Allen already a factor in QB race ?

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Will you still be "in" after a 2 or 3 win season in which the Bills fail to score an offensive TD in 4 or more games?  What about multiple losing seasons?

 

 

This really disturbs me.  For all the change in ownership, FO, and coaching staff, the Bills seem to be handling their QBs in 2018 just like they did they did in 2013.

 

2013

1. released Fitzpatrick before the draft
2. signed Kevin Kolb as FA - history of numerous injuries over his career
3. drafted EJ Manuel in the first round of the draft
4. other QBs: Thad Lewis (udfa), Jeff Tuel (udfa)

2018

1. traded Taylor before the draft
2. signed AJ McCarron as FA - spent his entire career as a backup
3. drafted Josh Allen in the first round of the draft
4. other QBs: Nate Peterman (5th rounder)

For those of you who don't remember 2013, Kolb failed to make it even to the first preseason game, apparently tripping on a bathmat and suffering yet another injury, opening the door for EJ Manuel to become the starter as he then had such great competition.  The Bills in 2018 seem to be much more open about eliminating Allen's competition: they didn't even bother to sign failed starter to pretend to give Allen competition. 

 

The more I see of McDermott/Beane regime, the more I'm seeing the same old disinterest in winning football games often enough to make the playoffs more than once every 2 decades.

The 2013 strategy was a good strategy.   It didn't work, but not because it was a bad approach.   It just didn't work.

 

I see nothing wrong with what they'ye done here.   They've decided that Taylor wasn't the answer, just like Fitz.   They went after a QB in the first round.   You may not have liked the pick in 2013 and you may not have liked the pick this year, but that doesn't make the strategy wrong.  

 

After the 2013 effort failed, the Bills tried a different route - they signed a free agent backup (Taylor) but didn't draft anyone.   How'd that work?   Better to sign the free agent backup AND draft someone.   

 

The Bills are doing what they should.   Whether they made the right choices, well, we just have to wait and see.  

[BillsFan4]

43 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

How Bills QB Josh Allen is trying to fix his short-throw issues

PITTSFORD, N.Y. – Josh Allen knows his critics are out there. He just doesn’t know, or care, what they say about him.

 

He does know, however, why he struggles sometimes on shorter throws, and what he has to do to correct it.

 

In an interview with Postmedia following the Buffalo Bills’ fourth practice of training camp at St. John Fisher College, the 6-foot-5 237-pound cannon-armed rookie went there, in some detail.

 

Good article. Thanks for sharing.

 

 

Quote

Allen, 22, said he stays after practice – as he did Sunday – or comes out onto the practice field as much as 30 minutes early to “just throw those routes.”

 

Great to hear. I believe that a QBs driver and work ethic can often be the difference between their success and failure. The best QBs are also often the most driven to succeed, and the hardest working. They’re usually football junkies, as well. 

All 3 are traits Allen (hopefully) seems to have. 

 

Quote

As for his critics? Well, Allen doesn’t have to much to say about them.

 

“I don’t care,” he said, with a convincing smile.

 

Really? He doesn’t care even about the deepest knife thrusts?

 

“I don’t care. I don’t read any of that stuff. If I was in my phone every day, reading what everybody said about me, I’d probably go crazy. I mean, I haven’t read one article about what’s going on during this camp.”

 

Glad to hear this, as well. 

 

I like this approach better than Mayfield’s “read everything the media + fans say and use it to motivate me” approach. I worry that constantly reading and focusing on all the negative criticisms that come along with being an NFL QB will eventually get inside Mayfield’s head, especially if he struggles to start his career. 

[Soda Popinski]

15 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

I argue that they ARE sticking to that developmental strategy. Throw it all at him and see how he handles it and go from there. I know they wont rush him, they will play him when he is ready. why does that HAVE to be week 9? You know that when they drafted him their plan was to "wait until week 9"?

I agree with throwing everything at him and sink or swim from the playbook.  Just not throwing him to the wolves before he's mentally ready.  

[PaattMaann]

Just now, Soda Popinski said:

I agree with throwing everything at him and sink or swim from the playbook.  Just not throwing him to the wolves before he's mentally ready.  

 

I know this staff won't do that. If he starts, whenever that is, it will be because he is ready mentally and physically and proves to be the best option at QB for the Bills. 

 

There is no magical week or point in time for that to happen. Trust the process. 

[SoTier]

11 minutes ago, teef said:

then you are trying very, very hard to be pessimistic.  

 

The last time I looked, teams need to score more points than the other team in order to win games.  I don't see the current Bills being able to do that with much frequency for the foreseeable future.  What I see is a GM and HC who seem to  either dismiss offense or view it as a necessary evil.   It's like they feel that they drafted a QB high in the first round, made sure that he's got a clear path to the starting role, and that's all they need to do with the offense.

[eball]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

The last time I looked, teams need to score more points than the other team in order to win games.  I don't see the current Bills being able to do that with much frequency for the foreseeable future.  What I see is a GM and HC who seem to  either dismiss offense or view it as a necessary evil.   It's like they feel that they drafted a QB high in the first round, made sure that he's got a clear path to the starting role, and that's all they need to do with the offense.

 

I can't figure out if you're trolling or serious, because that is some whacked-out stuff you're dishing up.  There is absolutely NO evidence of either Beane or McD feeling this way, and it's actually pretty ludicrous for you to even suggest it.

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The last time I looked, teams need to score more points than the other team in order to win games.  I don't see the current Bills being able to do that with much frequency for the foreseeable future.  What I see is a GM and HC who seem to  either dismiss offense or view it as a necessary evil.   It's like they feel that they drafted a QB high in the first round, made sure that he's got a clear path to the starting role, and that's all they need to do with the offense.

Just how much change do you think can be accomplished in one offseason? They did a lot. If they hit on Allen and Edmunds, they have central pieces to lead both offense and defense for years to come. This year, we have a lot of dead cap money. Next year, there's plenty of free agent money and a full draft. Pretty sure rb, oline, and wr will be addressed.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Dr. Who

[HappyDays]

23 minutes ago, SoTier said:

2013

1. released Fitzpatrick before the draft

 

23 minutes ago, SoTier said:

2018

1. traded Taylor before the draft

 

You realize these are not the same thing, right? I was in support of keeping Fitzpatrick back in 2013 but we got the #65 pick in the draft for Tyrod. Are you saying you would have turned that down just to keep a middling starter on the team for an extra season? Good thing you aren't running the team.

[BillsFan4]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The 2013 strategy was a good strategy.   It didn't work, but not because it was a bad approach.   It just didn't work.

 

I see nothing wrong with what they'ye done here.   They've decided that Taylor wasn't the answer, just like Fitz.   They went after a QB in the first round.   You may not have liked the pick in 2013 and you may not have liked the pick this year, but that doesn't make the strategy wrong.  

 

After the 2013 effort failed, the Bills tried a different route - they signed a free agent backup (Taylor) but didn't draft anyone.   How'd that work?   Better to sign the free agent backup AND draft someone.   

 

The Bills are doing what they should.   Whether they made the right choices, well, we just have to wait and see.  

 

I agree with almost everything you said. And I don’t think this contest is rigged for Allen, either (like SoTier does). 

 

The only real real issue I took with the approach in 2013 is that they got rid of their proven starting QB before they had anyone on the roster to replace him (well that, and them choosing to take a 1st round QB in what everyone knew was one of the weakest QB draft classes in a loonnggg time).

Yes they signed Kolb, but he had quite the injury history already, and wasn’t the safest bet to be relied on to stay healthy.

 

It led to EJ Manuel being forced into starting duty long before he was ready. 

 

 

 

That is my fear in 2018 as well. I want to see Allen developed properly. 

I don’t want to see him forced into starting duty too early. Hopefully one of the other 2 can do well enough to hold him off the field until he’s truly ready. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SoTier]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

What makes a failed starter better competition that a guy who hasn't had his chance yet?  A failed starter is a #2 QB or back up QB....just like AJ McCaron is.

 

The key word in my post was "pretend".  The better competition is having a legit starter, even a low level one, so that Allen could have a real standard to measure himself against -- and Bills coaches and fans, too.   If Allen beats out McCarron and Peterman, it tells no one anything about whether he can be a decent NFL starter.  If he beat out Taylor, we'd at least have an idea of his base.  If he failed to beat out Taylor in his first TC (most likely), then he'd have at least an intermediate goal to aim for. 

 

[teef]

9 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The last time I looked, teams need to score more points than the other team in order to win games.  I don't see the current Bills being able to do that with much frequency for the foreseeable future.  What I see is a GM and HC who seem to  either dismiss offense or view it as a necessary evil.   It's like they feel that they drafted a QB high in the first round, made sure that he's got a clear path to the starting role, and that's all they need to do with the offense.

this just isn't true.  not everything could be fixed with one offseason, and i'm sure you'll see a more offensive heavy draft/fa period.  Tier...you know you're stuff, but you just have a tendency to take the most negative/angry approach to all things bills.  this bills team in no way reminds me of regimes past.  it's just my opinion, you'd have to ignore what's happening at obd to not realize what they're trying to create here.

 

let me put this out there:   it's not about this year.  

Edited July 30, 2018 by teef

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

The key word in my post was "pretend".  The better competition is having a legit starter, even a low level one, so that Allen could have a real standard to measure himself against -- and Bills coaches and fans, too.   If Allen beats out McCarron and Peterman, it tells no one anything about whether he can be a decent NFL starter.  If he beat out Taylor, we'd at least have an idea of his base.  If he failed to beat out Taylor in his first TC (most likely), then he'd have at least an intermediate goal to aim for. 

 

Would you rather have Taylor on this team and not have Edmunds? 

[teef]

4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The key word in my post was "pretend".  The better competition is having a legit starter, even a low level one, so that Allen could have a real standard to measure himself against -- and Bills coaches and fans, too.   If Allen beats out McCarron and Peterman, it tells no one anything about whether he can be a decent NFL starter.  If he beat out Taylor, we'd at least have an idea of his base.  If he failed to beat out Taylor in his first TC (most likely), then he'd have at least an intermediate goal to aim for. 

 

ok.  so before you were complaining that allen couldn't beat out two average/below average qbs in mccarron and peterman.   now if allen wins the job, it's because the bills gave him no competition.  do you see how you're playing this from both sides so that no matter what happens, you can be upset about it?

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

I agree with almost everything you said. And I don’t think this contest is rigged for Allen, either (like SoTier does). 

 

The only real real issue I took with the approach in 2013 is that they got rid of their proven starting QB before they had anyone on the roster to replace him (well that, and them choosing to take a 1st round QB in what everyone knew was one of the weakest QB draft classes in a loonnggg time).

Yes they signed Kolb, but he had quite the injury history already, and wasn’t the safest bet to be relied on to stay healthy.

 

It led to EJ Manuel being forced into starting duty long before he was ready. 

 

 

 

That is my fear in 2018 as well. I want to see Allen developed properly. 

I don’t want to see him forced into starting duty too early. Hopefully one of the other 2 can do well enough to hold him off the field until he’s truly ready. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I recall correctly, they told Fitzpatrick that they were going after a new QB and asked him whether he would be prepared to be a backup and to help train the new guy.  Fitz said he wouldn't accept that role; he wanted to start.   So, I think the Bills tried to do what you would have preferred, but Fitz didn't want it.   Same thing Bledsoe said when they asked him to backup and train a rookie.  

 

In Taylor's case, yeah, it would have been nice to keep him, just for the year, but McDermott knew Taylor wasn't his future QB, and the team was better off saving the money and getting a pick for Taylor than keeping him around because it would have been nice.  

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

The key word in my post was "pretend".  The better competition is having a legit starter, even a low level one, so that Allen could have a real standard to measure himself against -- and Bills coaches and fans, too.   If Allen beats out McCarron and Peterman, it tells no one anything about whether he can be a decent NFL starter.  If he beat out Taylor, we'd at least have an idea of his base.  If he failed to beat out Taylor in his first TC (most likely), then he'd have at least an intermediate goal to aim for. 

 

 

It's his rookie season.  You're putting way too much into this.  You don't always need top competition to be an indicator if a guy is going to be good or not.

 

Carson Wentz competed against Chase Daniels and Josh Huff.

Matt Ryan competed against DJ Shockley

 

 

I think you're way overthinking this.

[SoTier]

8 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I can't figure out if you're trolling or serious, because that is some whacked-out stuff you're dishing up.  There is absolutely NO evidence of either Beane or McD feeling this way, and it's actually pretty ludicrous for you to even suggest it.

 

I've noticed that you like to label posters you don't agree with as "trolls".  I'm crushed.  NOT.

 

  Get back to me when the Bills offense isn't ranked in the bottom third of the NFL in other categories than rushing.

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, teef said:

ok.  so before you were complaining that allen couldn't beat out two average/below average qbs in mccarron and peterman.   now if allen wins the job, it's because the bills gave him no competition.  do you see how you're playing this from both sides so that no matter what happens, you can be upset about it?

 

Yeppers.

**it means yep or yeah**

[SoTier]

7 minutes ago, teef said:

ok.  so before you were complaining that allen couldn't beat out two average/below average qbs in mccarron and peterman.   now if allen wins the job, it's because the bills gave him no competition.  do you see how you're playing this from both sides so that no matter what happens, you can be upset about it?

 

I never complained about Allen at all.  I linked an article in which the author claimed that as part of his reason for why the Bills will implode in 2018.   Keep your facts straight.

[teef]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

I never complained about Allen at all.  I linked an article in which the author claimed that as part of his reason for why the Bills will implode in 2018.   Keep your facts straight.

i've seen you post prior, i think it was yesterday, complaining that allen couldn't even beat out the qbs on the roster.  you've said this, then tried to back it up with that thing you refer to as an article.  don't be upset with other posters that this is just what you do, and that you have an outrageously angry attitude towards the bills.  you're deserving of your opinion, but we're all smart enough to see what you're doing today, and that ultimately you're just trying too hard.  you take every possible bad and amplify it, and completely ignore any good that happens.  

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

7 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I've noticed that you like to label posters you don't agree with as "trolls".  I'm crushed.  NOT.

 

  Get back to me when the Bills offense isn't ranked in the bottom third of the NFL in other categories than rushing.

 

1998 called and said they wanted their “not” back.