Bills stadium plans remain unclear

[Your Brown Eye]

5 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I'm old school I admit it.  I liked it when at football stadiums you went into the mens room and they just had a trench with water running in to do you know what in.  No frills.

 

 

Nothing is more masculine than standing around a hole with a bunch of your fellers peeing, yup

[Augie]

I think it was Mark Dominic on NFL Radio saying a lockout in 2021 would not surprise him based on the status of the CBA. I don’t pretend to know the details, but I wonder if/how that possibility affects the Bills planning? 

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Oh, go slide down the upper deck rail, you whipper-snapper.

 

 

 

 

I was at that game.  I was sitting in that red club section to the left of where he landed. quite the commotion when that happened. 

 

And, we beat Rex and the Jets!! Had a lot of fun mocking out and laughing at the Rex that day. 

 

Sammy, 3 catches for 157 yards and one TD.

[RochesterRob]

32 minutes ago, corta765 said:

I wrote an thread weeks ago that dove into the entire cost breakdown of a new stadium with research and numbers backing it up etc.. The Bills can get $200 million from NFL in loan type fund, they pledge $200 million, state 100 million, and city/county $100 million there's your new stadium. It will be a split job if its a new stadium that looks something like that.

 

Breaking down the city/county piece lets just say the city of Buffalo offers $100 million which is paid back over 10 years. There are 250k residents currently its breaks down to about $40 more in taxes per year. Now your absolutely right to question if that is the best use of funds but that is the breakdown. OR the government does a Sin Tax on alcohol or hotel occupancy etc..

  I appreciate the breakdown and the enthusiasm but I think the real world is a bit more harsh on all this.  The NFL loan will have to be repaid over time so that means the Pegula's themselves or through the team will have to shoulder 400 million which they have made no public gesture saying that they want to do that.  In addition they are probably under pressure by other NFL owners to milk the government so as not to undermine any future efforts by the NFL to get government money.  The state we can only guess about but I have my doubts about.  Erie County and the City of Buffalo I have the greatest doubt about even though they would be in theory coming up with a small chunk of the money.  There might be 250K residents in the city but quite a few are probably not breadwinners.  Let's say factoring in children and retirees that there only 50K wage earners in Buffalo with a considerable number pulling in minimum wage so that tax per wage earner who pays the property tax means an additional 200 dollars per taxpayer per year.  Similar story across Erie County when the contribution is figured by wage earner who pays the property tax bill.  It might be more fair to say the city/ county together versus the city alone would contribute 100 million over 10 years but will the two pull together or will one push for the other to shoulder the larger part of the bill?

[corta765]

6 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I appreciate the breakdown and the enthusiasm but I think the real world is a bit more harsh on all this.  The NFL loan will have to be repaid over time so that means the Pegula's themselves or through the team will have to shoulder 400 million which they have made no public gesture saying that they want to do that.  In addition they are probably under pressure by other NFL owners to milk the government so as not to undermine any future efforts by the NFL to get government money.  The state we can only guess about but I have my doubts about.  Erie County and the City of Buffalo I have the greatest doubt about even though they would be in theory coming up with a small chunk of the money.  There might be 250K residents in the city but quite a few are probably not breadwinners.  Let's say factoring in children and retirees that there only 50K wage earners in Buffalo with a considerable number pulling in minimum wage so that tax per wage earner who pays the property tax means an additional 200 dollars per taxpayer per year.  Similar story across Erie County when the contribution is figured by wage earner who pays the property tax bill.  It might be more fair to say the city/ county together versus the city alone would contribute 100 million over 10 years but will the two pull together or will one push for the other to shoulder the larger part of the bill?

 

Don't disagree with anything you have to say. The whole thing will be fascinating and the real world will be harsh on both sides. People need to be ready for fake threats of moving or government making too big of promises at points etc.. It won't be pretty but its going to have to go down.

 

Also even if just comes down to tax breaks or increases on taxes on things like soda, beer, hotel etc.. like other cities have done that is money which could be used for more valuable projects.

Edited July 25, 2018 by corta765

[PromoTheRobot]

17 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

Don't disagree with anything you have to say. The whole thing will be fascinating and the real world will be harsh on both sides. People need to be ready for fake threats of moving or government making too big of promises at points etc.. It won't be pretty but its going to have to go down.

 

Also even if just comes down to tax breaks or increases on taxes on things like soda, beer, hotel etc.. like other cities have done that is money which could be used for more valuable projects.

 

I don't think threats of moving will be made. But keep in mind most NFL owners wish the Bills played elsewhere. If we act like we're too poor, we're just proving their point.

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I don't think threats of moving will be made. But keep in mind most NFL owners wish the Bills played elsewhere. If we act like we're too poor, we're just proving their point.

  I don't know about that.  Cities like Indy and Cleveland I think more absorbed the new stadium cost with some pain versus actually being able to afford it.  Last time I was through Indiana I would say the road system had room for improvement.  Not I 86 by Salamanca bad but but needing some work here and there.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nfl/bills/bills-stadium-plans-remain-unclear/71-577066129

BILLS STADIUM PLANS REMAIN UNCLEAR

WGRZ's Adam Benigni spoke with Erie County Executive Marc Poloncarz to get some perspective on stadium plans for the future.

But but but I was following the dots!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, corta765 said:

Don't disagree with anything you have to say. The whole thing will be fascinating and the real world will be harsh on both sides. People need to be ready for fake threats of moving or government making too big of promises at points etc.. It won't be pretty but its going to have to go down.

 

Why exactly does it "have to go down"?  Is there some NFL rule that says we have to? What will the NFL do if we dont? Kick us out?  They didn't kick out KC, Chicago, or Green Bay.  Our stadium is newer than those.

 

just say no.

[Marv's Neighbor]

7 hours ago, stony said:

Hopefully the owner.

The owner is a very successful businessman.  He didn't get that way by bankrolling losing projects.  Stadiums are not long term money makers, and Buffalo does not have the economic base to carry such a project.  Not saying that's a bad thing because most of the US cities today are no better off.  At the end of the cost/benefit analysis, a stadium is just not in the cards.  Also nothing will ever happen till the state bonds are fully paid off.  This is not a part of Buffalo Billion!

[reddogblitz]

36 minutes ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

The owner is a very successful businessman.  He didn't get that way by bankrolling losing projects.  Stadiums are not long term money makers, and Buffalo does not have the economic base to carry such a project

 

On the contrary to the bolded, when a team gets a new stadium, the team's value goes up dramatically.  The big payday comes when you sell the team.  But if he just bought the team because he likes football and doesn't want to sell ever, it makes less sense.

 

they don't make the city money, but owners don't care about that.

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by reddogblitz

[Richard Noggin]

10 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

It’s up there with red hair.

 

 

This hurts so good.

 

The last bastion of openly accepted and overtly cheered racism is gingerphobia. Luckily for me, a natural redhead, I'm comfortable feeling like a pariah.

 

    --------------------------------------------------------- >      

[Doc Brown]

Anybody have any clue how much the typical NFL owner made in profits last year?

[BillsFan692]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Anybody have any clue how much the typical NFL owner made in profits last year?

Average team around 300 million in revenue 40 million in profit? So not as much as you'd think basically https://www.quora.com/How-much-money-does-an-NFL-team-owner-make-off-his-her-team-per-year

 

 

Although 40 million a year in profit adds up nicely over time.

[ExiledInIllinois]

15 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Thanks.  Seahawks tickets are outrageous too.

 

Bills build a new stadium, the price of football goes up exponentially.  No thanks IMHO.

Almost... $100 bucks to park in Chicago... Neighbor goes, can only afford to go on his company's dime... When, if tix offered. Want fresh air to grill/tailgate?  Price goes up.

 

That's your new NFL model. "Downtown Model."  Gr8 ain't it!  Forget about taking the family, a working stiff will be put in the poorhouse.  Watch it on TV for the Plebs.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[Tuco]

12 hours ago, corta765 said:

I wrote an thread weeks ago that dove into the entire cost breakdown of a new stadium with research and numbers backing it up etc.. The Bills can get $200 million from NFL in loan type fund, they pledge $200 million, state 100 million, and city/county $100 million there's your new stadium. It will be a split job if its a new stadium that looks something like that.

 

Breaking down the city/county piece lets just say the city of Buffalo offers $100 million which is paid back over 10 years. There are 250k residents currently its breaks down to about $40 more in taxes per year. Now your absolutely right to question if that is the best use of funds but that is the breakdown. OR the government does a Sin Tax on alcohol or hotel occupancy etc..

The $200 million G4 loan is a great deal. It's loaned by the league and repaid by certain ticket revenue that would normally go into the revenue sharing pot. It's basically free money from the other owners.

 

The problem is it's tied to the CBA. When the salary cap is set each year by a percentage of "all revenue," it's really all revenue minus these G4 loan amounts. It's agreed in the CBA that new stadiums lead to higher revenue and therefore the NFLPA allows the deduction. But that's the catch currently IMO. The loan only happens if the NFLPA approves the deduction from "all revenue." 

 

Since it's too late to be building a new stadium in 2019, the soonest we would be starting is 2020. But 2020 is the final year of the CBA, and whether it's a contentuous negotiation or not, there's no guarantee the G4 program or anything similar will still exist beyond 2020. And no guarantee with labor uncertainty the NFLPA would approve a loan anyway. I would say it's probable that a new or similar program will exist. But billion dollar projects don't like to deal in probable funding.

 

Remember a couple years ago - when there was still time to use the G4 program, the owners were pushing Pegs a little to get a new stadium built. Let's face it, 4-5 new stadiums over the course of 10 years amounts to almost a billion dollars that owners are allowed to invest in stadiums rather than pay out in wages. And most teams have taken "their turn" over the last 20 years.  Now we don't hear from the owners so much.  I believe it's because now that it's too late for the Bills to use the G4 loan program, the owners are now also on board for them waiting to see what new  or extended program will be available. So I think this, more than anything, is the reason for saying the stadium plans are unclear.

[ALF]

The state is unlikely to pay part of a new stadium due to budget deficit and Buffalo Billion already. County and Buffalo need money for infrastructure. They use to raise stadium money with tax free bond not sure that is still ok with Trump admin.

 

It would be unfair for the Pegulas to shoulder the full cost. Higher prices and PSL

 

Rams could have the most expensive seat in America

 

The $2.6-billion stadium Rams owner Stan Kroenke is building in Inglewood will be the world's costliest venue with a ticket pricing plan that would offer the most expensive seats in NFL history.

 

According to a document obtained by The Times, the highest priced personal seat licenses for Rams games could range from $175,000 to $225,000 per seat. It would far eclipse the $150,000 PSLs offered by the Dallas Cowboys at AT&T Stadium.

 

The license only entitles the owner to purchase a Rams season ticket after paying the one-time fee, which in a first for the NFL will be refundable — without interest — after 50 years. The buyer must then purchase a game ticket with the best club seats tentatively priced between $350 and $400 a game. The PSL can be sold to another party with permission from the Rams, a standard practice in the league.

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-rams-psl-20170831-story.html

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Put County Exec Poloncarz and County Comptroller Mychajliw each in front of a wind turbine, the electricity generated by those two barking at each other should kick in a healthy chunk of the cash.

[stuvian]

19 hours ago, teef said:

I hate it when people spell Mark with a c. It’s just not the right way to do it. 

don't say that to a French Canadian

[SoCal Deek]

Western NY is sitting on one of the most iconic natural landmarks in the world, attracting millions of visitors each year. If the various governmental agencies can’t figure out how to monetize that assest into creating a world class sporting and convention venue then they ALL need to be shown the curb! (And no, it doesn’t mean the stadium needs to be located at The Falls!)