billsbackto81 Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, SoTier said: This thread seems to be the football equivalent of the fascist political mantra of "my country, right or wrong". If professional football is a "business" when it comes to owners/managements replacing decent/older/injured/more expensive players with better/younger/healthier/cheaper players, why is it "treason" for players to look for better pay/better opportunities for recognition/better working conditions/more security? Isn't that what tens of millions of Americans do every year when they quit their current jobs to take new ones. Are they "traitors", too? OP, take your stupid post and shove it where the sun don't shine. It's disgusting. WHOA! Someone had urine flavored Cherrios this morning. Are you telling me none of these ticked you off when they happened? I know for me Jason Peters and Doug Marrone really got me fuming. Also, to compare athletes to the average American is pretty laughable. Though I agree they should fall under and abide by the same laws we all do, they live in a world that is far from ours. Those tens of millions of Americans you mention, are they signed under contract when they quit after receiving millions of dollars in compensation? Most likely not. I will agree with you as far as the "traitor" monikor being off base. Its more like being classless. 3
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 Willis Mcdickbagahee belongs on this list 1 1
Cripple Creek Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 6 hours ago, greenyellowred said: This is my list. Who are your selections? Do you agree with the ranking? 1. Gary Anderson - drafted by Buffalo in 1982, he was regarded by the NFL as a future star kicker, but he missed every field goal attempt in the pre-season on purpose so he would get cut (even though in practices he dominated). Buffalo did finally cut him before the regular season, after giving many chances, in favor of Effren Herrera. He was quickly picked up by Pittsburgh and went on to become a top 5 all-time NFL kicker, playing 23 seasons and making 4 Pro Bowls for various teams. I remember the day he was cut. I was in 7th grade and was furious at the Bills for cutting him, knowing he would become a great kicker. But the Bills had no choice. Every time I heard his name in the following years, I cringed. What did he have against Buffalo? 2. Marshawn Lynch ("Beastmode") - drafted at number 12 overall by Buffalo in 2007, Marshawn went had two consecutive 1,000 yard seasons to start his pro career and was named to the Pro Bowl in 2008. But he decided he wanted a "fresh start" after all the legal drama he created in Buffalo (gun charge and a hit-n-run of a pedestrian), forcing the Bills to trade him. He went on to Seattle to win a Super Bowl and have four consecutive 1,000 yard rushing seasons as the best RB in the NFL. SMH. 3. Jason Peters - acquired by Buffalo in 2004 as an UDFA, Peters went on to become a franchise left tackle for them and made the Pro Bowl in 2007 and 2008. He held out prior to the 2008 season with 3 years left on his contract (!), since he wanted to become one of the highest paid offensive tackles in the NFL. He purposely played bad for Buffalo that year, despite being named to the Pro Bowl, and gave up the most sacks in the NFL. He forced the Bills to trade him to the Eagles, where he went on to make 7 Pro Bowls and anchored a vaunted running attack led by LeSean McCoy. 4. Jim Kelly ("Jimbo", "Machine Gun Kelly") - drafted by Buffalo in 1983, he thumbed his nose at the city because Buffalo had a bad reputation and was a boring town. He decided he wanted to play for the Houston Gamblers of the USFL. Sure, he made it up somewhat by coming to play for the Bills in 1986 (he had no choice, as the USFL folded the previous season), but Buffalo lost three years of his services while his main rivals Dan Marino and John Elway were making big waves for Miami and Denver, respectively. Thanks Jim for being a jerk. 5. Joe Cribbs ("Cribsus Carrius") - drafted in 1980 by Buffalo, he was named AFC ROY that season and had 1,185 yard rushing and 52 pass receptions. He was named to the Pro Bowl in 1980 and 1981 and led the NFL in rushing in the strike-shortened season of 1982. He then decided he didn't like playing in the Buffalo cold, so he broke his contract and went on in 1983 to pay for the Birmingham Stallions of the USFL until 1985, when the league folded . He went back to Buffalo before they traded him to the 49ers. I was not happy in 1983 when the news broke he was leaving Buffalo. 6. Tom Cousineau - drafted 1st overall in 1979 by Buffalo, he refused to play for the Bills since Montreal of the CFL offered him double the money that Buffalo did. He went on to become a star for Montreal that season, winning MVP for the Grey Cup (the Super Bowl of the CFL). He game back to the NFL in 1982, where Buffalo traded him to Cleveland for Cleveland's 1983 1st round pick, and 2nd and 3rd picks in later years. Buffalo used that pick to draft Jim Kelly in 1983, but he too went to play for another team! Ridiculous! 7. Doug Marrone ("Saint Doug") - named as the Bills head coach in 2013, he led the Bills to their first winning season in 10 years in 2014: 9-7. He then quit the team with 3 years left on his contract because he didn't like being pressured by GM Doug Whaley to play QB EJ Manuel and was worried about the ownership change. Team captain Freddie Jackson said his treacherous behavior was like being "punched in the stomach". New Bills head coach Rex Ryan said the Bills deserved a loyal coach. Marrone was paid his full salary by Buffalo in 2015, despite signing on to become as Assistant Coach with Jacksonville that season. He went on to become head coach for them and led Jacksonville to its first playoff win ever in the 2017 season. 8. Greg Bell - drafted by Buffalo in 1984 to be Joe Cribbs' replacement, he went on to have a 1,000 yard season and it was clear Buffalo had a star player. But he became loose-lipped and complained about Bills management and other players. He was disliked by all and he forced the Bills to overpay by trading him in 1987, along with their 1988 1st round pick and 1989 1st and 2nd round picks, to Indianapolis for only Cornelius Bennett, who had held out the entire season there as a rookie. Bell was then immediately moved to the LA Rams as part of a three-team deal. This trade cost the Bills dearly. Bell went on to be named comeback player of the year in 1988 for LA, but became a problem there as well, threatening to hold out and talking more trash about his team. 9. Reggie McKenzie - drafted by Buffalo in 1972, he made the Pro Bowl and was named All-NFL 1st Team in 1973 and All-NFL 2nd Team in 1974. He was leader of the "Electric Company" for the Bills and led the offensive line which "turned on the juice" for OJ Simpson. He was considered OJ's "main man". In 1983, he decided to abandon Buffalo and follow Chuck Know to Seattle to provide veteran leadership there. Such disloyalty! I was furious when I heard the news. 10. Chuck Knox ("Ground Chuck") - After coming to Buffalo in 1978 to become their head coach, he turned the organization around and led Buffalo to consecutive playoff berths in 1980 and 1981. But after a disappointing 4-5 strike-shortened season in 1982 and unable to come to a new contract after negotiating with Ralph Wilson, he abandoned Buffalo for Seattle, where he went on to lead them to playoff berths in 1983, 1984, 1986, and 1987. Honorable Mention: Anquan Boldin - The Pro Bowl WR signed with Buffalo as a free agent in 2017, only to decide the team was a mess before quickly retiring in the pre-season. Ironically, the Bills were 9-7 and made the playoffs that year. Yep, Buffalo was a big mess that year. The joke was on Boldin, who had a chance to end his career as a winner. All rights reserved. Copyright greenyellowred. Wow, grow a pair. Ralph really was cheap.
Bob in STL Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Smerlas is at the top of any list. Mostly for his actions and comments after he left. I wish he was not on the wall and I disagree with the revisionist history on him ... Jeff wright was the better player when Fred was let go. The problem he had was no one else in he rotation to spell him. Marrone, Cousineau, and Gary Anderson are also top tier traitors. Edited July 23, 2018 by Bob in STL 1
JohnC Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It wasn't Jacksonville's first playoff win ever..... first for a few years, sure. And also Marrone never publicly said he felt pressured to play EJ. He said he was uncertain about the direction of new ownership. It is fairly well speculated that the Quarterback issue played a large part and as soon as Orton said he wasn't coming back Marrone decided to go. Marrone not only didn't have confidence in his GM, he had open disdain for him. He didn't want his career to be dependent on him because he had little faith in him. From Marrone's perspective the qb situation that he was left with was untenable and intolerable. He was right! The lassitude toward the qb position that the GM exhibited was not only a career crushing mistake, it was both perplexing and weird. The moral of the story is: Self-sabotaging is self-defeating. 1 1
BuffaloRush Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 This was a really fun list with some great names. I would also add Willis McGahee and maybe Donte Whitner 2
Sky Diver Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 Benedict Arnold. Oh, wait, he's a former Patriot. 2 3
GunnerBill Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 21 minutes ago, JohnC said: Marrone not only didn't have confidence in his GM, he had open disdain for him. He didn't want his career to be dependent on him because he had little faith in him. From Marrone's perspective the qb situation that he was left with was untenable and intolerable. He was right! The lassitude toward the qb position that the GM exhibited was not only a career crushing mistake, it was both perplexing and weird. The moral of the story is: Self-sabotaging is self-defeating. Marrone and Whaley didn't get on that much was obvious to anyone who can observe body language. Marrone, allegedly, wanted Whaley out and to be given personnel control. While I think, and always thought when he was here, Doug was a pretty good Head Coach I also think Pegula had reasonable grounds to be wary of giving him such control. 1
Buffalo86 Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 I always thought Lynch just wanted to win, which clearly wasn't going to happen with the likes of Dick Jauron and Chan Gailey running the show. I also think the friction between Ryan & Whaley + McDermott forcing Whaley out lent credence to Marrone's decision to bolt. Those guys should be listed under the heading "players/coaches who weren't content to go down with a sinking ship". Good for them. 1
JohnC Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Marrone and Whaley didn't get on that much was obvious to anyone who can observe body language. Marrone, allegedly, wanted Whaley out and to be given personnel control. While I think, and always thought when he was here, Doug was a pretty good Head Coach I also think Pegula had reasonable grounds to be wary of giving him such control. You and I are in accord that Marrone did a good job with the Bills. The one trait that his teams were noted for was that they played hard for him, even when outgunned. He was a tough coach and while he was here his players responded to his hard ways. However, the problem with a coach like that is how long before the players get tired of the ogre act. Players are more tolerant when things are going well. However, when things are not going so well then what was tolerable before becomes less tolerable. My view of Marrone is that he is an old-school, meat and potato type coach. From a strategy standpoint he is not going to outsmart you. That's not what he is capable of or aiming for. What he wants to do is out-tough you. Marrone took a big risk in opting out in Buffalo. The risk paid off. He is in a good situation in Jacksonville. On the other hand he has to be careful because he is is now working for a tough Irishman, Coughlin, who is not going to take any BS from him. 1
oldmanfan Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 1 hour ago, SoTier said: This thread seems to be the football equivalent of the fascist political mantra of "my country, right or wrong". If professional football is a "business" when it comes to owners/managements replacing decent/older/injured/more expensive players with better/younger/healthier/cheaper players, why is it "treason" for players to look for better pay/better opportunities for recognition/better working conditions/more security? Isn't that what tens of millions of Americans do every year when they quit their current jobs to take new ones. Are they "traitors", too? OP, take your stupid post and shove it where the sun don't shine. It's disgusting. Lighten up Francis. You're missing the most obvious one OP. Lou Saban. Twice. 1
nucci Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 7 hours ago, greenyellowred said: This is my list. Who are your selections? Do you agree with the ranking? 1. Gary Anderson - drafted by Buffalo in 1982, he was regarded by the NFL as a future star kicker, but he missed every field goal attempt in the pre-season on purpose so he would get cut (even though in practices he dominated). Buffalo did finally cut him before the regular season, after giving many chances, in favor of Effren Herrera. He was quickly picked up by Pittsburgh and went on to become a top 5 all-time NFL kicker, playing 23 seasons and making 4 Pro Bowls for various teams. I remember the day he was cut. I was in 7th grade and was furious at the Bills for cutting him, knowing he would become a great kicker. But the Bills had no choice. Every time I heard his name in the following years, I cringed. What did he have against Buffalo? 2. Marshawn Lynch ("Beastmode") - drafted at number 12 overall by Buffalo in 2007, Marshawn went had two consecutive 1,000 yard seasons to start his pro career and was named to the Pro Bowl in 2008. But he decided he wanted a "fresh start" after all the legal drama he created in Buffalo (gun charge and a hit-n-run of a pedestrian), forcing the Bills to trade him. He went on to Seattle to win a Super Bowl and have four consecutive 1,000 yard rushing seasons as the best RB in the NFL. SMH. 3. Jason Peters - acquired by Buffalo in 2004 as an UDFA, Peters went on to become a franchise left tackle for them and made the Pro Bowl in 2007 and 2008. He held out prior to the 2008 season with 3 years left on his contract (!), since he wanted to become one of the highest paid offensive tackles in the NFL. He purposely played bad for Buffalo that year, despite being named to the Pro Bowl, and gave up the most sacks in the NFL. He forced the Bills to trade him to the Eagles, where he went on to make 7 Pro Bowls and anchored a vaunted running attack led by LeSean McCoy. 4. Jim Kelly ("Jimbo", "Machine Gun Kelly") - drafted by Buffalo in 1983, he thumbed his nose at the city because Buffalo had a bad reputation and was a boring town. He decided he wanted to play for the Houston Gamblers of the USFL. Sure, he made it up somewhat by coming to play for the Bills in 1986 (he had no choice, as the USFL folded the previous season), but Buffalo lost three years of his services while his main rivals Dan Marino and John Elway were making big waves for Miami and Denver, respectively. Thanks Jim for being a jerk. 5. Joe Cribbs ("Cribsus Carrius") - drafted in 1980 by Buffalo, he was named AFC ROY that season and had 1,185 yard rushing and 52 pass receptions. He was named to the Pro Bowl in 1980 and 1981 and led the NFL in rushing in the strike-shortened season of 1982. He then decided he didn't like playing in the Buffalo cold, so he broke his contract and went on in 1983 to pay for the Birmingham Stallions of the USFL until 1985, when the league folded . He went back to Buffalo before they traded him to the 49ers. I was not happy in 1983 when the news broke he was leaving Buffalo. 6. Tom Cousineau - drafted 1st overall in 1979 by Buffalo, he refused to play for the Bills since Montreal of the CFL offered him double the money that Buffalo did. He went on to become a star for Montreal that season, winning MVP for the Grey Cup (the Super Bowl of the CFL). He game back to the NFL in 1982, where Buffalo traded him to Cleveland for Cleveland's 1983 1st round pick, and 2nd and 3rd picks in later years. Buffalo used that pick to draft Jim Kelly in 1983, but he too went to play for another team! Ridiculous! 7. Doug Marrone ("Saint Doug") - named as the Bills head coach in 2013, he led the Bills to their first winning season in 10 years in 2014: 9-7. He then quit the team with 3 years left on his contract because he didn't like being pressured by GM Doug Whaley to play QB EJ Manuel and was worried about the ownership change. Team captain Freddie Jackson said his treacherous behavior was like being "punched in the stomach". New Bills head coach Rex Ryan said the Bills deserved a loyal coach. Marrone was paid his full salary by Buffalo in 2015, despite signing on to become as Assistant Coach with Jacksonville that season. He went on to become head coach for them and led Jacksonville to its first playoff win ever in the 2017 season. 8. Greg Bell - drafted by Buffalo in 1984 to be Joe Cribbs' replacement, he went on to have a 1,000 yard season and it was clear Buffalo had a star player. But he became loose-lipped and complained about Bills management and other players. He was disliked by all and he forced the Bills to overpay by trading him in 1987, along with their 1988 1st round pick and 1989 1st and 2nd round picks, to Indianapolis for only Cornelius Bennett, who had held out the entire season there as a rookie. Bell was then immediately moved to the LA Rams as part of a three-team deal. This trade cost the Bills dearly. Bell went on to be named comeback player of the year in 1988 for LA, but became a problem there as well, threatening to hold out and talking more trash about his team. 9. Reggie McKenzie - drafted by Buffalo in 1972, he made the Pro Bowl and was named All-NFL 1st Team in 1973 and All-NFL 2nd Team in 1974. He was leader of the "Electric Company" for the Bills and led the offensive line which "turned on the juice" for OJ Simpson. He was considered OJ's "main man". In 1983, he decided to abandon Buffalo and follow Chuck Know to Seattle to provide veteran leadership there. Such disloyalty! I was furious when I heard the news. 10. Chuck Knox ("Ground Chuck") - After coming to Buffalo in 1978 to become their head coach, he turned the organization around and led Buffalo to consecutive playoff berths in 1980 and 1981. But after a disappointing 4-5 strike-shortened season in 1982 and unable to come to a new contract after negotiating with Ralph Wilson, he abandoned Buffalo for Seattle, where he went on to lead them to playoff berths in 1983, 1984, 1986, and 1987. Honorable Mention: Anquan Boldin - The Pro Bowl WR signed with Buffalo as a free agent in 2017, only to decide the team was a mess before quickly retiring in the pre-season. Ironically, the Bills were 9-7 and made the playoffs that year. Yep, Buffalo was a big mess that year. The joke was on Boldin, who had a chance to end his career as a winner. All rights reserved. Copyright greenyellowred. Ralph stripped Knox of all personnel decision making.....Cribbs wanted to get paid and Ralph wouldn't do it...Reggie McKenzie a Bills traitor....? Your list is a bit flaweed 6
Orlando Buffalo Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 I think that any list that has Jim Kelly as a Bills traitor is suspect-few guys now represent the Bills as well as he does. Whatever ill will he had built up he has more than rectified. I also do not think Marshawn belongs here since I feel it was simply a fish far out of water with his being here. I would replace them with: Willis Mcgahee- We helped build his career and then he left as quickly as possible and bad mouthed us on the way out. Billy Joe Hobert- He could not even pay enough attention to read the playbook-the Bills had to cut him so the rest of players did not kill him. I have a personal one that makes my list: I was at ESPN club at disney back when we had Travis Henry when he was on Bills. During interview he was asked about his 5 year plan and he stated in 5 years he plans to be on the Dallas Cowboys. I could not beleive he already had a plan to be on another team while on Bills and would publicly acknowledge it. 1
GunnerBill Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, CBend said: From what I remember, the main part of his gripe was that his contract was signed while he was playing Right Tackle. He was then moved to Left Tackle, which at the time made way more money. He also was only the 3rd highest paid offensive lineman on his own team, let alone in the NFL. Worth noting he's likely going to be a Hall of Famer. Yea of all the guys the Bills have failed to pay in the last 15 or so years the one that I always thought they got wrong was Peters. Hindsight doesn't make that decision look any better. 2 1
Mark80 Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 Chris Hogan and Stephon Gilmore should at least be on this list, maybe as a combined entry. 1
corta765 Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 8 hours ago, greenyellowred said: This is my list. Who are your selections? Do you agree with the ranking? 2. Marshawn Lynch ("Beastmode") - drafted at number 12 overall by Buffalo in 2007, Marshawn went had two consecutive 1,000 yard seasons to start his pro career and was named to the Pro Bowl in 2008. But he decided he wanted a "fresh start" after all the legal drama he created in Buffalo (gun charge and a hit-n-run of a pedestrian), forcing the Bills to trade him. He went on to Seattle to win a Super Bowl and have four consecutive 1,000 yard rushing seasons as the best RB in the NFL. SMH. 3. Jason Peters - acquired by Buffalo in 2004 as an UDFA, Peters went on to become a franchise left tackle for them and made the Pro Bowl in 2007 and 2008. He held out prior to the 2008 season with 3 years left on his contract (!), since he wanted to become one of the highest paid offensive tackles in the NFL. He purposely played bad for Buffalo that year, despite being named to the Pro Bowl, and gave up the most sacks in the NFL. He forced the Bills to trade him to the Eagles, where he went on to make 7 Pro Bowls and anchored a vaunted running attack led by LeSean McCoy. 4. Jim Kelly ("Jimbo", "Machine Gun Kelly") - drafted by Buffalo in 1983, he thumbed his nose at the city because Buffalo had a bad reputation and was a boring town. He decided he wanted to play for the Houston Gamblers of the USFL. Sure, he made it up somewhat by coming to play for the Bills in 1986 (he had no choice, as the USFL folded the previous season), but Buffalo lost three years of his services while his main rivals Dan Marino and John Elway were making big waves for Miami and Denver, respectively. Thanks Jim for being a jerk. 9. Reggie McKenzie - drafted by Buffalo in 1972, he made the Pro Bowl and was named All-NFL 1st Team in 1973 and All-NFL 2nd Team in 1974. He was leader of the "Electric Company" for the Bills and led the offensive line which "turned on the juice" for OJ Simpson. He was considered OJ's "main man". In 1983, he decided to abandon Buffalo and follow Chuck Know to Seattle to provide veteran leadership there. Such disloyalty! I was furious when I heard the news. 10. Chuck Knox ("Ground Chuck") - After coming to Buffalo in 1978 to become their head coach, he turned the organization around and led Buffalo to consecutive playoff berths in 1980 and 1981. But after a disappointing 4-5 strike-shortened season in 1982 and unable to come to a new contract after negotiating with Ralph Wilson, he abandoned Buffalo for Seattle, where he went on to lead them to playoff berths in 1983, 1984, 1986, and 1987. Disagree with 2-3 because that was near peak drought bad Bills moves. Peters wanted a contract to reflect his play and back then Buffalo was not paying like that. Lynch was universally at the time regarded as talented but needed a change of scenery potentially and you can blame the Bills for mismanaging that when they had Lynch and Freddie and decided they needed to draft CJ for some awful reason. 4-9-10 were a reflection of a Bills team universally cheap and mismanaged beyond bad. Knox had his team and Ralph wouldn't pay him as he should have. I don't blame McKenzie for leaving because of that either because you lost a great coach because your owner was too poor. Kelly its the same thing joke of a team and franchise I don't blame players from avoiding places that could destroy their career. If you want players to play for you run a strong respected organization and these issues are not a problem. 1 2
Lurker Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 Stupid off-season thread. Thursday can't get here soon enough...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 Bon Jovi. Thankfully Mr. Pegula saved us from that traitorous fate. 1
SoTier Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said: WHOA! Someone had urine flavored Cherrios this morning. Are you telling me none of these ticked you off when they happened? I know for me Jason Peters and Doug Marrone really got me fuming. Also, to compare athletes to the average American is pretty laughable. Though I agree they should fall under and abide by the same laws we all do, they live in a world that is far from ours. Those tens of millions of Americans you mention, are they signed under contract when they quit after receiving millions of dollars in compensation? Most likely not. I will agree with you as far as the "traitor" monikor being off base. Its more like being classless. When I was a kid maybe, but then when I was fourteen I saw the world in simple black and white primarily because I was naive and ignorant. I'm not either now, and haven't been for a long time.
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