Top 10 biggest traitors in Buffalo Bills history

[greenyellowred]

1 hour ago, metzelaars_lives said:

That can't be true about Gary Anderson.  I can't find anything about that anywhere.  Who's to say he would definitely get picked up by another team?   Unless you're being facetious, which I think there's like a 50% chance of.

 

Of course you didn't find anything--it was 1982 and there was no internet back then. It was absolutely true, as a previous poster said here with more evidence. He was a clear star and I was thrilled the Bills drafted him. I watched him in practice and read news reports and he kicked butt (I lived in Dunkirk at the time, when the Bills held their training camp a mile away from my home in Fredonia). He routinely was making 50 and 60 yard field goals at the time in practice (they were all two-a-days back then), which was great for back in 1982. But I also watched (or read about) him miss every field goal in the pre-season, even though the Bills kept on letting him try an excessive amout of times so they wouldn't have to cut him in favor of Effren Herrera, who was just average. They wanted Gary, not Effren, and they were bending over backwards for him. I was only in 7th grade at the time and I didn't know why he missed all the field goals. I thought it must have been just nerves. But later on I learned it was on purpose. As the other poster said, Ralph Wilson did not pay him enough and Gary wanted out of his contract. It was rumored he had a deal already made with Pittsburgh.

 

EDIT: Here is Mickey's post, which supports my stance:

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/206943-top-10-biggest-traitors-in-buffalo-bills-history/?tab=comments#comment-5190460

 

Quote

Gary Anderson left because Wilson wasn't willing to give him a respectable contract. His only way out was to get Buffalo to cut him. And yet, despite missing everything in preseason, the Steelers signed him to be their starter the instant he was cut. I was convinced that his agent worked it out with the Steelers. I blame Ralph for A) not paying Anderson what he as worth and B) getting out played by kicker and his agent. To be a traitor, you have to owe a duty to someone or something. What on earth did Anderson owe the Bills? If the Bills didn't draft him, plenty of other teams would have. He was no traitor, he gamed a system that was stacked against him and won. Owners like Wilson gamed the system to their advantage and almost always, always won. Ralph got outsmarted, not betrayed.

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[Putin]

13 hours ago, greenyellowred said:

 

Yeah, lol. It is weird, but just in case, on the *very* outside chance that I decide to publish this. Though it probably isn't that good.

 

i don’t agree about M Lynch ( traitor)  

WTH were we thinking ? using our first round pick on a RB when we already had Freddie & Lynch on the roaster ??? 

[greenyellowred]

7 minutes ago, Putin said:

 

i don’t agree about M Lynch ( traitor)  

WTH were we thinking ? using our first round pick on a RB when we already had Freddie & Lynch on the roaster ??? 

 

Ok, maybe he wasn't that bad. But I am just upset since I knew we had a star, and he went on to Seattle to lead them to a SB and was regarded as the best (or close to the best) RB in the league for 4 years.  And do you mean Anthony Thomas above (the "A-Train")? Yeah, I can understand not needing to draft him, but it turns out he could have been a superstar for Buffalo like he was with Seattle (although they had a better team to support him).

11 hours ago, Frez said:

Should we mention Thurman Thomas? He took off mad and went to play for our #1 enemy at that time......,Miami! That was just weird! 

 

Yep, so did Reed, Smith, Talley, and Bennett. I'll give them a pass since they were loyal to the Bills for many years, and were near the end of their careers. I just wish Smith would've been a Bill when he broke the NFL sack record.

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[greenyellowred]

I forget to mention Wade Phillips. He was fired after the Bills 8-8 finish in 2000, which was the first itme they had missed the palyoffs since 1997. Ralph Wilson wanted him to fire special teams coach Ronnie Jones, who special teams were considered among the worse in the NFL that year and also allowed the Music City Miracle Homerun Throwback against Tennessee after the 1999 season. Wade refused, and Ralph fired him for insubordination. Wade was a great coach and went on to success with Dallas, Hoston, Denver, and the LA Rams. I liked Wade, but when you disobey a direct order from your boss, what do you expect? Anyone else would have fired him too. I feel the Bills would have done much better in the 2000's with him as coach though.

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It wasn't Jacksonville's first playoff win ever..... first for a few years, sure.  And also Marrone never publicly said he felt pressured to play EJ. He said he was uncertain about the direction of new ownership.  It is fairly well speculated that the Quarterback issue played a large part and as soon as Orton said he wasn't coming back Marrone decided to go.  

 

My bad about Jacksonville in the playoffs. That's what I get for writing a post at midnight!

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[RyanC883]

8 hours ago, SoTier said:

This thread seems to be the football equivalent of the fascist political mantra of "my country, right or wrong".   If professional football is a "business" when it comes to owners/managements replacing decent/older/injured/more expensive players with better/younger/healthier/cheaper players, why is it "treason" for players to look for better pay/better opportunities for recognition/better working conditions/more security?   Isn't that what tens of millions of Americans do every year when they quit their current jobs to take new ones.   Are they "traitors", too?

 

OP, take your stupid post and shove it where the sun don't shine.  It's disgusting. 

 

wow, kind of an interesting/bizzare take.   You can be a "traitor" to a team/city.  Anderson may be a bad example, as noted by someone else, but others like McGhee and J. Peters were traitors.  People under contract who either badmouthed the city and/or played poorly on purpose.  

[greenyellowred]

9 hours ago, Mickey said:

Gary Anderson left because Wilson wasn't willing to give him a respectable contract. His only way out was to get Buffalo to cut him. And yet, despite missing everything in preseason, the Steelers signed him to be their starter the instant he was cut. I was convinced that his agent worked it out with the Steelers. I blame Ralph for A) not paying Anderson what he as worth and B) getting out played by kicker and his agent. To be a traitor, you have to owe a duty to someone or something. What on earth did Anderson owe the Bills? If the Bills didn't draft him, plenty of other teams would have. He was no traitor, he gamed a system that was stacked against him and won. Owners like Wilson gamed the system to their advantage and almost always, always won. Ralph got outsmarted, not betrayed.

 

Agreed. Nowadays, as you know, there is a set payscale for rookies. But in those days, you played for the team that drafted you, even if they stiffed you on the contract. Or you held out. That is how it worked back then. Others teams had the chance to draft Anderson, whom we selected in the 7th round, but they chose not. He at least owed it to play for the Bills for his first contract and be grateful he got to play in the NFL. His sandbagging was immoral and like a slap in the face to us. You accept less money because you have morals. I did. It is costing me thousands of dollars on car insurance. But I play by the rules. He could have made us a great team for the rest of the 80's and beyond. I will never forgive him. It seems like in the late 70's and 80's, everyone was blowing off the Bills (Cousineau, Kelly, Cribbs, Bell, Knox, Smerlas, McKenzie, Harmon, Burkett, etc.).

14 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

wow, kind of an interesting/bizzare take.   You can be a "traitor" to a team/city.  Anderson may be a bad example, as noted by someone else, but others like McGhee and J. Peters were traitors.  People under contract who either badmouthed the city and/or played poorly on purpose.  

 

Anderson is the perfect example. That is why he in number one on my list. See my post a little above about him, as well as Mickey's, which I posted as well.

 

Back in those days, people were loyal. People did things the right way. Anderson owed loyalty to us, since we drated him. He played games and forced us to cut him. He was greedy and let money motivate him. I have sacrificed money because I chose to play by the rules. He is a POS.

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[greenyellowred]

8 hours ago, SoTier said:

This thread seems to be the football equivalent of the fascist political mantra of "my country, right or wrong".   If professional football is a "business" when it comes to owners/managements replacing decent/older/injured/more expensive players with better/younger/healthier/cheaper players, why is it "treason" for players to look for better pay/better opportunities for recognition/better working conditions/more security?   Isn't that what tens of millions of Americans do every year when they quit their current jobs to take new ones.   Are they "traitors", too?

 

OP, take your stupid post and shove it where the sun don't shine.  It's disgusting. 

 

In all the relevant cases I cited, those players acted childishly, in order to get cut. They don't owe us loyalty after their contract expires, but they need to play it out when they have commited. They need to play for the team that drafted them. And as I mentioned above, players didn't switch teams in the 80's like they do now. They stuck with their teams. Now it is different.

7 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Wow, grow a pair. Ralph really was cheap.

 

He was a little, and maybe he was behind the times in the 90's and 2000's due to his age, but he is also a HOF owner who kept the Bills in Buffalo when most others wouldn't have. He made sure they stayed in Biffalo when he passed. He also lent money to Al Davis when Raiders were in danger of folding in the 60's. He met Jim Kelly's demands in 1986 and signed him to a humongous (at the time) $4.5 million per year contract. He is a great man and has my respect. I'd rather have the Bills in Buffalo than no team at all.

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[Putin]

7 minutes ago, greenyellowred said:

 

In all the relevant cases I cited, those players acted childishly, in order to get cut. They don't owe us loyalty after their contract expires, but they need to play it out when they have commited. They need to play for the team that drafted them. And as I mentioned above, players didn't switch teams in the 80's like they do now. They stuck with their teams. Now it is different.

Oh definitely !!!  Watching Lynch becoming a super star and being ( IMO ) a major contributor of Seachickens success on offense is a tough pill to swallow as a Bills fan , 

[greenyellowred]

7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Lighten up Francis.

 

You're missing the most obvious one OP.  Lou Saban.  Twice.

 

Unfortunately, he was well before my time. But yes, I am going to research him now! What did he do to Buffalo?

[eball]

19 minutes ago, greenyellowred said:

 

He was a little, and maybe he was behind the times in the 90's and 2000's due to his age, but he is also a HOF owner who kept the Bills in Buffalo when most others wouldn't have. He made sure they stayed in Biffalo when he passed. He also lent money to Al Davis when Raiders were in danger of folding in the 60's. He met Jim Kelly's demands in 1986 and signed him to a humongous (at the time) $4.5 million per year contract. He is a great man and has my respect. I'd rather have the Bills in Buffalo than no team at all.

 

 

I think it has been pretty well established that in the early years of ownership after the AFL/NFL merger (70s and 80s) Ralph was not committed to winning and was cheap -- particularly with coaches.

 

Ralph single-handedly prevented the early 80s Bills from becoming a powerhouse when he cheaped out on Chuck Knox.  That sent the Bills into a tailspin until Polian came in and somehow convinced Ralph he needed to spend money.

 

There's a lot of kumbaya over the things Ralph did late in life to ensure the Bills stayed in Buffalo and that's great, but he had a lot of years not to be proud of as well.

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, greenyellowred said:

 

Unfortunately, he was well before my time. But yes, I am going to research him now! What did he do to Buffalo?

Quit on Ralph twice.

 

I'd also put John Butler up there.  Put us in cap hell and then negotiated his job with the Chargers while under contract with the Bills.

[greenyellowred]

7 hours ago, nucci said:

Ralph stripped Knox of all personnel decision making.....Cribbs wanted to get paid and Ralph wouldn't do it...Reggie McKenzie a Bills traitor....? Your list is a bit flaweed

 

All good points. I guess I was angry at the time, as a kid, that a long-time Buffalo favorite left for the Seahawks, even though he was still good as a player. His leaving, as well as Knox's and Cribbs', helped us to become a joke of team in the mid-80's, until 1988.Two consecutive 2-14 seasons in 1984 and 1985. Almost all of our home games were blacked out. I had to listen to them on the radio. Everybody laughed at us. My father had to apologize that we came from Buffalo to the admissions officer when I went on a college tour in 1987. That is when I developed my life-long inferiority complex.

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[Mickey]

36 minutes ago, greenyellowred said:

He at least owed it to play for the Bills for his first contract and be grateful he got to play in the NFL.

 

Gary Anderson wasn't given a shot at the NFL, he earned it. He owed the Bills nothing. If they wanted the most accurate kicker in college football, all they had to do was pay him. To me, it is immoral to pay someone less than what they are worth just because you can. Funny thing about not paying people fairly, in a free society, they go work for someone who will. 

[greenyellowred]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Quit on Ralph twice.

 

I'd also put John Butler up there.  Put us in cap hell and then negotiated his job with the Chargers while under contract with the Bills.

 

Ok, thank you. I remember the latter part re Butler. And he stole a lot of our players too, like John Kidd.

12 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

Gary Anderson wasn't given a shot at the NFL, he earned it. He owed the Bills nothing. If they wanted the most accurate kicker in college football, all they had to do was pay him. To me, it is immoral to pay someone less than what they are worth just because you can. Funny thing about not paying people fairly, in a free society, they go work for someone who will. 

 

But, he signed a contract before the pre-season with Buffalo. No one forced his hand. He was drafted by trhe Bills, who owned his rights. He was not free to work for someone else, unless he chose not to report for a year, upon which he would have to re-enter the draft. But he signed, then chose to play games and sandbag. That is what cowards do. Why didn't he just not report then and not sign the contract??

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[MJS]

I see your point with Jim Kelly, but to say he only somewhat made up for it is a little ridiculous. I mean, he did take the Bills to 4 Superbowls, you know.

[greenyellowred]

Just now, MJS said:

I see your point with Jim Kelly, but to say he only somewhat made up for it is a little ridiculous. I mean, he did take the Bills to 4 Superbowls, you know.

 

Ok, I admit he more than made up for it. Part of me just wishes he wouldn't have held out to begin with. Then he could have possibly been a better QB than Marino and Elway. Buffalo may not have been so bad then in the mid-80's. We had a very talented team.

[MJS]

6 minutes ago, greenyellowred said:

 

Ok, I admit he more than made up for it. Part of me just wishes he wouldn't have held out to begin with. Then he could have possibly been a better QB than Marino and Elway. Buffalo may not have been so bad then in the mid-80's. We had a very talented team.

 

Worked out for him, though. He was a star in the USFL, so when he came over he got a huge contract.

[metzelaars_lives]

1 hour ago, greenyellowred said:

 

Of course you didn't find anything--it was 1982 and there was no internet back then. It was absolutely true, as a previous poster said here with more evidence. He was a clear star and I was thrilled the Bills drafted him. I watched him in practice and read news reports and he kicked butt (I lived in Dunkirk at the time, when the Bills held their training camp a mile away from my home in Fredonia). He routinely was making 50 and 60 yard field goals at the time in practice (they were all two-a-days back then), which was great for back in 1982. But I also watched (or read about) him miss every field goal in the pre-season, even though the Bills kept on letting him try an excessive amout of times so they wouldn't have to cut him in favor of Effren Herrera, who was just average. They wanted Gary, not Effren, and they were bending over backwards for him. I was only in 7th grade at the time and I didn't know why he missed all the field goals. I thought it must have been just nerves. But later on I learned it was on purpose. As the other poster said, Ralph Wilson did not pay him enough and Gary wanted out of his contract. It was rumored he had a deal already made with Pittsburgh.

 

EDIT: Here is Mickey's post, which supports my stance:

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/206943-top-10-biggest-traitors-in-buffalo-bills-history/?tab=comments#comment-5190460

 

 

I'm totally aware the internet did not exist in 1982.  I can, however, find lots of information related to the Civil War, which likewise occurred prior to the advent of the internet.

[reddogblitz]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It wasn't Jacksonville's first playoff win ever......  

 

It wasn't even Jacksonville 's first playoff win ever over the Bills ...

[LaDexter]

The WIND = blew Scott Norwood's kick wide....