good garbage stats as well.......I guess I just can't make up my mind on him yet.  I would like to have seen a full season of him since he seemed to be super good at times then not so much at others...(maybe I am just over complicating that he was a rookie and inconsistancy is to be expected?)  .....I tend to think that most of the time, after that much of a sample, I can make a decent evaluation .....Watson vexes me.....can't wait for the season to start....So many teams with new generation of QB's ....

[Klaista2k]

I can see Mahomes busting....Rosen is the one we could regret passing on.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Zerovotlz said:

Yes...Gunner Bill...I agree with that...especially about Fuller....I just can't get my head around Watson yet....he played really great in the New England and Seattle games..but had alot of good garbage stats as well.......I guess I just can't make up my mind on him yet.  I would like to have seen a full season of him since he seemed to be super good at times then not so much at others...(maybe I am just over complicating that he was a rookie and inconsistancy is to be expected?)  .....I tend to think that most of the time, after that much of a sample, I can make a decent evaluation .....Watson vexes me.....can't wait for the season to start....So many teams with new generation of QB's ....

 

I think a lot of people who had negative views on him coming out are just taking some time to see that they are wrong.  Watson is going to be good for a long time - so long as his knees allow.  

[IgotBILLStopay]

13 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I have not understood how the same folks negative on Allen talk about how we missed on Mahomes, how Beane gets fired for not taking Mahomes, etc.   His flaws are similar to the ones talked about for Allen, primarily footwork.   At least Allen ran a more pro style offense.  Mahomes ran that shotgun single look spread - has a QB that played that offense in college done well in the pros?

Minor correction - Beane was hired AFTER the draft - so he wont be fired for not taking Mahomes. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree about the different standards w.r.t Allen and Mahomes

[oldmanfan]

Just now, IgotBILLStopay said:

Minor correction - Beane was hired AFTER the draft - so he wont be fired for not taking Mahomes. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree about the different standards w.r.t Allen and Mahomes

I've addressed this twice now.  That's why it is so puzzling to see people say his and McD's job would be on the line if Mahomes does well.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I've addressed this twice now.  That's why it is so puzzling to see people say his and McD's job would be on the line if Mahomes does well.

 

The only Quarterback Beane's job has any dependency on is Josh Allen.  McDermott was the guy who passed on Mahomes and Watson but again.... if Allen doesn't work out and the Bills aren't winning that will make McDermott and Beane's seats hot regardless of whether Rosen, Watson, Mahomes or Kyle Lauletta for that matter are franchise QBs. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The only Quarterback Beane's job has any dependency on is Josh Allen.  McDermott was the guy who passed on Mahomes and Watson but again.... if Allen doesn't work out and the Bills aren't winning that will make McDermott and Beane's seats hot regardless of whether Rosen, Watson, Mahomes or Kyle Lauletta for that matter are franchise QBs. 

I agree with you.  From my reading other's don't

[Buffalo Barbarian]

13 hours ago, H2o said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24255909/kansas-city-chiefs-qb-patrick-mahomes-plagued-mistakes

 

Somewhere, Jeffismagic is on antidepressants 

 

but the guys on GR said he was a Hall of Famer and we should have drafted him !!!

 

 

[BruceVilanch]

13 hours ago, Logic said:

Figures.

I have Kelce and Hill on my fantasy roster. 

?

Bold move drafting before TC and pre season is over

[eball]

12 hours ago, JohnC said:

Why do you consider him arrogant?

 

Not Mahomes...Reid and Chefs fans.

[The_Dude]

10 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

I guess it wouldn’t matter if those INT’s were instead TD’s, right?

 

 

 

Itll matter on Sundays. 

[Magox]

13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Tedford ran the air raid at Cal. It isn't exactly the same as the offense Mahomes played in at Texas Tech of course it isn't... things change over 12 years. But the people who say top Quarterbacks can't come from wide open air raid schemes..... sorry to tell you but Aaron Rodgers did exactly that. 

This argument is more a matter of semantics, you can usually find the exception to the rule.  Having said that, I don't buy into the philosophy that just because someone comes from an xyz system that they are not able to succeed in the pros..  However, it should be a weighted consideration when evaluating said player. 

11 hours ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

I'm here.  My thoughts on Mahomes haven't changed because of this.  We expect Mahomes to throw some INTS...he'll take chances that Alex Smith simply will not.  He'll rely on his arm and make throws at times that he shouldn't make.  That's fine...that's part of the deal.  He is never ever going to have a 5 INT season like Alex Smith....very few QB's do.  I've said it plenty of times before when discussing Mahomes and Smith...Smith was a good QB who was especially careful.  He made it a point to take care of the football.  That isn't a bad tihng in and of itself...but Smith's QB rating drops from the first quarter to the last, and his red zone efficiency is HORRIBLE.  This isn't because Smith is an awful QB, it's because he is a very safe one.  At some point, Smith figured out that you can do well by not turning over the football.  .....what Smith does that you can't see on a stat sheet very easily is taking a 3rd and 8 and rushing for 3 yards instead of making a play to move the sticks, keep the ball, and the clock and score more points.  I will trade the 5 INTS for 15 Mahomes INTS if Mahomes makes 30 plays to score points or extend drives that Smith did not make 

 

If you read that article and consider that panic worthy, then you are reading into that what you want it to tell you and not what it's actually saying.  How many is an acceptable number in a practice?  How many do we know the defense did or didn't know the play call?  How many were the QB actually making a mistake?  Looking forward to preseason game action...

How do you like the Allen pick?

[dave mcbride]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Vick rushed for 676 yards and 9 touchdowns that year (hardly a "Pocket Philly Vick"), passed for over 3,000 yards for the first time in his career, and had a passer rating of 100.2.  What are you talking about? 

 

Garcia was horrible on the Browns and Lions before he came to Philly.  Squandered Alex Smith's career?  Smith had his five best years in terms of passing yards and made his only three pro bowls under Reid.  McNabb's career faded into oblivion once he left Philly and who knows how he would've done without Reid's tutelage.  Reid seemed to get the best out of every QB he's coached.

 

You're putting way too much emphasis on the playoffs.  Reid is an excellent regular season coach who has a horrible playoff track record.  His game management skills have also been comical over the years.  I don't see what any of that has to do with his ability to develop Mahomes.

This. Reid is a great offensive coach. Let's not forget that the Chiefs were absolutely robbed last year in the playoffs by the refs. 

[HappyDays]

12 hours ago, Zerovotlz said:

We expect Mahomes to throw some INTS...he'll take chances that Alex Smith simply will not.  He'll rely on his arm and make throws at times that he shouldn't make.  That's fine...that's part of the deal.

 

8 hours ago, Zerovotlz said:

I do kind of smirk at the love DeSahun Watson gets.....he put up some big TD numbers....and good for him...but he was also on pace for 30 Turnovers.

 

Definitely no biases showing here

[Jeebus]

There's a part of me that roots for Mahomes, but just because he grew up in the area I live in now.  He played his high school ball down the road in a smaller school.  However, the arrogance referenced is real.  Ever since he was drafted, it's been pretty bad and his whole family acts like their sh*t doesn't stink.  I'm a home health nurse and actually saw his grandmother at one point and the attitude was ridiculous, especially if you saw where they came from before.

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

 

Sorry but, tons of coaches draft players who were great in college and really high picks and they manage to do nothing with them. Under Reid the Eagles always made QB's look better than they were (Hell the Eagles still continue to do that) and in KC Reid coached Smith to a level in 2017 way beyond the game manager he was in San Francisco. Reid has one of the best track records when it comes to coaching QB's, you can't dismiss a guy who made Kevin Klob look great because "Every QB he ever coached was talented." That's such asinine logic. 

 

 

 

McNabb was the #2 pick in the draft.  If anything, history has proven that McNabb made Reid look good---after McNabb was gone, Reid's playoff futility began.

 

Harbaugh is widely credited with bringing Smith to that level.

 

Kolb was never "great", but his best years came after he left Philly.

 

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Vick rushed for 676 yards and 9 touchdowns that year (hardly a "Pocket Philly Vick"), passed for over 3,000 yards for the first time in his career, and had a passer rating of 100.2.  What are you talking about? 

 

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

 

Garcia was horrible on the Browns and Lions before he came to Philly.  Squandered Alex Smith's career?  Smith had his five best years in terms of passing yards and made his only three pro bowls under Reid.  McNabb's career faded into oblivion once he left Philly and who knows how he would've done without Reid's tutelage.  Reid seemed to get the best out of every QB he's coached.

 

You're putting way too much emphasis on the playoffs.  Reid is an excellent regular season coach who has a horrible playoff track record.  His game management skills have also been comical over the years.  I don't see what any of that has to do with his ability to develop Mahomes.

 

Wow, after 11 years as starter McNabb "faded into oblivion"?  He went to a bad Redskins team and led a top 10 passing offense. 

 

Garcia was a solid pro well before he met Andy Reid.  When called upon to step in as backup (for a handful of games), he played solid ball as he had well before Philly.  He didn't do well on crappy Detroit and Browns teams.  He did as well or better in Tampa Bay after he left Reid and Philly.

 

As for Smith, even Andy Reid credited Harbaugh for developing him into a "Super Bowl caliber QB", which is what Reid described Smith as when  he got to the Chiefs.

 

So much for that....

[Sky Diver]

That's why they have practice. I'll be concerned if it happens during the regular season.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Sky Diver

[NewEraBills]

16 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

From the article:

 

"Six of the picks have come during the three practice sessions in pads, when play is most competitive."

Even so, how many throws did he have on those afternoons?  If he's throwing 60-70 passes in those padded practices, I see no reason to make it a headline/news story.  And I would hardly call that struggling.

Edited August 2, 2018 by NewEraBills