Gray Beard Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, That's No Moon said: FTR - the act of sitting or kneeling through the anthem never crossed my mind until the current POTUS said "You have to stand proudly for the national anthem or you shouldn't be playing. You shouldn't be there. Maybe you shouldn't be in the country." That's not what this country is about. That's not what many founders of this country would have believed in. Many founders of this country would have argued to their dying breath that such an assertion of federal and executive power flies in the face of the principles the country was founded upon. There is a reason the Bill of Rights were the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution. They weren't originally included and a large contingent of delegates refused to support the Constitution until they were included and moments like this are why they did that. The NFL as a private employer has an issue with your behavior, fine. When the government starts weighing in then it becomes an issue. Obedience and fealty to tradition and symbolism are not what patriotism is about. I still stand because it's what I choose to do, not because POTUS suggested I have to. I still teach my children to stand because it what I believe is the right thing to do. if one of them came to me and told me they didn't want to stand and the could give me a well thought out reason for doing so and a particular objective they were trying to achieve I'd support that. I don't have to agree with them and I can still continue to make my own choice on how to behave. I would also respect the spirit of what they were doing with the understanding that this country was made as much by people who cut across the grain of what was commonplace, expected, and tolerated by the majority as it was by those who fell in line. Don’t forget, he brought the whole thing to a crescendo when he said “get the SOBs off the field.” The response from Kaep’s mom was, “did he just call me a b——?” The next week was the biggest week of protests as a sign of solidarity. If people would just shut up about it, it will fade away. However, the NFL is losing an opportunity to encourage help and healing for a situation that most people believe to be a genuine societal inequity. 1
HappyDays Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, That's No Moon said: All the media outlets are. All of them. On every side. No doubt. Any press is good press. They've mastered the art of making the NFL a year round institution. There is no football news at all right now but everyone is talking about the NFL's latest controversy. I don't think that's an accident.
Kwai San Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m sure this will go over well with the NFLPA. My first thought too........that the the 100% team protest......fine the entire team and forfeit 4 games??? Think not!
El Guapo Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: 13 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: Their "message" is our constitutionally guaranteed right to freedom of speech/expression. If we don't support that, there was no need to fight Nazi Germany in WWII, or the USSR for 50 years during the Cold War. You do realize that the Constitution guarantees the right to freedom of speech from government suppression, right? It does not apply to private employment.
frostbitmic Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It dates back to the fevered patriotism of the WWI era "google search on "national anthem sporting event history" found this site, (http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/2003-02-28-flagprotest.shtml) which had this info:It is generally accepted that its first appearance during a sporting event was the 1918 World Series. To demonstrate major league patriotism, baseball teams had the players march in formation during pre-game military drills while carrying bats on their shoulders. During the seventh-inning stretch of game one, when the band spontaneously began to play the "Star Spangled Banner," the Cubs and Red Sox players stood at attention facing the centerfield flag pole. The crowd sang along and applauded when the singing ended. " I don't think 100 yr old tradition could be "sun-setted" by the NFL at the current time in the current climate without huge controversy I want to see this happen, have the players march with AK-47's instead of baseball bats on their shoulders ... 'Murica.
That's No Moon Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, Gray Beard said: If people would just shut up about it, it will fade away. However, the NFL is losing an opportunity to encourage help and healing for a situation that most people believe to be a genuine societal inequity. You know, I don't really want people to shut up about it. I'd really like for people to start acting like adults and realize that they don't need to like or agree with every single thing that everyone else does. Have an adult, nuanced conversation about things. Nothing is black and white yet we continue to try to force everything into those two columns. I don't agree with the tiki torch waving guys in Charlottesville either but I recognize their right to do what they do. I don't understand when this became so difficult for so many people to wrap their heads around and both the right and the left are hugely guilty of the problem. I know, I'm asking for a lot. 1
KingBoots8 Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 Wouldn’t the easiest way to avoid any issue at all be to simply play the anthem before the players enter the field? I mean, sure, it’s “less patriotic” but at the same time it eliminates the controversy entirely. Uncle Sam won’t send checks to the NFL anymore (or they won’t be as lucrative) but now it’s done.
HappyDays Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Gray Beard said: However, the NFL is losing an opportunity to encourage help and healing for a situation that most people believe to be a genuine societal inequity. The NFL doesn't care about social inequality. It doesn't care about breast cancer. It doesn't care about the military. It doesn't care about player safety. It only cares about the bottom line. 4 1
That's No Moon Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, frostbitmic said: I want to see this happen, have the players march with AK-47's instead of baseball bats on their shoulders ... 'Murica. Given where so many current MLB players come from the comments on that would be highly entertaining and tragically awful at the same time.
Sky Diver Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, HappyDays said: The NFL doesn't care about social inequality. It doesn't care about breast cancer. It doesn't care about the military. It doesn't care about player safety. It only cares about the bottom line. And I’m guessing that if you go into any corporate lobby you won’t see a portrait of Karl Marx. Edited July 19, 2018 by Sky Diver
The Wiz Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, frostbitmic said: I want to see this happen, have the players march with AK-47's instead of baseball bats on their shoulders ... 'Murica. That would be very unpatriotic since the the army doesn't use ak's but M16's.
B-Man Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: LOL.....................but what about all the "outrage" Who can we blame ? ? ?
Clemfield2622 Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, B-Man said: Seems to be a common theme here. I wasn't trying to be subtle, so congrats for figuring it out. Simple fact, the owners (and the league) think they should be able to control all aspects of the players lives. The players want to use their platform to advance what they believe to be an important social message. This is a message their bosses don't agree with. It's become a political issue because part of this country thinks you should be able to tell them to "shut up and play" and another part thinks you shouldn't.
cage Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said: If these players cared so much about making a difference why don't they go out and do something about it then. Taking a knee or raising a fist doesn't do anything for a cause they are protesting. Why don't they hit the streets and attempt to make a change first hand. I know some of these guys do but the majority of them would just rather take a knee just to start a controversy. If there is a problem one of these guys want fixed they should go out and help try to fix it because taking a knee won't solve any issue. In fact all it does it create a bigger issue and divide people even further. A great many of them do, starting with Colin Kaepernick... oh and BTW, so does Marshawn Lynch. There's a spectrum of behavior across the NFL just like any other segment of society. The problem is trying to paint them with one brush and thinking that they're all a bunch of self-consumed prima donnas. Many of them give their time, efforts and money heavily back into the neighborhoods they grew up in and the cities they play in. 1
That's No Moon Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: And I’m guessing that if you go into any corporate lobby you won’t see any portraits of Karl Marx. and I'm equally doubting that more than 0.5% of the people who walked by would recognize him if they did.
The Wiz Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, KingBoots8 said: Wouldn’t the easiest way to avoid any issue at all be to simply play the anthem before the players enter the field? I mean, sure, it’s “less patriotic” but at the same time it eliminates the controversy entirely. Uncle Sam won’t send checks to the NFL anymore (or they won’t be as lucrative) but now it’s done. The NFL probably makes a buttload of money just for playing the anthem and having military commercials during the broadcast. The fact that the anthem is almost never shown on TV unless someone is kneeling shows you how little it means to the NFL on a large scale though. I feel like they are just trying to make an example of players to let them know who's in charge before they lose control. Edited July 19, 2018 by The Wiz
Kmart128 Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Buddy Hix said: But the president of the Cards can endorse Kavanaugh...got it. I mean he isn't doing it on company time... Players are allowed to have their opinions. But they shouldn't be protesting when they are at work. Like any other job. Edited July 19, 2018 by Kmart128 1
Zebrastripes Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, cage said: A great many of them do, starting with Colin Kaepernick... oh and BTW, so does Marshawn Lynch. There's a spectrum of behavior across the NFL just like any other segment of society. The problem is trying to paint them with one brush and thinking that they're all a bunch of self-consumed prima donnas. Many of them give their time, efforts and money heavily back into the neighborhoods they grew up in and the cities they play in. I know some of them do but I would say that group is the minority of the protesters.
frostbitmic Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, The Wiz said: That would be very unpatriotic since the the army doesn't use ak's but M16's. Kalashnikov's perhaps ?
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