row_33 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 we are at the point of futility when we have something like climate change that is putatively proven by actual numbers, but you can't get a peer review or objective acceptance of the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 hour ago, gatorbait said: You realize social media is just people reporting stuff going on in their lives right? If the incidents are on the rise in people’s lives is it fair to say it is on the rise in general? You realize that "people reporting stuff going on in their lives" is subjective and self-selecting? And being a self-selecting sample, it is NOT indicative of the incidence in a general population. It's the equivalent of deducing that the American public has gotten significantly taller in the past 10 years by looking at the heights of basketball players. The sample has an inherent bias that makes it inaccurate. 1 hour ago, gatorbait said: If the incidents are on the rise in people’s lives is it fair to say it is on the rise in general? No...because you're not measuring incidents, you're measuring the tendency to self-report incidents. Those ARE NOT THE SAME THING. They are only the same thing if you can demonstrate that the rate of self-reporting is constant. If you simply assume so...well, then you're also arguing that the frequency of rape in the US drastically increased last year because of the #MeToo movement. 1 hour ago, gatorbait said: I’ve already said it was my opinion and I don’t have real data to back it up. Yes, I know, I pointed it out: you literally said you have no factual information on the subject. And you are STILL arguing about it. 1 hour ago, gatorbait said: Am I writing a research paper or posting on a football sub forum? Who is America? You're looking at a data set and drawing a conclusion, and doing it very, very poorly because you don't understand the limitations of your analytical process. It takes very little effort to get much better at it - knowing what you're actually measuring (i.e. self-reporting vs. police calls) would be an excellent start. There is a very wide gulf between "writing research papers" and "being an ignorant moron" that you could try to occupy instead. 20 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: Facts and knowledge are racist and have no business in a conversation about race and the perils that people face in this divided climate of racism that's never been more angry and upset. It's the worst racial climate in the history of the United States. You never saw this many tweets about police brutality in 1850... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 hour ago, gatorbait said: Your unreasonable standard for a Bills message board applies to you as well. You don’t just get to tell people their wrong without offering evidence. You saying social media is propaganda is only evidence of your conspiracy riddled mind, it’s not proof I’m wrong. You're wrong, and the proof is above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 hour ago, gatorbait said: Your unreasonable standard for a Bills message board applies to you as well. You don’t just get to tell people their wrong without offering evidence. You saying social media is propaganda is only evidence of your conspiracy riddled mind, it’s not proof I’m wrong. We've been offering evidence for two pages, you moron. We've explained multiple times that your conclusion does not fit your data. And your response each time has devolved, from "Does too!" to "Shut up!" to "This is a football message board, I don't have to be right, and you can't make me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 I’m arguing with pedants over the semantics. I conceded my stance pretty much right away and said multiple times it was my opinion and there isn’t data. Continue to pile on though, I need the extra motivation for the gym today. Was feeling a little sluggish this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, gatorbait said: Anytime someone declares something it’s their opinion. The only thing that makes it a fact is whether it’s true or not. Methinks you old dusty farts are blind to the ramped up racial tension in the country right now. Again, my opinion. 2013, Los Angeles after the Martin incident... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-23332602 2014, Ferguson. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30190224 July, 2016 Dallas. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/dallas-police-shooting.html That was a distinct period of increased racial tensions and riots... backed by evidence that exists outside of anecdotal experiences on social media. There was palpable tension simmering during that 3 year stretch - pushed largely by propagandists on both sides of the issue (groups like BLM and their counterparts on the other side of the spectrum). Had the numbers of police shootings of black men increased leading to those riots? Nope. Statistically they remained largely unchanged. It was the rhetoric and omnipresence of social media/media coverage of specific events (Martin, Garner, Brown et al) which drove the outrage. Since Trump took office in January of 2017 have we seen anything like LA/Ferguson/Dallas? I don't think we have... We've seen large protests in multiple cities (against Trump), we've seen riots (against Trump) in Charlottesville which you could argue fits your description - but even that was about Trump ultimately more than race. (The fallout was all about Trump's racism for example). The "racial tension" you're referencing in social media has existed since I was a kid (and I'm still on the younger side of things) before there was social media. DWB was a joke and a real experience for many. Is there an increase in these incidents post Trump? Or just an increase of the ability for people to cover/spread such events through social media? Kind of a chicken or egg argument, isn't it? That's why it's dicey to form such a sweeping opinion as "racism is on the rise" based off your unique social media experience. I think that's the point that people are jumping on. Your opinion is fine (in terms of being your opinion and you being free to share it/express it/support it), no one is arguing otherwise. I think they're trying to get you to see through the emotional manipulation of such an opinion because you've proven capable in the past of being intellectually honest. Racism didn't end when Obama won. Racism didn't end when Trump won. Nor did it start when Trump won, and the evidence that it's increased is lacking (sure seems stable to me). In fact, events on a mass scale involving riots and unrest happened more often under the country's first black president than they've happened under its first orange president. Is that a settled point? Of course not, we're in year 2 of Trump and the events I pulled all came from years 5, 6, and 8 of Obama. It's not apples to apples by any means. But it has enough substance to blow a hole in your working opinion... just my (unsolicited) two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, gatorbait said: I’m arguing with pedants over the semantics. I conceded my stance pretty much right away and said multiple times it was my opinion and there isn’t data. Continue to pile on though, I need the extra motivation for the gym today. Was feeling a little sluggish this morning. ... You aren't arguing semantics. You're denying the existence of formal logic, and declaring it to be an opinion. Good grief, I have never seen anyone so determined to defend a fantasy they fully admit isn't tied to facts. This is painful, and I'm actually starting to feel bad for you. Again, do better. I have observed that you are capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, gatorbait said: Do I really need to post all the videos of the police being called on black people for having bbq’s, swimming in pools, shopping and eating in restaurants? I know I’m younger than most here but those types of things are all over social media these days. Not saying it didn’t happen in the past but it’s happening more. serious question. How do you know it's happening more? Do you think this type of thing didn't happen before everyone has an H D camera in their pocket? How would you know? i don't know if it has or not. Used to,we would just say, what an awesome and move on when we saw something like t his. Now it goes "viral" and a lot of people make assumptions about how often it happens and assume it's the new normal. Edited August 9, 2018 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 25 minutes ago, gatorbait said: I’m arguing with pedants over the semantics. I conceded my stance pretty much right away and said multiple times it was my opinion and there isn’t data. Continue to pile on though, I need the extra motivation for the gym today. Was feeling a little sluggish this morning. No, you're not. You're arguing feelings trump thought. That's not semantics, that's a distinction that's foundational to the entirety of modern thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: ... You aren't arguing semantics. You're denying the existence of formal logic, and declaring it to be an opinion. Good grief, I have never seen anyone so determined to defend a fantasy they fully admit isn't tied to facts. This is painful, and I'm actually starting to feel bad for you. Again, do better. I have observed that you are capable. I’m not denying formal logic or saying you’re wrong and I’m right. I said I don’t have to adhere to formal logical practices right now because I am not trying to claim my opinion is logical or fact. An opinion, thought, claim, idea or any other form of expression doesn’t need to be justified and proven right just because you want it to be. People can say what they think or believe whenever they want about anything they want. You have the right to tear it to shreds just like we’ve all witnessed the past two hours. Do you understand that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, gatorbait said: I’m not denying formal logic or saying you’re wrong and I’m right. I said I don’t have to adhere to formal logical practices right now because I am not trying to claim my opinion is logical or fact. An opinion, thought, claim, idea or any other form of expression doesn’t need to be justified and proven right just because you want it to be. People can say what they think or believe whenever they want about anything they want. You have the right to tear it to shreds just like we’ve all witnessed the past two hours. Do you understand that? Translation: "I stepped in it, I look like a great big fool, and I'm desperately trying to backtrack." At this point, I'm willing to let you backtrack. Given the alternative is to continue lecturing a great big fool with **** on the bottom of his shoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 gatorbait with the completely unintentional A+ answer at "pretend to be postmodern" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Translation: "I stepped in it, I look like a great big fool, and I'm desperately trying to backtrack." At this point, I'm willing to let you backtrack. Given the alternative is to continue lecturing a great big fool with **** on the bottom of his shoe. This will really make your head explode. I still think racial tensions are worse than two years ago and the incidents of white people calling the cops on black people for no reason are on the rise. I still believe those two things despite the obvious holes in my logic. Isn’t freedom great? I can be dumb and ignorant and old turds can get mad for no reason. Edited August 9, 2018 by gatorbait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, gatorbait said: This will really make your head explode. I still think racial tensions are worse than two years ago and the incidents of white people calling the cops on black people for no reason are on the rise. I still believe those two things despite the obvious holes in my logic. Isn’t freedom great? I can be dumb and ignorant and old turds can get mad for no reason. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why anyone would want to hold a position they can't defend, and in the process scrap logic and inquiry in favor of subjective feelings generated through self-selected confirmation bias. That is some of the dumbest **** I've ever heard. But hey, I'm old. The kids today value "having any dumbass, unsupported opinion" over "making a well reasoned case, and being correct". I heard it here. And if that's actually the case, I'm in favor of letting the whole world burn, because they don't deserve to inherit it. You should have taken the out that Tom offered you. Edited August 9, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 48 minutes ago, gatorbait said: This will really make your head explode. I still think racial tensions are worse than two years ago and the incidents of white people calling the cops on black people for no reason are on the rise. I still believe those two things despite the obvious holes in my logic. Isn’t freedom great? I can be dumb and ignorant and old turds can get mad for no reason. I don't see any old turds getting mad here. I just see a young turd trying to develop without any pectin in his diet, and doing a pretty ****ty job of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 hour ago, gatorbait said: This will really make your head explode. I still think racial tensions are worse than two years ago and the incidents of white people calling the cops on black people for no reason are on the rise. I still believe those two things despite the obvious holes in my logic. Isn’t freedom great? I can be dumb and ignorant and old turds can get mad for no reason. You're actually celebrating being dumb and ignorant? "This is 'Murica, goddammit! There's no limit to how stupid I can be!" People like you are why there's a warning label on Pop Tarts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, DC Tom said: You're actually celebrating being dumb and ignorant? "This is 'Murica, goddammit! There's no limit to how stupid I can be!" People like you are why there's a warning label on Pop Tarts. Who is America? 30 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: I cannot, for the life of me, understand why anyone would want to hold a position they can't defend, and in the process scrap logic and inquiry in favor of subjective feelings generated through self-selected confirmation bias. That is some of the dumbest **** I've ever heard. But hey, I'm old. The kids today value "having any dumbass, unsupported opinion" over "making a well reasoned case, and being correct". I heard it here. And if that's actually the case, I'm in favor of letting the whole world burn, because they don't deserve to inherit it. You should have taken the out that Tom offered you. Whether you want to admit it or not, you and Tom have beliefs that are based on what you think, based on your faith or based on your experience. You don’t have conclusive proof for everything you believe that can be demonstrated on a message board but you still hold those beliefs. Do you believe in god perhaps? Be a hypocrite up on your high horse because it makes no difference to me. If y’all don’t like what I say ignore me and please don’t waste your time typing out long diatribes because no one cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDexter Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, gatorbait said: you and Tom have beliefs that are based on DC Tom's so called "beliefs" posted here are mostly deliberate lies for which he is well compensated $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. The Mossad has dozens of DC Tom clones all over the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, gatorbait said: Who is America? Whether you want to admit it or not, you and Tom have beliefs that are based on what you think, based on your faith or based on your experience. You don’t have conclusive proof for everything you believe that can be demonstrated on a message board but you still hold those beliefs. Do you believe in god perhaps? Be a hypocrite up on your high horse because it makes no difference to me. If y’all don’t like what I say ignore me and please don’t waste your time typing out long diatribes because no one cares. I don't have beliefs. I have empirical observations. And the only one I've made - and demonstrated multiple times, conclusively - is that your belief is groundless. 3 minutes ago, LaDexter said: DC Tom's so called "beliefs" posted here are mostly deliberate lies for which he is well compensated $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. The Mossad has dozens of DC Tom clones all over the web. If I'm a Mossad clone, then why can't you find one picture of me in Tel Aviv? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDexter Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, DC Tom said: If I'm a Mossad clone, then why can't you find one picture of me in Tel Aviv? I can't, but I'm quite sure you are alive and that the FBI should investigate you.... especially your 2001 tax return - the Cap Gains sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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