Mahomes Struggling in Camp

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

You guys do realize that training camp really doesn't matter on a career right? 

 

I've heard this about enough Bills QBs over the last 20 years to know that it isn't true. Looking good in training camp doesn't necessarily mean anything but looking bad is not a good sign.

[machine gun kelly]

Silly to be petty.  Who knows how well he’ll do given he’s been camp for what a few days.  It’s not like Allen is getting rave reviews by everyone.  It doesn’t mean he will not do well either.  Who cares if Mahomes plays well or not as long as we beat them whenever we face them.

 

i don’t wish ill will on anyone.  Not even Brady.  I just want to beat every team we play.  

[BillsFan17]

13 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

You guys do realize that training camp really doesn't matter on a career right?  Settle down.  We have about 4 more weeks until the real thing

I find a great deal wrong with this statement when it comes to younger players in the league.

 

When I read Rodgers has a tough practice here or there, doesnt matter the man has a body of work that dictates otherwise results on Sunday.

 

However, when a younger player struggles especially in a possible starter role, there is some cause for concern. Mahomes was considered a project and he just might not be fully ready to go, but doesnt really have a choice in KC because they all but tabbed him to be the guy this season.

[JimKellyTryouts]

4 hours ago, Logic said:

Figures.

I have Kelce and Hill on my fantasy roster. 

?

 

Why would you do your draft before preseason even begins? As rare of an occurrence as this is, you're not living up to your username.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

 

Are there many arguing that?

Yes

41 minutes ago, aceman_16 said:

Wait...  Beane was NOT even with the Bills when they passed on (gave up the pick for) Mahomes.

Yes.  Which makes it all the more puzzling that you see takes saying he and McD are in trouble if Mahomes pans out.

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Which is why I think Mahomes won't fail.  Reid is a QB guru.  McNabb excelled under him.  Garcia won five straight games including a playoff game when McNabb went down.  He somehow turned Vick into a pro bowler with over a 100% passer rating after he got out of jail (his highest with the Falcons was 81.6%).  He then got the absolute best you could possibly get out of Alex Smith for five years.  You can even argue that he played a small role in helping Brett Favre develop into a Hall of Fame QB.  

 

I wouldn't bet against Mahomes because of Reid's past success based off him struggling in the first few days of training camp.

 

 

 

QB guru??  Nope.

 

McNabb was a college star at Syracuse and was the #2 pick in the 1999 draft.  Reid's playoff success began and ended with McNabb.

 

Garcia was a 3 time Pro Bowler in Sf before Reid stumbled onto him.

 

Vick was also a 3 time Prom Bowler with Atlanta.  Reid's contribution to Vick's career was severely limiting his running--which was a major part of Vick's danger on the field.   Zero playoff wins with "Pocket Philly Vick".

 

Favre was a star a few years before Reid graduated from O-line coach to QB coach in GB.  I'm sure Favre would not agree with you.

 

Jim Harbaugh unlocked Smith's potential--he went 19-5 in his last 2 seasons before SF got rid of him.  Reid completely squandered the fully formed Alex Smith's efforts with his continued playoff  futility and awful game planning and coaching. 

 

And now Reid has dumped Smith for a completed untested Mahomes.

 

It's really not hard to imagine a rookieJosh Allen outplaying a second year Mahomes.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

I'm here.  My thoughts on Mahomes haven't changed because of this.  We expect Mahomes to throw some INTS...he'll take chances that Alex Smith simply will not.  He'll rely on his arm and make throws at times that he shouldn't make.  That's fine...that's part of the deal.  He is never ever going to have a 5 INT season like Alex Smith....very few QB's do.  I've said it plenty of times before when discussing Mahomes and Smith...Smith was a good QB who was especially careful.  He made it a point to take care of the football.  That isn't a bad tihng in and of itself...but Smith's QB rating drops from the first quarter to the last, and his red zone efficiency is HORRIBLE.  This isn't because Smith is an awful QB, it's because he is a very safe one.  At some point, Smith figured out that you can do well by not turning over the football.  .....what Smith does that you can't see on a stat sheet very easily is taking a 3rd and 8 and rushing for 3 yards instead of making a play to move the sticks, keep the ball, and the clock and score more points.  I will trade the 5 INTS for 15 Mahomes INTS if Mahomes makes 30 plays to score points or extend drives that Smith did not make 

 

If you read that article and consider that panic worthy, then you are reading into that what you want it to tell you and not what it's actually saying.  How many is an acceptable number in a practice?  How many do we know the defense did or didn't know the play call?  How many were the QB actually making a mistake?  Looking forward to preseason game action...

Im just razzin you

 

Got nothing against Mahommes really and hope he works out for you......Im happy with the trade on our side.

[Augie]

6 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Somewhere jay_fixit is smiling.

 

Do you know where? May I suggest a bracelet with your home address on it?   ?

 

Too soon to tell, but the fans who couldn’t wait to get rid of Alex Smith may want to reconsider a bit...

 

It surprised me a bit he was there 5 years. Time flies when you’re not turning the ball over. 

 

 

.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Augie

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

QB guru??  Nope.

 

McNabb was a college star at Syracuse and was the #2 pick in the 1999 draft.  Reid's playoff success began and ended with McNabb.

 

Garcia was a 3 time Pro Bowler in Sf before Reid stumbled onto him.

 

Vick was also a 3 time Prom Bowler with Atlanta.  Reid's contribution to Vick's career was severely limiting his running--which was a major part of Vick's danger on the field.   Zero playoff wins with "Pocket Philly Vick".

 

Favre was a star a few years before Reid graduated from O-line coach to QB coach in GB.  I'm sure Favre would not agree with you.

 

Jim Harbaugh unlocked Smith's potential--he went 19-5 in his last 2 seasons before SF got rid of him.  Reid completely squandered the fully formed Alex Smith's efforts with his continued playoff  futility and awful game planning and coaching. 

 

And now Reid has dumped Smith for a completed untested Mahomes.

 

It's really not hard to imagine a rookieJosh Allen outplaying a second year Mahomes.

 

 

Bro I was about to write the same thing. Glad you saved my thumbs.

 

QB Guru. Lol.

[jr1]

Rookie QBs should play. Period

[transient]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

He somehow turned Vick into a pro bowler with over a 100% passer rating...

 

 

Do Vick’s amplifiers go all the way up to 11 too?

[billsfan89]

7 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Nice to see the link to the NFL power rankings for the next 3 years, contained in the article.  These prognosticators are lucky if they know what's happening on opening day.

 

3 years is a lifetime in the NFL. Year to year is hard to predict let alone trying to predict 2-3 seasons from now. The only long-term advantage a team has is a QB on a rookie contract and a QB in general (Even on a massive deal a very good to great QB is a tremendous advantage just the returns diminish when the contract occupies a lot of cap resources.) Other than assessing the health of a teams long term QB situation you can't prognosticate the NFL in any long-term manner. 

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

QB guru??  Nope.

 

McNabb was a college star at Syracuse and was the #2 pick in the 1999 draft.  Reid's playoff success began and ended with McNabb.

 

Garcia was a 3 time Pro Bowler in Sf before Reid stumbled onto him.

 

Vick was also a 3 time Prom Bowler with Atlanta.  Reid's contribution to Vick's career was severely limiting his running--which was a major part of Vick's danger on the field.   Zero playoff wins with "Pocket Philly Vick".

 

Favre was a star a few years before Reid graduated from O-line coach to QB coach in GB.  I'm sure Favre would not agree with you.

 

Jim Harbaugh unlocked Smith's potential--he went 19-5 in his last 2 seasons before SF got rid of him.  Reid completely squandered the fully formed Alex Smith's efforts with his continued playoff  futility and awful game planning and coaching. 

 

And now Reid has dumped Smith for a completed untested Mahomes.

 

It's really not hard to imagine a rookieJosh Allen outplaying a second year Mahomes.

 

 

 

Sorry but, tons of coaches draft players who were great in college and really high picks and they manage to do nothing with them. Under Reid the Eagles always made QB's look better than they were (Hell the Eagles still continue to do that) and in KC Reid coached Smith to a level in 2017 way beyond the game manager he was in San Francisco. Reid has one of the best track records when it comes to coaching QB's, you can't dismiss a guy who made Kevin Klob look great because "Every QB he ever coached was talented." That's such asinine logic. 

 

There really isn't any coach that takes low round picks at QB and makes them way better. What coach would you describe as being a true QB guru? Compare that coach to Reid and I think you can write off any coaches accomplishments by just saying that they just happened to luck into good players.

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

The parallels between Allen and Mahomes are interesting to me, especially because of how similar Smith and Taylor are as quarterbacks (who were both shown the door in order to make room for two raw/big upside/big risk top 10 picks)...I think Allen has more natural throwing ability and the brighter future, but it will be interesting seeing how the Chiefs and Bills bring these two along respectively.

 

Totally agree, and it’s going to be fun seeing them get their chances

[Da webster guy]

This article really doesn't say he's struggling at all, just making mistakes and moving on like any inexperienced qb learning how to be an NFL starter.

 

There is a very good chance that Mahomes won't make it as a franchise guy.   It's the same with Garrapolo-- let's see how these dudes do when they put together a decent body of work and NFL defensive coordinators start picking apart their game, learning their tendencies, and forcing them to play to their weaknesses.   They're going to get facepunched more than they're going to roll up 300 yard passing games.

 

Right now DeShaun looked like the smart pick at qb last year, he was lighting it up before his injury, but again--let's see how he does with defenses stacked against his strengths and he isn't an unknown anymore.  He might be the real deal, but let's be honest we go years between finding franchise qb's in this league, and having only a handful of solid games means zero in the NFL.  

[Zerovoltz]

2 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

This article really doesn't say he's struggling at all, just making mistakes and moving on like any inexperienced qb learning how to be an NFL starter.

 

There is a very good chance that Mahomes won't make it as a franchise guy.   It's the same with Garrapolo-- let's see how these dudes do when they put together a decent body of work and NFL defensive coordinators start picking apart their game, learning their tendencies, and forcing them to play to their weaknesses.   They're going to get facepunched more than they're going to roll up 300 yard passing games.

 

Right now DeShaun looked like the smart pick at qb last year, he was lighting it up before his injury, but again--let's see how he does with defenses stacked against his strengths and he isn't an unknown anymore.  He might be the real deal, but let's be honest we go years between finding franchise qb's in this league, and having only a handful of solid games means zero in the NFL.  

 

You may be entirely right or wrong about Mahomes, Garrapolo...etc....I do kind of smirk at the love DeSahun Watson gets.....he put up some big TD numbers....and good for him...but he was also on pace for 30 Turnovers....given that a good portion of his his long TD plays were of the catch and run variety and not so much the long awesome throw type...he might not seem so awesome.....agian....we'll have to wait and see...but it's as if people discount the fact he had so many turnovers...

[Aussie Joe]

9 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

You may be entirely right or wrong about Mahomes, Garrapolo...etc....I do kind of smirk at the love DeSahun Watson gets.....he put up some big TD numbers....and good for him...but he was also on pace for 30 Turnovers....given that a good portion of his his long TD plays were of the catch and run variety and not so much the long awesome throw type...he might not seem so awesome.....agian....we'll have to wait and see...but it's as if people discount the fact he had so many turnovers...

 

Looks like he had 8 ints and 1 fumble in 7 games so is that 20 Turnovers a season?

 

Also he was on pace for 43 TD's..

 

Id take that for a rookie season...

 

 

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Looks like he had 8 ints and 1 fumble in 7 games so is that 20 Turnovers a season?

 

Also he was on pace for 43 TD's..

 

Id take that for a rookie season...

 

 

 

I kind of like the idea of big TD numbers. Maybe that’s just me.

 

If it was really just 8 INT’s, it was in his FIRST 7 games. You’d hope he’d learn as time went along, things would slow down and the end of the season would be better than the first live bullets. Far too many factors to know for sure (defenses faced, offensive injuries, etc.), but I’d expect a guy to improve as he adjusts. 

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

QB guru??  Nope.

 

McNabb was a college star at Syracuse and was the #2 pick in the 1999 draft.  Reid's playoff success began and ended with McNabb.

 

Garcia was a 3 time Pro Bowler in Sf before Reid stumbled onto him.

 

Vick was also a 3 time Prom Bowler with Atlanta.  Reid's contribution to Vick's career was severely limiting his running--which was a major part of Vick's danger on the field.   Zero playoff wins with "Pocket Philly Vick".

 

Favre was a star a few years before Reid graduated from O-line coach to QB coach in GB.  I'm sure Favre would not agree with you.

 

Jim Harbaugh unlocked Smith's potential--he went 19-5 in his last 2 seasons before SF got rid of him.  Reid completely squandered the fully formed Alex Smith's efforts with his continued playoff  futility and awful game planning and coaching. 

 

And now Reid has dumped Smith for a completed untested Mahomes.

 

It's really not hard to imagine a rookieJosh Allen outplaying a second year Mahomes.

Vick rushed for 676 yards and 9 touchdowns that year (hardly a "Pocket Philly Vick"), passed for over 3,000 yards for the first time in his career, and had a passer rating of 100.2.  What are you talking about? 

 

Garcia was horrible on the Browns and Lions before he came to Philly.  Squandered Alex Smith's career?  Smith had his five best years in terms of passing yards and made his only three pro bowls under Reid.  McNabb's career faded into oblivion once he left Philly and who knows how he would've done without Reid's tutelage.  Reid seemed to get the best out of every QB he's coached.

 

You're putting way too much emphasis on the playoffs.  Reid is an excellent regular season coach who has a horrible playoff track record.  His game management skills have also been comical over the years.  I don't see what any of that has to do with his ability to develop Mahomes.

[Zerovoltz]

38 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Looks like he had 8 ints and 1 fumble in 7 games so is that 20 Turnovers a season?

 

Also he was on pace for 43 TD's..

 

Id take that for a rookie season...

 

 

He had 3 fumbles...but yeah...on pace for 43 TD.....really interesting to see how that plays out......he had 5 TD throwing VS KC last year....but basically 1 (or maybe 2) of those happend when it was still a game....3 for sure were just garbage time stat padding type of scores...in their game against the Titans..already leading 30-14 in the 4th Q...he threw 3 more TD....They all count..but I'm not sure the stat sheet tells the whole story. (as it often doesn't for many players, situations and games.)

[Aussie Joe]

16 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

He had 3 fumbles...but yeah...on pace for 43 TD.....really interesting to see how that plays out......he had 5 TD throwing VS KC last year....but basically 1 (or maybe 2) of those happend when it was still a game....3 for sure were just garbage time stat padding type of scores...in their game against the Titans..already leading 30-14 in the 4th Q...he threw 3 more TD....They all count..but I'm not sure the stat sheet tells the whole story. (as it often doesn't for many players, situations and games.)

 

1 fumble lost.. 

 

He also scored 2 Rushing TD's which I didn't include originally so if we are counting fumbles then we should counting Rushing TDs as well so lets say 47 TD's total.

 

Every good QB ( and a few bad ones) stats would be padded with "garbage time" TD's and yards over the course of a season..

 

I would suggest if Mahomes or Allen produce a similar result over the course of this year we would be splooging...