Top 10 biggest traitors in Buffalo Bills history

[reddogblitz]

TO

Flutie

Hotrod

The Beast

Fred

Hulk Hogan

Antowain Smith

JP (looked awesome on that Locomotives suit)

Sammy

Mr. Big Stuff

 

 

 

[row_33]

18 minutes ago, LaDexter said:

The WIND = blew Scott Norwood's kick wide....

 

the coaches relying on the outer limits of a barely adequate kicker in a game of that importance

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Rex Ryan 

 

 

 

Incompetence does not a traitor make. 

[formerlyofCtown]

10 hours ago, SoTier said:

This thread seems to be the football equivalent of the fascist political mantra of "my country, right or wrong".   If professional football is a "business" when it comes to owners/managements replacing decent/older/injured/more expensive players with better/younger/healthier/cheaper players, why is it "treason" for players to look for better pay/better opportunities for recognition/better working conditions/more security?   Isn't that what tens of millions of Americans do every year when they quit their current jobs to take new ones.   Are they "traitors", too?

 

OP, take your stupid post and shove it where the sun don't shine.  It's disgusting. 

,Sammy is that you.  I would have thought you would be talking down to the little people in KC about their little jobs.

[boater]

Nice writeup. I would add the Jim Kelly atoned for his youthful sin of being a dick by returning and becoming the penultimate team player.

 

Could have done without Copyright notice (note: to be legit it has to have a year, as in Copyright 2018).

 

What?? Posted copyrighted material in full on TSW? That's against the TSW terms of service.  JK.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

the coaches relying on the outer limits of a barely adequate kicker in a game of that importance

 

 

 

Seems like they could have run 1 more play first ...

[greenyellowred]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

It wasn't even Jacksonville 's first playoff win ever over the Bills ...

 

Don't remind us of that fateful 1996 game, which turned out to be Kelly's and Hull's last game ever as QB and C. A sad day for all. I hate Natrone Means.

56 minutes ago, boater said:

Nice writeup. I would add the Jim Kelly atoned for his youthful sin of being a dick by returning and becoming the penultimate team player.

 

Could have done without Copyright notice (note: to be legit it has to have a year, as in Copyright 2018).

 

What?? Posted copyrighted material in full on TSW? That's against the TSW terms of service.  JK.

 

LOL! I wanted to add the year, but then I would have to go back and update the post each year.

 

I had never thought of the copyright rule either! Shhh...don't tell the mods. :-) Thanks for your support. I agree now about what you (and the others) said about Kelly.

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[BuffaloRush]

8 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

This list should ALWAYS include Dusty Ziegler and Leon Seals, period.

Explain....

[greenyellowred]

10 hours ago, Lurker said:

Stupid off-season thread.   

 

Thursday can't get here soon enough...

 

TC used to begin around July 5 in the 80's. The first game of the season was the Sunday before Labor Day, before school began.

 

Also, we need more threads in this dead period. I am trying to contribute a little to relieve others of the boredom. I am from the old BBMB, and there were a lot more threads there, even during this time.

[greenyellowred]

10 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Remember when the majority opinion around here was that he was a great signing and would bring the Bills back to relevancy?

 

Good times.

 

 

 

Yep, back then, the Bills used to own the NFL draft. We shocked the world on an annual basis and were the talk of the draft. For example, in 2002, we gave up our first pick on draft day and traded for Drew Bledsoe. Cincy wanted him too, but were only willing to give up a 2nd. I am surprised New England traded him to us, a rival in their own division.

 

In 2003, we shocked the world again by drafting Willis McGahee by taking a big chance on a badly injured player who had a huge upside.

 

And in 2004, we again shocked the world by trading up into the first round to draft JP Losman to be our franchise QB. People were saying Losman to Evans would be the new Kelly to Reed.

 

I also read a comment on another board recently that Buffalo owned the off season this year. We had four of the top five news stories this offseason (not saying I agree with the poster, but it is good to see the Bills being relevant nationally--any publicity is good publicity):

 

1. LeSean McCoy story

2. Ruben Foster story

3. Josh Allen tweets

4. Richie Incognito meltdown

5. Zay Jones tantrum

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Rico said:

#1 could’ve been Ralph with all the many threats he made to move the team to Seattle etc. Thank God he never carried through with it.

 

He was just trying to pit the Buffalo fans in their place and teach them a lesson by his threats to move the team. When I was a kid, I was raised by my paternal grandparents, who always threatened to send me back to my father's to live if they felt I acted up, since I was not their kid or responsibility. They were just trying to put me in my place. So same thing with Ralph..

Edited July 24, 2018 by greenyellowred

[greenyellowred]

4 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said:

I'm totally aware the internet did not exist in 1982.  I can, however, find lots of information related to the Civil War, which likewise occurred prior to the advent of the internet.

 

Yeah, but intricate details of stuff that happened in the NFL in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's are not readily as available. There weren't tons of publications about sports like there are now. The Civil War was a huge event and has been studied buy lots of historians. I couldn't find a whole lot about the Bennett-Bell-Dickerson trade in 1987, but I can find tons of stuff about the Sammy Watkins trade, for example.

2 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Seems like they could have run 1 more play first ...

 

Maybe, but there were only 8 seconds left and the Bills had no more time outs after the Thurman run. It would have had to been a pass and the guy would have had to get out of bounds quickly. With their offense, the Bills should have never been in that position in the first place. We handled the Giants easily in the regular season at Giants Stadium.

[The Dean]

Admittedly did not go through the entire thread. So I'm the idiot chiming in, not knowing this has probably already been covered. In advance: My bad.

 

#1 Gary Anderson. I'm a forgiving guy, but this POS tops my list.

#2 Fred Smerlas. Have I mentioned how much I despise Fred Smerlas lately?

 

 

Edit:#1 (if what I think might have happened actually happened), or just a hard luck dude: Ronnie Harmon. Without evidence I just can't include him. But I got my eyes on him.

 

Honestly I don't think ANY of the OPs choices fit my description of "traitor". They are simply players that made business decisions, just as the team does. Should a player who gets traded consider the Bills a traitor to him?  Just stupid thinking, IMO. 

Edited July 24, 2018 by The Dean

[metzelaars_lives]

4 hours ago, greenyellowred said:

 

Yep, back then, the Bills used to own the NFL draft. We shocked the world on an annual basis and were the talk of the draft. For example, in 2002, we gave up our first pick on draft day and traded for Drew Bledsoe. Cincy wanted him too, but were only willing to give up a 2nd. I am surprised New England traded him to us, a rival in their own division.

 

In 2003, we shocked the world again by drafting Willis McGahee by taking a big chance on a badly injured player who had a huge upside.

 

And in 2004, we again shocked the world by trading up into the first round to draft JP Losman to be our franchise QB. People were saying Losman to Evans would be the new Kelly to Reed.

 

I also read a comment on another board recently that Buffalo owned the off season this year. We had four of the top five news stories this offseason (not saying I agree with the poster, but it is good to see the Bills being relevant nationally--any publicity is good publicity):

 

1. LeSean McCoy story

2. Ruben Foster story

3. Josh Allen tweets

4. Richie Incognito meltdown

5. Zay Jones tantrum

 

 

 

 

He was just trying to pit the Buffalo fans in their place and teach them a lesson by his threats to move the team. When I was a kid, I was raised by my paternal grandparents, who always threatened to send me back to my father's to live if they felt I acted up, since I was not their kid or responsibility. They were just trying to put me in my place. So same thing with Ralph..

The “Josh Allen tweets” are a giant nothing burger (I hate that term but I couldn’t think of a better way to describe it).  The Zay Jones incident was more than a “tantrum.”  I feel like this one got swept under the rug pretty swiftly.  That video was freaking nuts.  People have completely moved on to just talking about him with regards to football and what kind of a season he’s gonna have.  I’d kinda be shocked if he doesn’t have another off field incident at some point.

Edited July 24, 2018 by metzelaars_lives

[Freddie's Dead]

16 hours ago, greenyellowred said:

I forget to mention Wade Phillips. He was fired after the Bills 8-8 finish in 2000, which was the first itme they had missed the palyoffs since 1997. Ralph Wilson wanted him to fire special teams coach Ronnie Jones, who special teams were considered among the worse in the NFL that year and also allowed the Music City Miracle Homerun Throwback against Tennessee after the 1999 season. Wade refused, and Ralph fired him for insubordination. Wade was a great coach and went on to success with Dallas, Hoston, Denver, and the LA Rams. I liked Wade, but when you disobey a direct order from your boss, what do you expect? Anyone else would have fired him too. I feel the Bills would have done much better in the 2000's with him as coach though.

 

My bad about Jacksonville in the playoffs. That's what I get for writing a post at midnight!

 

Wrong.  Bruce deHaven was the Bills ST coach at the time, and he was scapegoated and fired after HRTF.  That's when Wade brought in Ronnie "Pump 'em Up" Jones, and the rest is history.  After listening and bending over forward for Ralph for years, Wade finally stood up to him and was fired.  He wasn't a traitor, he was a victim of RCW not being a good owner.  For that matter, Chuck Knox does not deserve to be on this list.  Another good coach that RCW ran out of town.

[formerlyofCtown]

10 hours ago, greenyellowred said:

 

Yeah, but intricate details of stuff that happened in the NFL in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's are not readily as available. There weren't tons of publications about sports like there are now. The Civil War was a huge event and has been studied buy lots of historians. I couldn't find a whole lot about the Bennett-Bell-Dickerson trade in 1987, but I can find tons of stuff about the Sammy Watkins trade, for example.

 

Maybe, but there were only 8 seconds left and the Bills had no more time outs after the Thurman run. It would have had to been a pass and the guy would have had to get out of bounds quickly. With their offense, the Bills should have never been in that position in the first place. We handled the Giants easily in the regular season at Giants Stadium.

I believe Belichick had video of our practices and walk through.  We handle them in the first half of that game.

7 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said:

The “Josh Allen tweets” are a giant nothing burger (I hate that term but I couldn’t think of a better way to describe it).  The Zay Jones incident was more than a “tantrum.”  I feel like this one got swept under the rug pretty swiftly.  That video was freaking nuts.  People have completely moved on to just talking about him with regards to football and what kind of a season he’s gonna have.  I’d kinda be shocked if he doesn’t have another off field incident at some point.

Or maybe it was mental health related and people didn't want to be viewed as unempithetic scumbags.  

[Mickey]

17 hours ago, greenyellowred said:

 

Ok, thank you. I remember the latter part re Butler. And he stole a lot of our players too, like John Kidd.

 

But, he signed a contract before the pre-season with Buffalo. No one forced his hand. He was drafted by trhe Bills, who owned his rights. He was not free to work for someone else, unless he chose not to report for a year, upon which he would have to re-enter the draft. But he signed, then chose to play games and sandbag. That is what cowards do. Why didn't he just not report then and not sign the contract??

Because he is not stupid. He needed the Bills to cut him, and they did. No one forced their hand. They gave up their rights to him voluntarily. No one forced their hand. The Bills took advantage of an unfair system and got beat at their own game. Gary Anderson had a fantastic career and the Bills lost out on a great kicker, might even have cost them a super bowl. Anderson won, the Bills lost and you're left whining about betrayal decades later. Brilliant. 

[blacklabel]

21 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

The Jets HC job was supposedly his dream job. There were also rumors that the Bills front office called up other teams to blackball Marrone after he did us like that. I can believe it. A rookie head coach that went 9-7 (with a franchise like Buffalo) would be a pretty hot commodity on the open market, and he was only able to land as an offensive line coach.

 

To the original post, I'd put Marrone higher on the list. I'd also move Lynch way down (probably out of the top 10) and put McGahee up there. Lynch was run out of town by the media/fans and never said anything bad about Buffalo afterwards.  

 

To your point of the Bills possibly calling around to smear the name of Good Saint Doug... yeah, I can see that. Probably more like leaking stuff out "anonymously" and whatnot. He was a rookie HC in 2013, BTW, went 6-10 that year. And it was amusing to me that Jacksonville hired him as their OL coach because his OL in Buffalo had issues during his time here. He ran zone stuff with mammoth lineman (and he can't always whine that Whaley didn't provide him with the kinds of players he wanted because in 2014 Whaley drafted Kouandjio, Richardson and Henderson, all monster-sized OL, and none of them really worked out in Buffalo. I felt like Henderson had a chance to become a full-time starter had he not been sidelined with his illness and subsequent suspension. He's currently in Houston where he's penciled in as their starting RT right now, Kouandjio is a backup in Denver and Richardson is out of the league) and when certain OL (Richardson) weren't performing up to par, he wouldn't budge on changing the line-up. He let Richardson take his lumps for four or five straight weeks until finally putting Kraig Urbik back in at LG, where he was the starter for the previous few seasons and had outplayed Richardson all during pre-season but Marrone wanted to roll with Richardson because it was one of "his guys." 

 

As for Lynch, dude was straight up never really happy with playing in Buffalo. When he was drafted, he admitted he had no idea where Buffalo was and just the type of cat he is, he was going to struggle off the field no matter where he was drafted unless he was drafted by a west coast or California team. He's a bit of an odd duck, as we've seen, doesn't trust many people, doesn't like speaking to the media, etc. etc. I remember one of his first post-game interviews here and the dude just looked so uncomfortable, and that was a game they won where he had like a 60 yard TD run. Aside from the hit-and-run and the gun charges, I also remember him causing some kinda ruckus at an Applebee's, where he grabbed some lady's purse or grabbed money out of it. He would also come into bars/restaurants in the area with his own liquor and just order plain soda so he could mix. Just knucklehead stuff. I ran into him at the Hamburg Walmart in 2009, the week after Dick Jauron was let go and I asked him what he felt about the coaching change, he said hopefully it's for the best and that I should be a Raiders fan anyway, lol. He then told me that Poz (Paul Posluszny) and Kyle were also somewhere in the store but I didn't see them. At the time I was working for a group home and he gave an autograph to one of my guys which was cool because we didn't ask for one, he actually offered it, saying something, "Yo man, if you got a pen or something, I'd be happy to sign somethin' for your guy here." Made that guys whole year, haha, that's all we heard at the group home for the next few weeks was, "Have you guys seen my Marshawn Lynch autograph?" and then he'd go into his room, strap on his full-size replica Bills helmet and proudly show off the autograph. He'd keep the helmet on all during Bills games too. Bah, I'm rambling, either way, I think Lynch just had a rough go while he was here. Did he do himself any favors? Not really. But after all the incidents that went down, it was inevitable that he was going to be traded or cut to provide the ol' "fresh start somewhere else" for him. My bad on the wall of text.

[metzelaars_lives]

3 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I believe Belichick had video of our practices and walk through.  We handle them in the first half of that game.

Or maybe it was mental health related and people didn't want to be viewed as unempithetic scumbags.  

Oh it was definitely mental health-related.  The dude either a) did some crazy drug that I'm not familiar with or b) has some serious issues that I can't imagine won't resurface again.  I just can't believe how quickly this seemingly got swept under the rug.  We're on the same page.  

[JimKellyTryouts]

Great article, and even better discussion on the last several pages. I agree with lots of these and am too young to have any insight on some others, but I do think the rankings need a little bit of shuffling/categorizing

 

Anderson, Knox, McKenzie, and (later) Phillips may very well have wanted to stay here and right the ship if it weren't for Ralph being himself, so it could be tough to rank.

There could be a serious case to put Marrone at 1, even though him leaving was best for his career since he'd be tied at the hip to Whaley and his picks.

For personal preference, I'd bump Anquan Boldin up further on the list because last preseason was a huge kick in the nuts.

And for reasons previously stated, Jimbo should either be lower on the list or - bias alert - eliminated altogether. 

 

A case could be made to put Dareus on this list, too. He publicly cried about how we viewed him as a "dime a dozen" and how they don't want him here as badly as he or the fans want him in Buffalo - only to be rewarded $100M shortly afterwards. Whaley was delusional enough to say that he deserved this because he showed "maturity." Subpar stats, sailor suits and hats, and yet another suspension made it seem otherwise. Sean and Leslie very likely gave him a clean slate, but we all know how that turned out. And now he's having allegations for getting with an unconscious woman? Not our problem anymore

 

 

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said:

The “Josh Allen tweets” are a giant nothing burger (I hate that term but I couldn’t think of a better way to describe it).  

 

I don't think they are quite nothing. The fact that they are from so long ago and there is evidence that he has matured and developed as a person make them insignificant.  I certainly don't expect it to ever repeat.  Whereas as you say.... the Zay Jones stuff... that is more of a long term issue to be concerned by.